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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House
- Thread starter adiggs
- Start date
So, here we go again...?
Next time I buy some calls/LEAPS, please remind me not to go short against them, this happens every time
Next time I buy some calls/LEAPS, please remind me not to go short against them, this happens every time
Well, the idea that Elon selling would cap the SP for the next two weeks sounded good. Didn't age well.... Maybe looking at a +10% today.
I'm glad I rolled my 900/700s to next week near the open today. But I sold some 11/26 BCS too early - 1350/1550. Will be looking to sell more 11/26 1450/1650 later today.
I'm glad I rolled my 900/700s to next week near the open today. But I sold some 11/26 BCS too early - 1350/1550. Will be looking to sell more 11/26 1450/1650 later today.
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BrownOuttaSpec
Active Member
Did everyone just realize that RIVN/LCID isn't the next TSLA? $1117, wow. I was about to open a BCS for "something crazy" like a 1250/1350 for next week but times like these make me close out the window and sit on my hands until a drop to sell some far OTM BPS (780/880?). Gotta stay in my lane. 
I definitely have a Super Power. I can instantly make the SP do the opposite of what I post. To help those with ITM CCs - The SP is DEFINITELY, OBVIOUSLY, GOING TO 1200 BY FRIDAY!!
You're welcome.
jeewee3000
Active Member
Sorry to pick this up again, but this could be a good experiment for split rolling.
I understand your brother sold 15 out of 20 available calls. He could wait till 2023 and then roll 14 calls for a credit (same expiration date Jan 2024 but (way) lower strike price). With the credit he could split the one call into six calls expiring sooner and at much higher strike price, letting them expire worthless.
Rinse and repeat. Will take a while but if he wants to HODL this could get him out of the situation. The risk of early exercise is there, but he faces that risk already now.
I did it with my DITM sold calls from the Hertz surge and got out of all my calls with profit, splitting weekly. In the case of your brother it would take longer of course, depends how low you want to roll the 14 calls.
That 1100 call wall is impressive - I'm wondering if the MMs are simply shaking the tree up there to see if weak hands (me 
) fall out....
Very undecided what to do... actually wanted a quiet non-babysitting week, kicked my 900/700 BPS to the curb on Monday when Elon was being Elon....thought 1105 was safe for the week. Famous last words aging like milk.
On the one hand I'm glad to be in a position to have to potentially manage an ITM CC for real-world practice, on the other hand I am now convinced that fair OTM BPS are going to be my game until there is a clear direction and Elon has officially completed his 10% sale.
) fall out....Very undecided what to do... actually wanted a quiet non-babysitting week, kicked my 900/700 BPS to the curb on Monday when Elon was being Elon....thought 1105 was safe for the week. Famous last words aging like milk.
On the one hand I'm glad to be in a position to have to potentially manage an ITM CC for real-world practice, on the other hand I am now convinced that fair OTM BPS are going to be my game until there is a clear direction and Elon has officially completed his 10% sale.
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Well this runup kind of caught me.. so the point of 100% loss went way past already. Did a kind of split-roll here.
Original BCS was 11/19 -c1105/+c1205
Rolled half to 2x contracts, 11/19 -1120/+1170, $2 credit/contract, in case I can close them
Rolled other half to 11/26 -1105/+1205, credit $10/contract.
I have BPS already open for 11/26: -1060/+860 and -1030/+830. So other side of this equation has to win. that's why I don't mind rolling the calls. Even if they end up ITM, I'll keep rolling until I have collected enough credit to take the max loss..
IRA repositioned yesterday for about $4cr on each leg:
BTC 11/19 -p1100 & -c1105 (1:1 ratio)
STO 11/26 -p1090 & -c1150 (1:1 ratio)
Not a good move for the CSPs (less theta and IV), but I wanted to roll the CCs up and try to keep everything in the same week. Given the massive drop recently, I was actually expecting to get some shares back, but happy to see the SP rise back into my tight strangle.
ROTH left yesterday because not enough cash for buyback:
p1080 & p1095s. Originally sold for $22 & $26 and after last week’s drop, I expected to get put the shares. Now looking to expire worthless. Will probably roll Thursday/Friday. Crazy roller coaster.
Smallest account: closed out a -p790 for pennies to release free cash, but didn’t roll. Then made my first ever fat finger trading error. Tried to BTC 11/19 -p1090s and STO 11/26 -p1070s for credit (just my normal 2-step roll), but inadvertently BTO the p1090 leg. Damn, lost $1/sh on the round trip and the SP direction changed in the meantime, so I only got minimal credit on the real roll.
Still learning the newbie simple stuff, but finally realizing that rolling into the next week is best done later in the week after theta has burned off most of the time value. The next week typically has lower IV and theta, unless significantly changing strikes.
So, also for other newbies: My accounts are down quite a bit because of lost shares due to stupid CCs sales (and inability to buyback) before the $500 SP rise. Awhile back there was discussion about perpetual rolling CCs to eventually wait out the rise. Well, that’s great if you have the cash or multiple leg rolling abilities. Rolling each week for $10/wk strike improvement and minimal premium credit means that a $500 SP rise (like we just had) will take a year to resolve. That’s a lot more work than HODLing.
BTC 11/19 -p1100 & -c1105 (1:1 ratio)
STO 11/26 -p1090 & -c1150 (1:1 ratio)
Not a good move for the CSPs (less theta and IV), but I wanted to roll the CCs up and try to keep everything in the same week. Given the massive drop recently, I was actually expecting to get some shares back, but happy to see the SP rise back into my tight strangle.
ROTH left yesterday because not enough cash for buyback:
p1080 & p1095s. Originally sold for $22 & $26 and after last week’s drop, I expected to get put the shares. Now looking to expire worthless. Will probably roll Thursday/Friday. Crazy roller coaster.
Smallest account: closed out a -p790 for pennies to release free cash, but didn’t roll. Then made my first ever fat finger trading error. Tried to BTC 11/19 -p1090s and STO 11/26 -p1070s for credit (just my normal 2-step roll), but inadvertently BTO the p1090 leg. Damn, lost $1/sh on the round trip and the SP direction changed in the meantime, so I only got minimal credit on the real roll.
Still learning the newbie simple stuff, but finally realizing that rolling into the next week is best done later in the week after theta has burned off most of the time value. The next week typically has lower IV and theta, unless significantly changing strikes.
So, also for other newbies: My accounts are down quite a bit because of lost shares due to stupid CCs sales (and inability to buyback) before the $500 SP rise. Awhile back there was discussion about perpetual rolling CCs to eventually wait out the rise. Well, that’s great if you have the cash or multiple leg rolling abilities. Rolling each week for $10/wk strike improvement and minimal premium credit means that a $500 SP rise (like we just had) will take a year to resolve. That’s a lot more work than HODLing.
It feels like Elon’s sale is a done deal. We’re moving on. But I don’t think we’ll be testing 1300-1400. Feels like a FOMO to get a good price before returning to prior levels.That 1100 call wall is impressive - I'm wondering if the MMs are simply shaking the tree up there to see if weak hands (me
Very undecided was to do... actually wanted a quiet non-babysitting week, kicked my 900/700 BPS to the curb on Monday when Elon was being Elon....thought 1105 was safe for the week. Famous last words aging like milk.
On the one hand I'm glad to be in a position to have to potentially manage an ITM CC, on the other hand I am now convinced that fair OTM BPS are going to be my game until there is a clear direction and Elon has officially completed his 10% sale.
Which I think were a bit unjustified/overshot. I would hope we don’t exceed 1150-1200 in the next few weeks. Now, going into December that’s closing in on Q4 deliveries and possibly new factory news. So, 1300-1400 might start getting priced in before the official ER numbers.
I'm good with that, as long as we close this week @ 1101
On a more serious note, the F4's don't support the notion that the deal is a done thing. He's got tons of options to exercise and shares to sell still.
I wonder if this has now simply been accepted, or an OTC / block trade deal has been struck for the remainder?
I think the market figured out that his sales don’t really tank SP.I'm good with that, as long as we close this week @ 1101
On a more serious note, the F4's don't support the notion that the deal is a done thing. He's got tons of options to exercise and shares to sell still.
I wonder if this has now simply been accepted, or an OTC / block trade deal has been struck for the remainder?
HFs played out the news and seem to not get involved more on no news, so don’t look like a threat at the moment.
Quite possible!
I'm going to have to keep a very close eye on my 1105 CCs for the remainder of the week and roll up/out if required. I hope I don't have to. Wheel not an option for me due to tax implications.
So if the HF are out - then I guess the MMs will start to play a bigger role again. Keeping this below Max Pain 975 for Friday seems futile:
Past logic would have had us bounce between 1000 and 1100 until Friday, and a close just short of 1100. Until past logic doesn't apply anymore
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Taxes get calculated here by calendar year (as I assume in most countries).
Hmm, so rolling positions from December to January might have some tax advantages.. Or even rolling losing positions now all the way to january..
This is why I believe we need to track two different numbers. They trend towards matching each other over larger time frames, but can be very different over shorter time frames.
There is cash flow (the money received when positions are opened, or rolled into). This is an important reason for the net credit 'rule' - cash flow stays positive as long as rolls are for a net credit.
Separately is realized P/L. This is the net income from the income statement, what will be taxed on, and represents the permanent / realized results from the trading. This is the line item that can turn into that bomb hanging over your head, as you can keep rolling for credits while creating a larger and larger unrealized liability. If you are ever forced to realize that liability, such as by early assignment, it'll finally show up here.
Both are important.
When positions are ending OTM each week then there is very little lag from the cash flow into the realized P/L. This starts getting more dicey on rolls for time.
Another place this can matter are selling options with a many DTE. As one instance I sold the Sep '21 600 put back in Sep '20. I closed it in Jan '21 for a 2/3rds profit give or take. My cash flow was quite large in Sep '20 when I sold the option. My cash flow was also quite large and negative in January '21 when I closed the position (it was a really big position as one might expect from a reasonably deep ITM option with a year to expiration). It was also in Jan '21 when the realized P/L happened that the position was fixed in time for tax purposes. That very large up front premium was mine to play with for all of '20 and the remainder after closing in Jan '21 has been mine to play with for all of this year. I'll finally pay the taxes on that particular trade in early '22.
roll up my 1150cc to 1200cc for the same expiry this week, would rather earn a tiny premium instead of worrying tomorrow that would jump to 1150.
So remaining cc are all 1200cc, and BCS is -1200/1400 for this week.
Haven't opened any cc/BCS/BPS for next week yet, probably will wait till next week to do it or may take a break.
So remaining cc are all 1200cc, and BCS is -1200/1400 for this week.
Haven't opened any cc/BCS/BPS for next week yet, probably will wait till next week to do it or may take a break.
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