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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Damn, you’re good. I had an order in for -p700s @ $24.20, wasn’t hitting so bumped down to $22, which should have been good, but forgot that my damn brokerage must “approve” each put sale to make sure there’s enough cash in the account. So, even though I was just changing a price on an already approved sale, they still delayed it to the point that I missed that price as well. Anyway, long story to say that I was finally approved after lowering it again to $20.00 and got that to hit. This is the main reason why I hate selling puts, even though the premium is much better and I’m definitely interested in exercise. Still waiting on CCs. Orders in for-c752.50s at $3-$6.

If it helps I'm at Fidelity and have never had that problem, either in brokerage or IRA accounts (namely - awaiting approval by my broker for a put sale). There is definitely a check at ticket submission time to confirm I either have the margin or cash in hand to back the put sales but I know on the spot whether I've messed up my math in some way.

I have also never had the experience of submitting an order and then replacing it with a new order, and having the new order not go into the order book immediately. It still gets checked at submission time of course, but the cash reserved for the original order is immediately available for the replacement order.


Actually I'm surprised to hear that it works any other way :)
 
Indeed.

And with TSLA volatility potentially on the rise (IV30 is up 5 points or close to 10% today), its a terrible moment to consider selling options. Unfortunately, there's no entry points anywhere close, so any position opening now is just pure gambling.

I've been taking the opportunity to close out open calls, not just in TSLA, at very very low prices. Giveme lemons, I'll make some SWEET lemonade.
 
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I rolled my $650 put out to 5/21 for a $7 credit. Also closed out my weekly CCs that I opened on Friday for 85% profit - hoping for any sign of life this week to sell more.

My weekly CC (720 strike, 5/7 expiration) are ahead 67% today. That's nice. Without putting a lot of thought into it I've decided to let them ride for more of the week as I don't yet have a different position I would prefer to be in.

This by the way is one of my criteria for when to close one position or not. One good reason to roll is I'm leaving a position for a position I like better. I frequently like them both - just that the new one is better. I have a strong preference for staying in the market (fully realizing that means I end up in sub-optimal positions). My rationale being that I'll have some degree of winning whatever direction the shares go.

My choices: stand pat with my 5/7 720c currently around $1.50 (an approximately .10 delta).
Roll to the 5/14 725c (.20 delta) current around 6.50.


In the spirit of trying new things with small money and seeing what I learn from them...
I consider a bounce upwards tomorrow to be more likely than a further decline in the shares. Somewhere on the order of 680-690 at a guess -- around the middle of the BB (I use a 1 month chart - the BB range changes with the time window used for the chart).

I don't see anything strongly suggestive from max pain - it's at 700 and the put/call walls are for a relatively small number of contracts.

Therefore - for this small position, I have closed a 5/7 720c and am not opening a replacement position today. Instead I will await tomorrow and see how my read on things goes. If I'm right then I'll be able to open the replacement position at a better strike and/or higher premium than I can get today (the 725 5/14 call).



BTO 5/28 $680C - $31.50 per contract x 10

Will look for opportunity to roll and keep these ATM as soon as the June weeklies open up or they go to far ITM

Can you tell us more about this position? Why the expiration and strike chosen? Do you normally work closer to this 4 week window or this an exceptionally long or short time to expiration?
 
This forum sure is more fun with IV is high.... oh well.... back to work.

Yeah - high IV, a skyrocketing share price. These are things that make it more fun :)

Then again, with a sufficiently long range and strong outlook on TSLA as an investment, we can even like declines in the share price. Lower share prices make for better purchase prices!
 
Can you tell us more about this position? Why the expiration and strike chosen? Do you normally work closer to this 4 week window or this an exceptionally long or short time to expiration?
Yes Sir -
Bought to Open 10 Calls for the $680 strike - for $31.50 each
Normally have a longer window to help with time value - I like 2-3 months out but with IV low ( under 60 is pretty low) it makes buying the call more attractive for the shorter duration now.
With your thoughts about a bounce being the same as mine, IV being low and max pain around $700 this seemed like a great opportunity.
And because it is only 4 weeks out, I will roll it forward to stay ATM or slightly OTM for more premium each week or day depending on the environment.
With 10 contracts, I will buy to close half when they have enough profit to let the rest ride it out on the house money - while still have limits set for sells.
 
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Something I've been thinking about, and even talking about with somebody locally that I yack about this stuff with, is the split I now have in my thinking about TSLA.

The long term investor in me hasn't changed in my thinking at all. I still expect a $4k-$10k share price by 2030. Most importantly I continue to track information I consider relevant to that 10+ year investment thesis and whether or not that thesis is weakening or even broken down.

The other part of me that is a pretty new part of me (April of last year; it's my anniversary!) cares about sub-3 month movements and factors influencing the share price. And mostly more like weekly or a month range of impact.


I say all of that to say this. We've had a lot of bad news drip drip dripping out about Tesla for the last month or so. Today's news (that I saw) was Stellantis talking to Tesla about how to back out of the pooling arrangement they have as they don't need it any longer (my immediate reaction - I think they are premature, but they also have plenty of spreadsheet jockeys for whom this analysis is totally in their wheelhouse and I'm not there - I take their word for it); labor probe in Germany about the GF site; 6 month delay in first production in Germany. I'm sure that with little effort we can come up with many more the last week or three.

What does this mean though?
The long term part of me that has been following along for nearly 10 years says "it means nothing". I've seen all of this and worse the last 10 years, both concentrated and spread out, and its all just noise. The earlier days when each and every fire event with a Tesla would dominate the news cycle for weeks - even when it was a situation where everybody in the car should have been dead, but instead they walked away and got to watch their Model S burn (slowly).

Anyway - even the 6 month delay in first units won't make a bit of difference in 5 years, and probably more like 2 or 3. The factory will be at full production by then and nobody will be talking about how we could have had 6 incremental months of full production at that point.

The short term part of me though - I'm trying to weigh out whether this short term news is particularly bad (impact) and whether there is a particularly large amount of it (volume). And on this point, my read is that the short term negativity is higher volume than normal and some of it has more impact than normal (most of it is noise, even in the short term).

AND whether it matters to me or not, my belief system doesn't matter to the share price. It's the belief of the overall investor community, complete with the ability of the shorts to manipulate that belief via news and share price, that matters.

So while I do think a bit of a bounce is called for tomorrow, my slightly wider point of view (which is not technically driven) is more bearish. I don't have a target or timeframe for this view - on that I think there is more of a bias downwards from here than upwards. For those that see a spring being wound tighter and tighter - you could easily be right. I'm more in the camp that last year's run has priced in all of this year's good news and potential good news, and then more.


These are my opinions and they do influence my own decisions, and thus the consequences I experience. Not advice. I r not financial advisor.
 
This week's trade:

Sold Iron Condor +p660/-p675/-c730/+c740. I know, i know, the 2 Puts are ITM and the IC even went twice to the Max Loss situation (because SP fell to 657.70). Why did i do this? I suspect today is a head fake for the week. Besides, I can always roll the entire IC on Friday.

Sold May 14 CC 750 at this morning's opening. Half of the income went to buy cheap shares. Half is reserved for BTC.
 
Something I've been thinking about, and even talking about with somebody locally that I yack about this stuff with, is the split I now have in my thinking about TSLA.

The long term investor in me hasn't changed in my thinking at all. I still expect a $4k-$10k share price by 2030. Most importantly I continue to track information I consider relevant to that 10+ year investment thesis and whether or not that thesis is weakening or even broken down.

The other part of me that is a pretty new part of me (April of last year; it's my anniversary!) cares about sub-3 month movements and factors influencing the share price. And mostly more like weekly or a month range of impact.


I say all of that to say this. We've had a lot of bad news drip drip dripping out about Tesla for the last month or so. Today's news (that I saw) was Stellantis talking to Tesla about how to back out of the pooling arrangement they have as they don't need it any longer (my immediate reaction - I think they are premature, but they also have plenty of spreadsheet jockeys for whom this analysis is totally in their wheelhouse and I'm not there - I take their word for it); labor probe in Germany about the GF site; 6 month delay in first production in Germany. I'm sure that with little effort we can come up with many more the last week or three.

What does this mean though?
The long term part of me that has been following along for nearly 10 years says "it means nothing". I've seen all of this and worse the last 10 years, both concentrated and spread out, and its all just noise. The earlier days when each and every fire event with a Tesla would dominate the news cycle for weeks - even when it was a situation where everybody in the car should have been dead, but instead they walked away and got to watch their Model S burn (slowly).

Anyway - even the 6 month delay in first units won't make a bit of difference in 5 years, and probably more like 2 or 3. The factory will be at full production by then and nobody will be talking about how we could have had 6 incremental months of full production at that point.

The short term part of me though - I'm trying to weigh out whether this short term news is particularly bad (impact) and whether there is a particularly large amount of it (volume). And on this point, my read is that the short term negativity is higher volume than normal and some of it has more impact than normal (most of it is noise, even in the short term).

AND whether it matters to me or not, my belief system doesn't matter to the share price. It's the belief of the overall investor community, complete with the ability of the shorts to manipulate that belief via news and share price, that matters.

So while I do think a bit of a bounce is called for tomorrow, my slightly wider point of view (which is not technically driven) is more bearish. I don't have a target or timeframe for this view - on that I think there is more of a bias downwards from here than upwards. For those that see a spring being wound tighter and tighter - you could easily be right. I'm more in the camp that last year's run has priced in all of this year's good news and potential good news, and then more.


These are my opinions and they do influence my own decisions, and thus the consequences I experience. Not advice. I r not financial advisor.
For those of you on this thread who have made a crap ton of money investing in Tesla during the tough times, I hope you pat yourself on the back for having the conviction. Two things can be true… Tesla is the future but it’s going to be a grind and messy and filled with noise … it’s going to be crazy. It’s not a guarantee that they will dominate the future as much as we all think. I anticipate the stock will be sideways for a while … and my time horizon for exit or seeing how much I socked away is when giga texas is where Shanghai is currently. Living in Austin, it’s hard to explain the excitement happening. For me, this video best captures what’s ahead. And no one really truly understands how unbelievably NUTS this factory is going to be. It’ll take time to get there but it will get there. Few things are as much fun though in my opinion investing in a company like this.

 
Something I've been thinking about, and even talking about with somebody locally that I yack about this stuff with, is the split I now have in my thinking about TSLA.

The long term investor in me hasn't changed in my thinking at all. I still expect a $4k-$10k share price by 2030. Most importantly I continue to track information I consider relevant to that 10+ year investment thesis and whether or not that thesis is weakening or even broken down.

The other part of me that is a pretty new part of me (April of last year; it's my anniversary!) cares about sub-3 month movements and factors influencing the share price. And mostly more like weekly or a month range of impact.


I say all of that to say this. We've had a lot of bad news drip drip dripping out about Tesla for the last month or so. Today's news (that I saw) was Stellantis talking to Tesla about how to back out of the pooling arrangement they have as they don't need it any longer (my immediate reaction - I think they are premature, but they also have plenty of spreadsheet jockeys for whom this analysis is totally in their wheelhouse and I'm not there - I take their word for it); labor probe in Germany about the GF site; 6 month delay in first production in Germany. I'm sure that with little effort we can come up with many more the last week or three.

What does this mean though?
The long term part of me that has been following along for nearly 10 years says "it means nothing". I've seen all of this and worse the last 10 years, both concentrated and spread out, and its all just noise. The earlier days when each and every fire event with a Tesla would dominate the news cycle for weeks - even when it was a situation where everybody in the car should have been dead, but instead they walked away and got to watch their Model S burn (slowly).

Anyway - even the 6 month delay in first units won't make a bit of difference in 5 years, and probably more like 2 or 3. The factory will be at full production by then and nobody will be talking about how we could have had 6 incremental months of full production at that point.

The short term part of me though - I'm trying to weigh out whether this short term news is particularly bad (impact) and whether there is a particularly large amount of it (volume). And on this point, my read is that the short term negativity is higher volume than normal and some of it has more impact than normal (most of it is noise, even in the short term).

AND whether it matters to me or not, my belief system doesn't matter to the share price. It's the belief of the overall investor community, complete with the ability of the shorts to manipulate that belief via news and share price, that matters.

So while I do think a bit of a bounce is called for tomorrow, my slightly wider point of view (which is not technically driven) is more bearish. I don't have a target or timeframe for this view - on that I think there is more of a bias downwards from here than upwards. For those that see a spring being wound tighter and tighter - you could easily be right. I'm more in the camp that last year's run has priced in all of this year's good news and potential good news, and then more.


These are my opinions and they do influence my own decisions, and thus the consequences I experience. Not advice. I r not financial advisor.
This is great context to use alongside a view of the chart. Note I am no chartist and only try to understand where the support and resistance levels may reside.

In looking at the below it is clear that 2020 was basically a massive run-up after a long period of stock price stagnation. Typically a run-up of this magnitude would be followed by a pull back or consolidation period. You can see the drop to ~540 that took place in early March and a continued consolidation that seems to be flirting with the 150MA. Knowing that Tesla will be much larger in 2022 than present gives me confidence that our downside risk is limited if one is willing to wait.

If the short to medium term belief is that we continue to consolidate for a period of time until a significant catalyst triggers another move out of this range (up or down) then we are likely to continue trading in this 640-750 range for a while longer.

I also included the 200MA as I would not be surprised to see us touch that again before we make a move higher. Note that this does mean I believe the price will touch $571, but more likely higher as the 200MA continues to rise. The last time we touched the 200MA was 18 March 2020.

Screen Shot 2021-05-05 at 10.46.30 AM.png


If anyone has a better read on this or if I am off in any way please let me know.
 
I see no reason to move down to the 200MA, we only hit it last year due to a general market crash on the back of C19 which killed the whole economy. Now the economy is supposed to start overheating...
In a couple weeks the 200MA will be ~$600. A macro move down could have us there relatively easily. Note that I am not anticipating this to happen only saying there is a fair probability (likely 50% or less). I only call it out to say that this would be an ideal place to buy based on it being a strong support level.

Correction: My next to the last sentence of the chart post should have included a "not". - "Note that this does not mean I believe the price will touch $571, but more likely higher as the 200MA continues to rise. The last time we touched the 200MA was 18 March 2020." Damn...I cannot go back and edit that post.
 
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