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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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I bought 3x 620 puts @2 to lock in my call gains and let these 15x 620c puppies run. I call it the aikido strangle using my opponents momentum against him :)

STO 14x 675c exp 6/25 ~ $4k

here is summary of my positions today:

14x cc675 6/25 ~ $4k premium
15x +c 620 6/25 ~ cost $16k (up $37k as of now)
30x +p620 6/25 ~ cost 6k (down $1500 as of now) these are to lock in gains of above calls so the calls can run as high as they like before Friday)

any tips on managing these are greatly appreciated!! @UltradoomY @Lycanthrope and any other gun slingers out there…. Trying not to blow this one aka Buttershrimp style
 
STO 14x 675c exp 6/25 ~ $4k

here is summary of my positions today:

14x cc675 6/25 ~ $4k premium
15x +c 620 6/25 ~ cost $16k (up $37k as of now)
30x +p620 6/25 ~ cost 6k (down $1500 as of now) these are to lock in gains of above calls so the calls can run as high as they like before Friday)

any tips on managing these are greatly appreciated!! @UltradoomY @Lycanthrope and any other gun slingers out there…. Trying not to blow this one aka Buttershrimp style
I rolled my bought $635's to next week $700's for a credit and another week. Already up over 100% on that move
 
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One strategy i used (not advice) in fixing DITM spreads is temporary massive cash infusion. Works only on cash trading accounts.

For example, a BPS -p650/+p675 is almost impossible to roll for credit if the same strikes are used. At 620, maybe it's a long wait for SP to move up 675+. My temp solution in this case is to find huge cash somewhere (ie Line of Credit) and transfer it into the account. Roll the BPS down steeply 1 month out to a lower/wider +p550/-p620 for credit(!) and it has a very good chance of expiring worthless or at least break even. The farther the new date, the less LOC cash is needed for the huge margin requirement. Account risk is higher, so it is not for weak stomachs.

Return the cash to the LOC when done. Interest is peanuts compared to nonstop rolling debits.

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A couple comments from my experience and naturally not advice -
Position size: agree the work to identify the setup is the same regardless of lot size. At the same time I advise a healthy respect for the risks that come along with larger positions. I have also been experimenting with lopsided arms (i.e. my prior post on having more put credit spreads than call credit spreads, and also having different gaps on each arm). This changes the risk profile from a traditional IC.

Regarding deltas I use similar thresholds for short term expirations - for me I am usually making 7-14 dte IC positions but have also done some 3-5 dtes. For those going closer to 14+ dte I am more willing to deviate from the 0.1 Delta range. Conceptually I think of this as being willing to take more risk (higher delta) for longer out expirations; my reasoning is if I am wrong on the direction and volatility of the stock, I will have more time to course correct as needed. If I end up safe, I'm happy to pocket the additional credit.

As management strategies I also favor both tightening the gap between the arms/rolling the winning leg if I feel confident, and also taking early small losses if really wrong about the final sp at expiration. Trading spreads is definitely different than trading shares or single option positions as direction and volatility impact the spread gap significantly. Lot sizes also really start to weigh heavily on the risk profile of losing arms. There are some rollout possibilities for losing arms but what I have learned is that if the sp is truly moving against you, you are going to find it extremely difficult to find a roll that gives a net credit. By the time the sp has exceeded either side of your IC arms, the market has priced in future spreads that are no longer favorable to the original spread. If you do find a roll for credit, it is almost certainly going to be for a worse strike, a larger gap, and/or significantly out in expiration, all of which equate to a much higher risk position than the original. I have debated doing this on some occasions but ultimately decided my conviction was not strong enough, and instead take the opportunity to reset my thoughts on expected sp for my next credit spread attempt.

Thanks again for sharing and I also look forward to other input.
The comment about trading spreads being very different than shares or single options rings so very, very true. As I'm sticking my toes in the water I am finding this to be so very, very true. Also the comment about risks with larger position sizes - these spreads can earn pretty nicely but they can also turn into high % losses quickly as well. The way I think about this is that we're taking something with a $0-$900 range of prices and compressing it down into a $25 range and more copies. The move from bottom to top on $0-900 is S L O W. The move from bottom to top on a $25 range is .. a lot faster.


I like this idea of having more put spreads than call spreads. I'm seeing larger premiums on the call side but that isn't a good reason to be more aggressive (certainly not for me). I think most importantly for me - it is consistent with my mental model of selling put spreads using some of the cash I was previously using to back ccp. That'll still be true, and I can better manage my risk using 1/2 the call spreads as the put spreads (or whatever ratio I land on). The margin consumed won't change - it'll still be the margin used for the put spreads.


VERY NOT-ADVICE :D

One idea I've toyed with but not tried is to roll into an iron butterfly when (1) very close to expiration (probably day of or day before) and (2) losing leg is close ATM. A present example - I've got some 660/685 call spreads that are just OTM. In this situation I might roll the put spread up to 650/625 (NOTE: I probably won't do that this week, and I doubt I'll do this very often if at all - as I said it's an idea I've toyed with and not carried through on). That is still technically an Iron Condor but the window from put to call is really small. The window for a max gain shrinks to little or nothing, while the window for a break even or small profit gets expanded pretty significantly ($5 in this instance)?

The intention behind this thought process:
- I primarily think of this as a management and loss reduction approach, with a reasonable likelihood of earning some level of profit
- i have to really like the approximate Friday closing price as I'll pretty much be out of further management options (besides take the loss, or roll out to the future). And now I have 2 directions the shares can go for a quick max loss.
 
@generalenthu
Per your post on the roundtable thread, there's a lot of shares to buy by MM to delta hedge, traders taking profits on 650C might reduce the buying pressure.
Based on that factor, where do you expect the SP to close this Friday?
I am trying to gauge the right timing to roll the Covered Calls expiring this week, mine are 675C, and 700C/720C spreads. If Friday is very likely going to be strong green and closing higher than open, I am better off closing or rolling the calls tomorrow (Thursday), rather than wait till Friday.

Others, Please share any inputs you might have here.

Those with CCs expiring this week, what's your plan?
 
@generalenthu
Per your post on the roundtable thread, there's a lot of shares to buy by MM to delta hedge, traders taking profits on 650C might reduce the buying pressure.
Based on that factor, where do you expect the SP to close this Friday?
I am trying to gauge the right timing to roll the Covered Calls expiring this week, mine are 675C, and 700C/720C spreads. If Friday is very likely going to be strong green and closing higher than open, I am better off closing or rolling the calls tomorrow (Thursday), rather than wait till Friday.

Others, Please share any inputs you might have here.

Those with CCs expiring this week, what's your plan?
I put my CC chips down at $637.50. Oops. Basically, my options are screwed if we don’t have a major pullback. I only have enough cash to buyback about 75% of them. Oh well, this is what happens when selling higher delta calls near ATM and the bounce happens. Hopefully I won’t lose two weeks worth of profits.
 
Hi all. Options n00b back again to ask for knowledge from the gods. The background again is I'm playing in a taxable account and don't want to lose any shares. I've been selling out of the money to way out of the money covered calls. For example 745 @ 6/25, 820 @ 7/02, 900 @ 7/09, 910 @ 7/16, 1000 @7/23 etc. Picking up a small amount of "free money" along the way as my TSLA shares appreciate. Once the Roadster gets closer [in 2025 lol sigh] I'll get more aggressive with one option for that down payment if it hits.

The issue I'm having is that I still don't understand quite how to optimize this effort. Generally, I wait for a strong day to sell the calls and then usually buy them back on a red day. I believe I read here about buying them back once the value has gone down ~50%. To my knowledge the value of these calls is based on how far away the price is, how long until execution, and IV. How does one usually track IV? I'm assuming once IV goes up the prices go up, no? I presume it's more worthwhile to sell more frequent closer timed calls than long dated ones once in a while. Again, I don't want to get stuck and sell my shares and with this company it's hard to know what an out of the money price would be 6 months from now.

Additionally, something odd happened today that I don't understand, maybe someone can help. When the price hit about 650 at 10:15am this morning I sold the $745 call for this Friday. Towards the end of the day when the share price was still about $650 the price of the option was nearly double. I would have thought with the share price being the same and there being ~2 trading days left instead of ~3 it would have gone down in value. Why did it do the opposite?

How are these options priced? Is it a fixed formula based on time, price, IV or is it a supply and demand issue much like common stock?

can I has helps?

Thanks!

Best,
Gene
 
@generalenthu
Per your post on the roundtable thread, there's a lot of shares to buy by MM to delta hedge, traders taking profits on 650C might reduce the buying pressure.
Based on that factor, where do you expect the SP to close this Friday?
I am trying to gauge the right timing to roll the Covered Calls expiring this week, mine are 675C, and 700C/720C spreads. If Friday is very likely going to be strong green and closing higher than open, I am better off closing or rolling the calls tomorrow (Thursday), rather than wait till Friday.

Others, Please share any inputs you might have here.

Those with CCs expiring this week, what's your plan?
Good question. Hard to know for another day. Interesting to see where we end.

I myself have 30x 640 CCs expiring this weekend. My best guess for the weekly close is between 650 and 660, but take it with a truck load of salt. My plan is to keep rolling them up. Hopefully I can roll them to 660 or better for next week.

More importantly, IMO, there might be news of an infrastructure bill that could trump the push-pull from options related activity. Who knows.
 
Hi all. Options n00b back again to ask for knowledge from the gods. The background again is I'm playing in a taxable account and don't want to lose any shares. I've been selling out of the money to way out of the money covered calls. For example 745 @ 6/25, 820 @ 7/02, 900 @ 7/09, 910 @ 7/16, 1000 @7/23 etc. Picking up a small amount of "free money" along the way as my TSLA shares appreciate. Once the Roadster gets closer [in 2025 lol sigh] I'll get more aggressive with one option for that down payment if it hits.

The issue I'm having is that I still don't understand quite how to optimize this effort. Generally, I wait for a strong day to sell the calls and then usually buy them back on a red day. I believe I read here about buying them back once the value has gone down ~50%. To my knowledge the value of these calls is based on how far away the price is, how long until execution, and IV. How does one usually track IV? I'm assuming once IV goes up the prices go up, no? I presume it's more worthwhile to sell more frequent closer timed calls than long dated ones once in a while. Again, I don't want to get stuck and sell my shares and with this company it's hard to know what an out of the money price would be 6 months from now.

Additionally, something odd happened today that I don't understand, maybe someone can help. When the price hit about 650 at 10:15am this morning I sold the $745 call for this Friday. Towards the end of the day when the share price was still about $650 the price of the option was nearly double. I would have thought with the share price being the same and there being ~2 trading days left instead of ~3 it would have gone down in value. Why did it do the opposite?

How are these options priced? Is it a fixed formula based on time, price, IV or is it a supply and demand issue much like common stock?

can I has helps?

Thanks!

Best,
Gene
All of your covered calls look relatively safe to me. If the share price does shoot up that high that quickly then you can always roll them out comfortably to a higher strike and likely extra credit. Most of us here have gravitated to selling weekly CC just above where we expect the share price to end at based on the size of call walls and any other news. Generally selling shorter dated calls closer to the money will yield much more profit than longer dated and further out, but it's more work. This week has been a bit of an anomoly so far as the call wall at 650 should have kept a lid on the price. There's still plenty of time for MM's to pull it back but if we get some more momentum then anything up to the next call wall at 700 could be ITM. If you want to earn siginficantly more premium you can experiement with some CC's closer to the price and shorter in expiration. You can pick up a lot of tips for this in this thread but everyone needs to carry their own risk.

The reason your $745 call for this Friday went up is because the IV on the June 25's rose from 40.1% to 44.4%. There are various websites that track IV and a broker will often have tools that let you track it more closely for various expiries. Option prices can be approximated by the Black Scholes formula, which has IV squared, so the IV has a powerful impact on option pricing. However option pricing is really set by supply and demand and mainly by MM's such that IV is really just an outcome of moves in option market pricing.
 
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@generalenthu
Per your post on the roundtable thread, there's a lot of shares to buy by MM to delta hedge, traders taking profits on 650C might reduce the buying pressure.
Based on that factor, where do you expect the SP to close this Friday?
I am trying to gauge the right timing to roll the Covered Calls expiring this week, mine are 675C, and 700C/720C spreads. If Friday is very likely going to be strong green and closing higher than open, I am better off closing or rolling the calls tomorrow (Thursday), rather than wait till Friday.

Others, Please share any inputs you might have here.

Those with CCs expiring this week, what's your plan?

I put my CC chips down at $637.50. Oops. Basically, my options are screwed if we don’t have a major pullback. I only have enough cash to buyback about 75% of them. Oh well, this is what happens when selling higher delta calls near ATM and the bounce happens. Hopefully I won’t lose two weeks worth of profits.

I end up opening more CC's $665-680 for Friday and $700s for next week all at terrible premiums. I set preorders before the market opened because I had a work meeting.... I didn't expect the SP to move this much. My plan is to try to wait until Friday but I am usually not that patient and I just take the lost. I have some CC's against some DITM Leaps so those I am closing for sure if they end up ITM and I will not roll them but the CC's against shares I will.
 
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All of your covered calls look relatively safe to me. If the share price does shoot up that high that quickly then you can always roll them out comfortably to a higher strike and likely extra credit. Most of us here have gravitated to selling weekly CC just above where we expect the share price to end at based on the size of call walls and any other news. Generally selling shorter dated calls closer to the money will yield much more profit than longer dated and further out, but it's more work. This week has been a bit of an anomoly so far as the call wall at 650 should have kept a lid on the price. There's still plenty of time for MM's to pull it back but if we get some more momentum then anything up to the next call wall at 700 could be ITM. If you want to earn siginficantly more premium you can experiement with some CC's closer to the price and shorter in expiration. You can pick up a lot of tips for this in this thread but everyone needs to carry their own risk.

The reason your $745 call for this Friday went up is because the IV on the June 25's rose from 40.1% to 44.4%. There are various websites that track IV and a broker will often have tools that let you track it more closely for various expiries. Option prices can be approximated by the Black Scholes formula, which has IV squared, so the IV has a powerful impact on option pricing. However option pricing is really set by supply and demand and mainly by MM's such that IV is really just an outcome of moves in option market pricing.
This is phenomenally helpful, thank you very much!
In general, when do people sell these weekly CCs? Do you wait for the common Monday morning pop and sell them at that point? Sell the Friday before? Other? Is there any known common pattern to IV going up or down?
Any logic in buying them back once they've gone down in value ~50% or when selling weekly best to simply let them expire?
I used to trade TSLA and enjoyed doing so. Now that I've traded up to hit my [realistic] goal amount I'm holding tightly onto my tiny fortune and half the reason I like selling the covered calls is for the work itself. :)
 
I don't know what to make of this, but it sounds like it might reduce the ability of short sellers to manufacture shares and manipulate the share price.

This link comes from another thread elsewhere on the forum (New SEC Rules). Following a link inside that article takes me to:

Which sure sounds like this went into effect today, June 23.


Again I don't know what to make of it, but I'm thinking that I want to be extra careful to the upside until I have a better idea on whether trading patterns are going to change.

NOT-ADVICE.
 
This is phenomenally helpful, thank you very much!
In general, when do people sell these weekly CCs? Do you wait for the common Monday morning pop and sell them at that point? Sell the Friday before? Other? Is there any known common pattern to IV going up or down?
Any logic in buying them back once they've gone down in value ~50% or when selling weekly best to simply let them expire?
I used to trade TSLA and enjoyed doing so. Now that I've traded up to hit my [realistic] goal amount I'm holding tightly onto my tiny fortune and half the reason I like selling the covered calls is for the work itself. :)
I tend to split my CC into two lots, one further OTM and one closer to where I think the share price will end. I typically try to sell the more conservative CC's on a pop on the Monday trading to maximise time value. The other basket of CC's I wait a bit later in the week to see where the MM target close for Friday is likely to be. Sometimes this can be on a Wednesday or Thursday. It depends on how settled things are and if it looks like MM have control. It can even be profitable to sell CC early on the Friday. I normally target a BTC at 95% profit, which usually occurs late on Friday. I generally don't let them expire unless far OTM as an after hours move can still see calls exercised. If there has been a big move down during the week you can roll CC's down at less % profit point to capture more premium or close out and sell new CC's on a local rise. If you get caught out with CC's going DITM on a big weekly rise (like this week could be) then they get rolled out and up a week. If they're still ITM then rinse and repeat, sometimes for several weeks on end until you can eventually BTC OTM. Although sometimes it may be better to take a loss and reset.

Typical premiums for an early week CC can be around $5 and later in the week around $2 but it varies up and down. I'm usually doing this with multiple contracts over a couple of accounts and combined with selling IC's and/or Put spreads will net around 0.5% of portfolio value on average per week but can vary 0 to 1.5%.
 
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As with others, I've begun selling put and call spreads rather than simply puts (i.e. iron condors). I've got some observations that are from getting started - what it looks like so far and how I'm approaching things.

NOT-ADVICE


My starting point is that I am using is that instead of using cash to back put sales, I am using that cash to back put credit spreads. And then, having sold the put credit spread, I also get a similarly sized and structured call credit spread for "free". It's not actually free of course, but it doesn't carry any incremental margin impact -- it does carry incremental risk (and reward / credit).

The net of the two is that I enter Iron Condors via two trades (put credit spread, call credit spread). I can get there via a single transaction should I choose. But I think of these as 2 positions - if for no other reason than that is how I manage them.

As the margin / backing for a credit spread is dramatically lower than what is needed for a naked put I can sell a LOT more of these. As a for instance - a $25 spread needs $2500 to back it, while a $500 strike put needs $50k as backing. That means I can sell 20 of the first to 1 of the second. This has desirable properties for me. One is that I can use 1/4th or less of my cash to back these spreads and in practice I'm finding that my earnings are somewhere between comparable and much better.

And as a result I've got a lot more unencumbered cash in the brokerage account - cash that I am also using for living expenses and large purchases; such as a downpayment on a house or what have you. That additional flexibility on the spending side would be worthwhile all on its own, even if the rest of this was a wash on risk and income levels.


Some notes about how I'm thinking and managing these positions.
1) I normalize these different trades by choosing a position size and using it consistently. Maybe I use $10k as my position size - that means I'll sell 4 of a $25 credit spread ($2500 * 4) or 5 of a $20 spread (5*2000). By having a consistent position size, then I don't need to watch any position more than another due to amount at risk. It also makes it a lot easier to compare results position to position.

As I gain more experience I can readily imagine increasing the position size. The only difference in setup, management, and teardown of a $10k position size vs. $100k position size is the number of contracts. The effort is the same.

2) I have mostly been using delta to decide on my entry strikes. I think of these in terms of the short put and short call, with the insurance being $20 or $25 further back. I'm not stuck on those two spread sizes - its just what I've been using so far, and I have a bias towards bigger spread sizes over smaller (larger total credits providing a larger window for a break even or slightly better result).

My target delta has so far been .10. I'm finding significantly better credits on the call side and my thinking is shifting towards .15 put delta and .10 call delta. The real point is that I want pretty low risk positions. I find I am getting completely adequate results with these distant deltas.

3) By normalizing my entry points using delta I am finding that the trades behave in remarkably similar fashion. The size of the entry credits are in the same ballpark (my target is 10% of the spread size, with actual credits in the 7-12% range). The spread value changes very slowly until the final day when the bulk of the earnings finally occurs. The real difference between opening earlier in time (5-10 DTE) vs later (1-3 DTE) is not in the credit but in the strikes used for the entry. With fewer DTE the strikes get closer and closer to the share price. A 7 DTE I opened last week for expiration this week started with a $130 difference between the put and call legs. A 3 DTE I opened last week was more like a $60 difference.

4) My exit strategy is for most of these positions to go to expiration worthless, or come close enough for a small cost early close. If the difference between the put and call options is large enough then a reasonably large fraction of these will indeed go to expiration worthless.

5) For management I hope to be able to roll a winning leg closer for an incremental credit. So far this seems to happen about 1 or 2 days to expiration. So far this is mostly what I'm seeing. For the losing leg I will have a bias towards an early close for a small loss over rolling the leg out a week, though both are available. I know that there is a max loss from the insurance but I want to take small losses more frequently over allowing a larger loss to develop.

Rolling a winning leg for incremental credit - I tend to use max pain / put call / call wall / BB type of information to find a strike that I consider safe. The delta tends to not be important to me. In fairness these have also been positions that were 1 or 2 DTE - I have a lot more info at that point about what will happen in 2 days.

6) I haven't figured out the 'right' DTE to open. I don't really think that there is one, but I'm getting a feel for how these evolve and expect to find the balance that works for me. I've done both 3 and 7 DTE ICs so far and liked how both of them have worked.


That's about what I've got so far. I'm interested in learning about what others have been learning in their put and call credit spread efforts.
Can you please clarify on your use of 10% delta.
Tesla, Inc. Common Stock (TSLA) Option Chain Greeks
720 7/2 CC at delta of 0.15. Would you go to an even higher strike? Most here seem to be much more aggressive.
 
For those having <660cc this week, what's your strategy? Are you going to roll now, or wait till tomorrow? Is it better to roll to next week or the week after?

I have 650cc and 660cc, would it make lots of difference to roll either today/tomorrow (assuming it's the same SP today/tomorrow) since it's already ITM?

This is good to see SP finally rise, but not when our cc is below the SP
 
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