Service Fraud

[Sean.]

At what point does it go from an “honest mistake” to become outright deception and fraud?

Long story short: model X goes into service at Tesla Tottenham end of April with a severe front end clunk and suspension dropping to its stops overnight.

Fault diagnosed, as faulty valve block, leading to compressor overrun, so new compressor, 2 new front air springs as they’re also leaking. The clunking, well that’s worn lower knuckle joints. 2 of them please. Total bill £3,763.70.

So roll on a few weeks…
Clunking has returned and suspension still dropping to its stops overnight. Tesla service immediate response: issue customer with a service estimate: another £1605 odd. Me: what the sweet F?!!??

Anyway back it goes on Tuesday, with me telling them they haven’t done their job properly and to sort it gratis. Call comes back yesterday whilst in service…

Service tech: errrm it appears your right front air spring unit was leaking.
Me: but it was replaced last visit.
Service tech: sorry but no it wasn’t.
Me: but Im sure, I’ve been billed for it.
Service Tech: No, I’ve I checked your previous invoice. It wasn’t. Sorry ‘we dropped the ball and should have replaced them as a pair’, if you agree to pay for required parts to sort, then as a goodwill gesture we won’t charge you any labour
(Previous call with service tech in April, we agreed to replace them as a pair - it would be foolish and dangerous not to)
Me: OK. What about the clunking?
ST: ahh yes that a worn anti-roll bar.
Me: Ok so it wasn’t the knuckle joint then? Fine…(to draw a line under this) get what you need and I will pay for any parts.

This morning I recheck the previous April invoice. Yep as suspected I paid in full for 2 air spring units.

Service this morning has pinged me a message - is now complete and guess what - they invoiced me for another air spring unit. Total £1,456!!!

Frankly to close this episode (and I’ve had similar appalling service episodes in the past…too much for now.) I’m going to insist they do the whole thing as good will. Roll bar should have been diagnosed on previous visit - not parts bingo like they’ve been playing.

Am I being unreasonable?

 

[Sean.]

Think I’ll be ripping the service manager a new A-hole shortly….

 

[Exy1]

At what point does it go from an “honest mistake” to become outright deception and fraud?

Long story short: model X goes into service at Tesla Tottenham end of April with a severe front end clunk and suspension dropping to its stops overnight.

Fault diagnosed, as faulty valve block, leading to compressor overrun, so new compressor, 2 new front air springs as they’re also leaking. The clunking, well that’s worn lower knuckle joints. 2 of them please. Total bill £3,763.70.

So roll on a few weeks…
Clunking has returned and suspension still dropping to its stops overnight. Tesla service immediate response: issue customer with a service estimate: another £1605 odd. Me: what the sweet F?!!??

Anyway back it goes on Tuesday, with me telling them they haven’t done their job properly and to sort it gratis. Call comes back yesterday whilst in service…

Service tech: errrm it appears your right front air spring unit was leaking.
Me: but it was replaced last visit.
Service tech: sorry but no it wasn’t.
Me: but Im sure, I’ve been billed for it.
Service Tech: No, I’ve I checked your previous invoice. It wasn’t. Sorry ‘we dropped the ball and should have replaced them as a pair’, if you agree to pay for required parts to sort, then as a goodwill gesture we won’t charge you any labour
(Previous call with service tech in April, we agreed to replace them as a pair - it would be foolish and dangerous not to)
Me: OK. What about the clunking?
ST: ahh yes that a worn anti-roll bar.
Me: Ok so it wasn’t the knuckle joint then? Fine…(to draw a line under this) get what you need and I will pay for any parts.

This morning I recheck the previous April invoice. Yep as suspected I paid in full for 2 air spring units.

Service this morning has pinged me a message - is now complete and guess what - they invoiced me for another air spring unit. Total £1,456!!!

Frankly to close this episode (and I’ve had similar appalling service episodes in the past…too much for now.) I’m going to insist they do the whole thing as good will. Roll bar should have been diagnosed on previous visit - not parts bingo like they’ve been playing.

Am I being unreasonable?

I don't think you are being unreasonable.

Strange that the clunking disappeared for a few weeks only to return as roll bar bushes issue.

Fingers crossed the get all of the gremlins this time.

 

[Durzel]

I don't think you're being unreasonable, I would be apoplectic.

I'm a bit incredulous at the notion that techs can only see a redacted version of the invoices, with only the labour cost on. Why would that need to be the case? Surely it is better that everyone is empowered with all of the information available. How does only the labour being visible to techs prevent problems exactly like this from occuring again? (taking it at face value)

This sort of stuff really winds me up. I don't mind expenditure on cars where it is justified, bad luck, or whatever. This feels like incompetence at best, and fraud at worst.

To me - someone replacing only one side of the suspension with this kind of fault present makes no sense at all I know people can and do replace single shocks when they are misting, but this isn't that. If you're replacing one side you're pretty much going to have to do the other side otherwise the problem won't be resolved - as you've discovered.

For what it's worth - I had a similar, much smaller scale issue about 6 months after I got my car. It went in for some remedial work, I got it back, and a couple of weeks later after washing it noticed that it had picked up a scratch that I couldn't explain. Since I had previously had the car fully ceramic coated and covered in PPF it was fair to say (and still is) that I knew every inch of it. Worse still, this scratch had been touched up - so I know there was an attempt to hide the damage. The touchup paint came off immediately after I used ChipEx on it, revealing the scratch underneath. When I queried this with the SC I was told matter of factly that "we aim to repair all damage that we notice on customer cars when they bring them in", tacitly implying that I was trying to scam them to be responsible for damage caused in everyday usage....

Now, if I had come to them with a scratch on my car - fair enough - maybe it happened and I just didn't notice. But a touched up scratch? This would necessarily mean that whoever apparently scratched my car in a supermarket, or whatever, had to also have a touchup stick on them, in the right colour for my car, etc... i.e. it could never happen.

So, yeah, Tesla damaged my car when it was in for work, touched it up without telling me, then gaslit me afterwards when I queried it, suggesting that I was trying to scam them into fixing damage caused in my care.

 

[Sean.]

So, yeah, Tesla damaged my car when it was in for work, touched it up without telling me, then gaslit me afterwards when I queried it, suggesting that I was trying to scam them into fixing damage caused in my care.

Ouch. That’s pretty appalling.

I’ve incurred scratches to boot lid spoiler and internally to central screen aluminium bezel on service appointments. As the car has patina already I’m not going for the jugular on those. But it does grate.

However I did have new ‘chrome’ grille trim installed before Christmas and that came with some lovely install scratches - brand new part - not cheap either, but scratched. Well that wasn’t acceptable. So I’m made them do it again, but required a double service visit.

 

[Sean.]

Still waiting for my call back…

Think I’m going to pay them a visit. It’s supposedly all done.

Think I want to see evidence this time. So will insist I see it whilst it’s on the hoist.

 

[Sean.]

Trust factor. Negative 100

 

[Lee Davis]

You're not being unreasonable. BTW, I had an almost identical experience with my local Mercedes dealership a few years ago. Charged me for components they never fitted. Sadly, mainstream dealers are far worse than small garages for honesty and competence.

How many miles on the X as a matter of interest?

 

[Sean.]

How many miles on the X as a matter of interest?

About 87k

 

[Leejmoff]

disgraceful, I would be going to the service centre and calling on the manager and not leaving until its sorted. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

i once had a similar story with Nissan, and I ended up leaving the car there and saying I'm not picking up until you fix it and apologise in writing. Guess what, I got an email within an hour.

I suggest you do the same, get something in writing about what has happened, just in case you do take it to small claims or similar. I've got an ongoing problem with Tesla on the infotainment thing, they closed my appointment without a fix, so I've just done a brand new one.

They are an absolute joke of a company to be honest. Another reason to be looking elsewhere next time.

 

[Sean.]

Update: received a phone call from the service manager at Tottenham just after 2pm. Basically a long grovelling apology. The long and the short of it that they have assured me the car has been repaired as it should have been on the first visit (including actually the fitting expensive parts which weren't fitted but were billed for).

There is no additional charge.

I have accepted that and their apology and will be collecting it later this afternoon

 

[GRiLLA]

Sounds like it was all resolved amicably and quickly, not sure why there needed to be violence suggested.

Be firm but be reasonable and pleasant, service staff are humans and the one's you speak to don't make policies or define their systems.

 

[Rooster6655]

At what point does it go from an “honest mistake” to become outright deception and fraud?

Long story short: model X goes into service at Tesla Tottenham end of April with a severe front end clunk and suspension dropping to its stops overnight.

Fault diagnosed, as faulty valve block, leading to compressor overrun, so new compressor, 2 new front air springs as they’re also leaking. The clunking, well that’s worn lower knuckle joints. 2 of them please. Total bill £3,763.70.

So roll on a few weeks…
Clunking has returned and suspension still dropping to its stops overnight. Tesla service immediate response: issue customer with a service estimate: another £1605 odd. Me: what the sweet F?!!??

Anyway back it goes on Tuesday, with me telling them they haven’t done their job properly and to sort it gratis. Call comes back yesterday whilst in service…

Service tech: errrm it appears your right front air spring unit was leaking.
Me: but it was replaced last visit.
Service tech: sorry but no it wasn’t.
Me: but Im sure, I’ve been billed for it.
Service Tech: No, I’ve I checked your previous invoice. It wasn’t. Sorry ‘we dropped the ball and should have replaced them as a pair’, if you agree to pay for required parts to sort, then as a goodwill gesture we won’t charge you any labour
(Previous call with service tech in April, we agreed to replace them as a pair - it would be foolish and dangerous not to)
Me: OK. What about the clunking?
ST: ahh yes that a worn anti-roll bar.
Me: Ok so it wasn’t the knuckle joint then? Fine…(to draw a line under this) get what you need and I will pay for any parts.

This morning I recheck the previous April invoice. Yep as suspected I paid in full for 2 air spring units.

Service this morning has pinged me a message - is now complete and guess what - they invoiced me for another air spring unit. Total £1,456!!!

Frankly to close this episode (and I’ve had similar appalling service episodes in the past…too much for now.) I’m going to insist they do the whole thing as good will. Roll bar should have been diagnosed on previous visit - not parts bingo like they’ve been playing.

Am I being unreasonable?

Their incompetence reminds me of the time I waited 6 months for a part which turns out to be the wrong part that they fired, then they managed to find the correct part the same day taken from another customer, bizarre company at times!

 

[Unclepaul]

Not fraud, but perhaps just an honest mistake. Service techs do not work on commission, so will have no incentive to charge you again for work already done.
Sounds like you have it all sorted out, Tesla got everything fixed, and did not overcharge you.
Good that you were on top of it, and able to explain your concern about being double charged for your issue.
Seems like Tesla settled every thing properly once the issue was pointed out.

 

[Jason71]

At what point does it go from an “honest mistake” to become outright deception and fraud?

Long story short: model X goes into service at Tesla Tottenham end of April with a severe front end clunk and suspension dropping to its stops overnight.

Fault diagnosed, as faulty valve block, leading to compressor overrun, so new compressor, 2 new front air springs as they’re also leaking. The clunking, well that’s worn lower knuckle joints. 2 of them please. Total bill £3,763.70.

So roll on a few weeks…
Clunking has returned and suspension still dropping to its stops overnight. Tesla service immediate response: issue customer with a service estimate: another £1605 odd. Me: what the sweet F?!!??

Anyway back it goes on Tuesday, with me telling them they haven’t done their job properly and to sort it gratis. Call comes back yesterday whilst in service…

Service tech: errrm it appears your right front air spring unit was leaking.
Me: but it was replaced last visit.
Service tech: sorry but no it wasn’t.
Me: but Im sure, I’ve been billed for it.
Service Tech: No, I’ve I checked your previous invoice. It wasn’t. Sorry ‘we dropped the ball and should have replaced them as a pair’, if you agree to pay for required parts to sort, then as a goodwill gesture we won’t charge you any labour
(Previous call with service tech in April, we agreed to replace them as a pair - it would be foolish and dangerous not to)
Me: OK. What about the clunking?
ST: ahh yes that a worn anti-roll bar.
Me: Ok so it wasn’t the knuckle joint then? Fine…(to draw a line under this) get what you need and I will pay for any parts.

This morning I recheck the previous April invoice. Yep as suspected I paid in full for 2 air spring units.

Service this morning has pinged me a message - is now complete and guess what - they invoiced me for another air spring unit. Total £1,456!!!

Frankly to close this episode (and I’ve had similar appalling service episodes in the past…too much for now.) I’m going to insist they do the whole thing as good will. Roll bar should have been diagnosed on previous visit - not parts bingo like they’ve been playing.

Am I being unreasonable?

My first thought on this was if the dropping was caused by the faulty air springs did it ever need the valve block and or the compressor in the first place or would a set of air spring have fixed the issue? clearly replacing the valve block and compressor did not help at all.
On the plus side at least they didn't charge any labour the first time around for the part that they didn't fit.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Not fraud, but perhaps just an honest mistake. Service techs do not work on commission, so will have no incentive to charge you again for work already done.
Sounds like you have it all sorted out, Tesla got everything fixed, and did not overcharge you.
Good that you were on top of it, and able to explain your concern about being double charged for your issue.
Seems like Tesla settled every thing properly once the issue was pointed out.

Yes, it seems that the main thing was the disconnection between the tech seeing only 1 part was replaced and not seeing that the OP had purchased 2 parts. The OP didn't have the invoice to hand to correct them. Ideally you'd have an operating-theatre-style system with all the major parts accounted for so they could easily see that the OP had paid for an unused part.

Of course, this was also made worse by the "parts bingo" with the additional fix.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Donkeys years ago my RS4 went in for routine service. They sent someone out to pick it up (left his car here), serviced it ... returned it with square wheels. Audi were absolutely adamant that it was like that when they picked it up ... and I was absolutely sure that wasn't the case (I mean, clunk-clunk-clunk when you drive I would have noticed ...) . back then tracker didn't log activity, if it had of done I expect it would have become apparent that the person picking it up thought he was at Le Mons ...

Took time to get a resolution, which wasn't entirely satisfactory. Result - Never bought an Audi ever again ...

I've also had situations where the list of faults they want me to approve, before they will do any work on that car (to be able to prove "Wasn't me") seemed ridiculously to me (if nothing else I was paying for the time to have them identified) ... but perhaps sign-of-the-times.

I've also had times where, for example, washing machine repair guy came to fix something trivial and whilst doing that the main controller unit failed (repair cost > new machine cost). He was sure "Just one of those things / timing" and I expect that was the case, but to this day "I wonder ..."