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SCE Rate Plans changing 3/1/19?
- Thread starter andy92782
- Start date
Wow. That is pitchforks and torches kind of money if a lot of people have similar increases.
This is why in PG&E territory, I'm hesitant to switch off my grandfathered E-6 to EV-A, even though I've calculated that the latter may already be cheaper by a smidge for me. E-6's phase-out over the next four years has already been agreed, and they've already codified how the TOU periods will shift or not during the phase out. EV-A is cheaper at the moment, but next year they could eliminate it or completely muck with it to their advantage.
The only thing they could do to E-6 is raise the price points, not the structure - but they are constantly raising the price points for all the rate schedules about the same amount, so those are a wash more or less.
TOU-D-Prime was designed for customers with on-site storage systems (e.g. Powerwall) or EV. It offers the lowest off-peak rates of $0.12 - $0.13 except 4-9PM. If you can cover all your peak usage with on site storage, you have a great rate the rest of the time. True, the return on solar generated off-peak is significantly less, but this rate is much better than TOD-D-4-9 or TOU-D-5-8 if you have EV or other heavy usage like a pool pump. Depending on solar panel orientation, once Daylight Saving time starts, you may still be generating a good amount into the peak. For the first two months starting in March, enrollment will be open to anyone, but after that only customers who attest to having EV or on-site storage systems can sign up for it.
Man, it is tough digging thru CPUC documents, but I think this is the desicion: http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M248/K308/248308326.PDF
But it just references prior actions (without a nice appendix or anything helpful).
I think this is the document that defines the 5 year grandfathering for existing solar customers section 3.3.3.3:
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M172/K782/172782737.PDF#page59
3.3.3.3 Terms of Legacy TOU Periods Adopted in this Decision
The following terms and conditions apply to the grandfathering measures adopted in this decision.
Customer Eligibility: Applies to (a) residential customers with on-site solar systems, who opt-in to a TOU tariff prior to the Grace Period End Date as defined in the next bullet and (b) non-residential customers. This transition does not apply to customers who are already permitted to stay on a TOU rate for five years pursuant to D.16-01-044.
Eligibility Grace Period End Date:
o Schools: December 31, 2017
o All Others: July 31, 2017
System Eligibility: A system for which (i) an initial interconnection application is filed no later than January 31, 2017 and (ii) the interconnection applications, including final building inspection, is completed at any time prior to the Grace Period End Date is eligible. The system must be designed to offset at least 15% of the customer’s current annual load.
Duration:
o For residential systems, this transition mitigation measure continues for 5 years after issuance of a permission to operate. In no event shall the duration continue beyond July 31, 2022.
I haven’t found the “RSC Settlement” document that has the additional info on the new TOU-D-PRIME.
Edit: found this that does have the rates via Google, but couldn’t find the CPUC location because their search stinks. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...s+and+Sm+Commercial+Settlement+Agreement+.pdf
But it just references prior actions (without a nice appendix or anything helpful).
I think this is the document that defines the 5 year grandfathering for existing solar customers section 3.3.3.3:
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M172/K782/172782737.PDF#page59
3.3.3.3 Terms of Legacy TOU Periods Adopted in this Decision
The following terms and conditions apply to the grandfathering measures adopted in this decision.
Customer Eligibility: Applies to (a) residential customers with on-site solar systems, who opt-in to a TOU tariff prior to the Grace Period End Date as defined in the next bullet and (b) non-residential customers. This transition does not apply to customers who are already permitted to stay on a TOU rate for five years pursuant to D.16-01-044.
Eligibility Grace Period End Date:
o Schools: December 31, 2017
o All Others: July 31, 2017
System Eligibility: A system for which (i) an initial interconnection application is filed no later than January 31, 2017 and (ii) the interconnection applications, including final building inspection, is completed at any time prior to the Grace Period End Date is eligible. The system must be designed to offset at least 15% of the customer’s current annual load.
Duration:
o For residential systems, this transition mitigation measure continues for 5 years after issuance of a permission to operate. In no event shall the duration continue beyond July 31, 2022.
I haven’t found the “RSC Settlement” document that has the additional info on the new TOU-D-PRIME.
Edit: found this that does have the rates via Google, but couldn’t find the CPUC location because their search stinks. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...s+and+Sm+Commercial+Settlement+Agreement+.pdf
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Okay the Prime rate does not look too bad. I am okay with that. Those 4-9 and 5-8 rates are pretty crazy for overnight. If you charge your EV on one of those rate during summer, it would be as high as supercharger rate before the hike.
Agreed... In fact, it almost seems preferable to TOU-D-A, at least for me. All I need to remember is "don't charge the car, do laundry or run the dishwasher between 4-9pm". I'll even be able to work from home on weekdays and run the AC until 4pm without getting fleeced.
At least now most people don't have tube or plasma TVs anymore.. those suck juice big time during prime TV watching hours.
gilscales
Banned
It's here, but you have to log into your SCE account first as it uses your data for the past year.
Rate Plan Comparison
BrokerDon
Active Member
WOW our annual electric bill would go up 33% on TOUD-4-9PM-SDP or TOUD-5-8PM-SDP from our current TOU-D-B-SDP (SDP = Summer Discount Plan):
OUCH
How long can we keep our existing TOU-D-B-SDP plan?
How could we determine if it makes sense to add solar and/or a Tesla PowerWall?
The TOU-D-PRIME may make more sense if you are charging your car at home at night. It isn’t in the calculator or on the site yet.
SCE should have had the TOU-D-PRIME ready at the same time as the other new rate plans, otherwise many of us will obviously be upset at the rise in rates for the available plans. I'm on TOU-D-A, and the switch to TOUD-4-9PM would be an increase of 67% to my annual rate (71% for the TOUD-5-8PM plan).
BrokerDon
Active Member
Our son and his wife are in escrow on a new 2,800 sq. ft. Lennar home in Corona CA with a new SunStreet 2,880 Wp solar system "designed to provide 70% of the home's estimated power".
- 4,809 kWh/year "Produced Energy"
- 9 x 320W LD 320 NIK-A5 panels facing due south
- Enphase IQ6+-72-LL-x-240 inverter)
Unfortunately this solar system isn't online with SCE yet (supposedly takes ~ 60 days to get SCE to accept).
I've attached the SunStreet solar system specifications since I know details matter.
SCE is the electric provider.
They can purchase this solar system for $11,491 ( - 30% tax credit = $8,044) ... and they have the cash to do so.
OR they can pay nothing and use SunStreet's PPA where they can buy their 20% less than current reference rate (blended rate of current rate structure) which SunStreet said should be ~ $0.153 - $0.165 kWh
They will typically be away from home working M-F
QUESTIONS:
- Would it be better for them to purchase or lease (PPA)?
- What SCE rate plan should they choose?
- Are their only rate plan choices the new PRIME, 4-9 and 5-8 plans? Or can they still select TOU-D-B or TOU-D-A so it's "grandfathered" if their solar system won't get accepted by SCE until May?
Thanks!
gilscales
Banned
Got it thanks, looks like a 40% increase for me! I guess I have to July of 2022 to figure out if it is worth doing something with solar and battery storage to offset this $1,500 + annual increase!
It's not going to 40% as the Prime rate is much closer to the D-A and D-B rate, but the tool does not have it listed yet. I guess they will start having it in March?
gilscales
Banned
Congratulations to your son and daughter-in-law. Some thoughts:
0. May be cheaper for them to shop for solar independently, but probably not a choice since this is probably mandated by new homes. If getting from Lennar, with these new rate plans also better to shift the panels to face west instead of south. Less actual kwh, but at advantageous rates. The home roof design in the doc does appear to have some east-west roof. Prob not something the builder will accommodate, but doesn't hurt to ask.
1. The answer to this was in the numbers you gave. Either pay $8000 upfront for 25-30+ years or production, or pay 4809 x $0,15 = $720/year for typically 20 year PPA. The latter is financially like taking a 20-year loan on the $8000 at 7% interest, i.e. a bad deal since they can probably roll $8K into the mortgage at 4.5% for cheaper, and they'll own the panels outright and free power from years 21 onwards. So either way pay upfront with cash or rolled into the mortgage (and that's a decision of whether they think they can invest $8K at better than 4.5% return or not).
On top of this, the reference rate will probably be higher by May due to these new plans, and then there's the awful escalator clause that ratchets the rates up 2-3% every year of the 20-year PPA, making it truly a bad deal at 10%+ interest. PPA only applies to those who don't have cash, and can't finance through a home mortgage.
2. I'm not familiar with SCE rates since I'm in PG&E, but if they are solar but no EV, the answer may be different than folks here who are solar + EV, or EV only. Riverside will certainly have lots of summer A/C use during those 4-9 or 5-8 peak periods. Regardless, they should probably buy a smart thermostat that will crank the temp down before 4 pm when they are not home, when the electricity is cheaper, so the house is pre-cooled by the time they roll home at 5 or 6 pm ...
3. Most likely if they are closing after March 1, they cannot select a plan that is grandfathered already. I think for Solar no EV, they have to choose 4-9 or 5-8, but cannot choose PRIME unless they also get an EV? I'm inferring this from similar plans in PG&E territory.
gilscales
Banned
TOU-D (Option PRIME)
Customer Charge - $12 per month
Summer Season - On-Peak $0.36, Mid-Peak $0.26 Off-Peak $0.13
Winter Season - Mid-Peak $0.33 Off-Peak $0.12 Super-Off-Peak $0.12
VS. my current TOU-D-B rate
Customer Charge - $16 per month
Summer Season - On-Peak $0.37, Mid-Peak $0.17 Off-Peak $0.12
Winter Season - Mid-Peak $0.25 Off-Peak $0.16 Super-Off-Peak $0.13
Well the rate changes do not appear as drastic as I first thought as @Need has pointed out but I guess it all depends on the hours of each tier and whether it has shifted significantly or is largely the same, I guess we will see more when the Prime rate is added to the calculator.
Customer Charge - $12 per month
Summer Season - On-Peak $0.36, Mid-Peak $0.26 Off-Peak $0.13
Winter Season - Mid-Peak $0.33 Off-Peak $0.12 Super-Off-Peak $0.12
VS. my current TOU-D-B rate
Customer Charge - $16 per month
Summer Season - On-Peak $0.37, Mid-Peak $0.17 Off-Peak $0.12
Winter Season - Mid-Peak $0.25 Off-Peak $0.16 Super-Off-Peak $0.13
Well the rate changes do not appear as drastic as I first thought as @Need has pointed out but I guess it all depends on the hours of each tier and whether it has shifted significantly or is largely the same, I guess we will see more when the Prime rate is added to the calculator.
