That's not how PG&E is interpreting it. They say I qualify & Tesla should have applied for the Small Residential which was refunded to $5 mil November 2021.
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SGIP Rebate Extension
- Thread starter slazinger_7
- Start date
I did participate in last week's call in. Got to speak with the infamous Victor that all the customer rep invoke as the person in charge of Tesla's SGIP. And finally learned his last name. No one would give that out!
I just wish Tesla had been upfront & honest from the beginning at sales and installation process. If it was 't going to ever happen, say it! The run arounds, we'll do it but we're overwhelmed, do you have it in writing, have PG&E notify us you qualify. They had me running around, making calls, and ran out the clock on the one year from PTO. I did the things they asked of me. At this point it's their business practice in regard to SGIP is questionable.
So who at Tesla takes responsibility for giving out misinformation? Are there CA SGIP guidelines dictating that a installer (Tesla) can only apply for homes within High Fire Threat Zones? Is each installer (Tesla) only allocated a certain number of applications and/or funds issued per category,i.e. equity resiliency, high fire threat, small residential storage? Doesn't the utility, in my case PG&E, determine the funds per the lottery for any given day? The confusion for me is that PG&E tells me I qualify for Small Residential Storage Step 7.
Interesting that anyone at PG&E or Tesla would promise application or rebate to anyone, I read that each developer has a cap and just being eligible does not mean you are guaranteed rebate money since most if not all general market residential customers are eligible, so just a matter of where you are in line and if money is there. I suspect Tesla would not even submit RRF to PG&E until they are sure you would get money, remember, there is a long waiting list. If you are curious, this website list SGIP stats by utility and developers SGIP Program Statistics, interesting to see but not sure how often it is updated.
Two weeks before my PTO in Feb 2021 my project advisor asked me whether I want SGIP and what category I think I would be in, I told her I would like SGIP but not sure about category. She ticked off a list of things like fire zone, low income, medical equipment, my own well and PSPS and I said no to all of them then she said I am eligible for general market small scale residential, however there was no money in the pot at that time, she said she would put my name on the waiting list in case one day they make money available, she also said I may not see any rebate. I totally forgot about it and that one day came a year after PTO, Tesla sent me an email asking me to sign the SGIP RRF, 2 days later I got another email asking me to sign the ICF. I was rejected because I need to be on EV2-A to get the rebate, I switched rate plan and within 2 weeks I got a check from PG&E. I did not spend anytime doing anything other than signing and calling PG&E to switch rate plan.
Wish I had had your project advisor! Totally on top of it. And the small scale residential is also the category I had qualified for. May I ask how many PowerWalls you have?
I honestly think SGIP is extremely confusing and have been given wrong information by even a CEO of a solar installer. It's very complex and I don't fault anyone for not understanding it. Pretty much EVERY single installer I talked to had really little clue on SGIP and only 1 installer out of everyone I've talked to seems to be on it. This was because the lady was the one who actually handles all their SGIP applications.
I'd say with my 10+ installer research, that percentage of knowledge is less than 10%. It's also confusing because these companies have to deal with 4 different IOU jurisdictions that ALL have their own rules. PGE, SCE, SDGE, etc all have diff requirements/rules/paperwork, you name it.
Assuming anyone at Tesla will "take responsibility" is a joke. By the time you reach anyone at Tesla, 3 months later, that person doesn't even work there anymore. As for your questions on installer allocations, ABSOLUTELY installers are only allocated a certain number of applications/funds. Tesla ran out a long time ago for Small Residential. I think they don't bother with Large installs neither.
PG&E probably has funds for Small Residential since there is still $$ showing there, but Tesla doesn't qualify at all anymore I don't think.
When I was doing my research, I looked at that link SaveOurPlanet posted and actually targeted an installer that had done some SGIP installs. Some claimed they knew all about it, but wasn't even on the list having ever applied for one. Not that I'll get my rebate (still praying it'll come in and some of us aren't even getting free batteries!), but it's a mess and a horrid experience overall due to no idea if it'll happen, really long wait, no one is ever reachable at CVRP, etc.
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I agree with @sunwarriors, I think the SGIP process is complicated, and very few folks involved read the rules, and follow the complex allocation groups that often have changed size. As a result there are more than a few sources of bad information out there. I encourage anyone who is considering SGIP to visit the site mentioned above, and learn the details- before starting the process of hiring a contractor and installing a system.
While it is too late for some, I will say that our third party installer made the whole SGIP quite straightforward. They had a subcontractor that managed all the paperwork. All we had to do was supply some documents, do a load test, and e-sign some documents. No issues.
We had the rebate check within a month or six weeks of installation.
All the best,
BG
While it is too late for some, I will say that our third party installer made the whole SGIP quite straightforward. They had a subcontractor that managed all the paperwork. All we had to do was supply some documents, do a load test, and e-sign some documents. No issues.
We had the rebate check within a month or six weeks of installation.
All the best,
BG
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
SGIP is a bureaucratic mess and you need someone knowledgeable to navigate the process for you.
Tesla is not that somebody. We realized that early on and chose an experienced third party installer for exactly that reason.
It was still a complicated mess. I got my check a month ago for a contract I signed in August 2020.
Tesla is not that somebody. We realized that early on and chose an experienced third party installer for exactly that reason.
It was still a complicated mess. I got my check a month ago for a contract I signed in August 2020.
I think the problem is that "SGIP" isn't a single program. It has like 4 different pieces all potentially affecting residential ESS installs. Things get even more complex with non-residential. Then, each IOU is asked to administrate SGIP in their coverage area, which means an experience in SCE territory may not be the same as in PG&E territory.
I can't remember where I posted before, but my previous post about SGIP (if I you can find it) has more info than what I'm typing here. So if you ignore the IOU territory issue for a second, SGIP basically has these Residential buckets.
1) Residential SMALL SCALE. This was the most common SGIP for TMC users back in 2019 and maybe early 2020. This incentive only required the homeowner to get a single Powerwall (versions 1 or 2). Tesla did support people on these, but their installer cap was very quickly reached. Tesla then apparently tried to help some homeowners submit for their own developer key (that way the homeowner wouldn't use Tesla's cap). But SGIP got wise to this and shut that down. Tesla stopped helping new projects with this Resi Small Scale incentive in 2020. I think most homeowners were getting about $1,500 with this one.
2) Residential LARGE SCALE. This is the most common SGIP for the types of installs that Vines is an expert in. These are homes that get 3x or more Powerwall 2 units (over 10 kW peak AC). This SGIP is much more complicated than the small-scale. Tesla straight up said they'd never help anyone get this incentive. This is about $7,500 (which would effectively pay for the 3rd Powerwall). I think this one is still funded in PG&E territory, but not the SoCal territories.
3) Residential RESILIENCY NON-EQUITY. This is the SGIP that h2ofun got. He is 100% on well water and likely got PSPSd real hard or is on medical baseline. So SGIP throws these homes a bone by deploying a lot of funds from the other buckets into this one since they viewed these homeowners as the most needy. This covers almost the entire cost of the ESS and as far I as I can tell has no upward limit. I remember one of their webinars mentioning someone got 6x Powerwalls (they beat h2ofun!) with this; all fully subsidized. The home just has to demonstrate the need, which can be somewhat challenging. My understanding is that SGIP is making sure this group continues to be funded, so new applicants today can still get this. However, I don't think Tesla supports homeowners with this one... since I don't think anyone who posted about getting this SGIP has also indicated they're a Tesla Energy customer.
4) Residential EQUITY (aka low income). This SGIP is probably really hard to get... you need to be affected by PSPS, on medical baseline. And of course you need to have a low income. This SGIP covers 100% the cost of the ESS. SGIP wants to make sure this one gets deployed, but naturally has a hard time finding qualified homes to install this. SGIP went so far as to even create an up-front-financing approach so the equity homeowner is fronted all the cash to get the ESS and never has to actually do that malarkey where they pay first then hope/pray for a check later. I doubt Tesla would help any homeowner get this SGIP.
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I honestly think SGIP is extremely confusing and have been given wrong information by even a CEO of a solar installer. It's very complex and I don't fault anyone for not understanding it. Pretty much EVERY single installer I talked to had really little clue on SGIP and only 1 installer out of everyone I've talked to seems to be on it. This was because the lady was the one who actually handles all their SGIP applications.
I'd say with my 10+ installer research, that percentage of knowledge is less than 10%. It's also confusing because these companies have to deal with 4 different IOU jurisdictions that ALL have their own rules. PGE, SCE, SDGE, etc all have diff requirements/rules/paperwork, you name it.
Assuming anyone at Tesla will "take responsibility" is a joke. By the time you reach anyone at Tesla, 3 months later, that person doesn't even work there anymore. As for your questions on installer allocations, ABSOLUTELY installers are only allocated a certain number of applications/funds. Tesla ran out a long time ago for Small Residential. I think they don't bother with Large installs neither.
PG&E probably has funds for Small Residential since there is still $$ showing there, but Tesla doesn't qualify at all anymore I don't think.
When I was doing my research, I looked at that link SaveOurPlanet posted and actually targeted an installer that had done some SGIP installs. Some claimed they knew all about it, but wasn't even on the list having ever applied for one. Not that I'll get my rebate (still praying it'll come in and some of us aren't even getting free batteries!), but it's a mess and a horrid experience overall due to no idea if it'll happen, really long wait, no one is ever reachable at CVRP, etc.
This is a great explanation! Thanks. I guess my frustration is with the dishonesty of Tesla's responses to my inquiries. Had they for example given me the explanation for #1 above, small residential, I would have left it at that. Honestly my 12 panels & 1 PowerWall from Tesla ended up being far more cost effective than if I went with a local installer. So the $1500 I got in saving from the purchase.
I think I will still file a formal complaint as the consumer should not be given misleading information from the get-go, the allure of SGIP, continued run arounds, and dishonest responses. I have spent so many hours on this in an attempt to pull together all correspondence between myself & Tesla & PG&E How many others have or are going through the same thing? Unfortunate.
Again, thanks holeydonut for this very straightforward explanation!
I feel I've spent massive amounts of time on SGIP and still feel like it's not very clear. I considered going large scale as well because the funds there were more available when I did my install/research and getting 1 battery free for the price of 2 is great, but saw some points that were hard to do like higher sustained loads testing, a blurb about getting the refund at 50%, then they monitor your usage over 5 years for the rest...made it seem more troublesome than it's worth and the application process seems like 3 steps or something.
SGIP is annoying because for some of us, it's not like we're getting 6 free batteries (or ANY free batteries) and we are abusing the system (like some folks early on did with 2nd homes, etc). They almost make you feel like a crook for even applying when we're lowering our own energy usage during peak hours which was the original goal I think.
This is why I keep harping about my fears if NEM-3.0 has these ess credits they talk about for energy storage. If it's managed by the state and is a big question mark if anyone will ever get their rebate, it's a fail before it even starts. Federal tax credits on solar is such an easy process comparatively. The problem with SGIP is available funds vs. just deducting from our taxes where as long as you have income, there are "funds" available.
Maybe a few more years of this 105+ degrees (Europe) and more massive fires (all over Europe) will finally get folks to care about climate more and see that it's only probably going to get worse every year...and here we are in CA trying to gut solar completely for all residential.
I had 3 different project advisors throughout the project and they were all ok except with the last and best one, she followed up on every question I had even a month after installation. I ordered my roof and 2 PWs in Aug 2020 and got them installed in Feb 2021. I had never heard of SGIP when I placed my order and only found out about it later, no one at Tesla ever mentioned it and I actually read about it from PG&E later. When I asked my project advisor before PTO she said she would look into it and told me she would put me on the waiting list but also told me not to expect anything. So I never expected to get any rebate other than ITC and it was a surprise for me when I got that email offering the rebate a year after PTO.
No joke, the amount of red tape the SGIP throws at installers is insane. I purchased my system from Sunrun (nation's leading installer by volume). So you'd assume they had an internal team that had the ability to process the SGIP end to end without much hassle.
But nope... SGIP large-scale residential threw Sunrun's own internal rebates team for a loop. I had to log into the SGIP webinars and ask questions directly to the SGIP administrators to actually unblock my issue.
PG&E went so far as to send two separate "independent auditors" to come by my house and take pictures of the PV+ESS to prove they were in fact on my wall and not just my installer (again, a public traded company) trying to con the state out of funds. I even had to turn every single load on my house on for 60 minutes to prove my house could consume 15 kW continuously. And even after all this, SGIP asked Sunrun to produce telemetry from the Powerwalls, which required Sunrun to contact Tesla through a weird channel that Sunrun didn't initially know about.
The only reason I was able to point Sunrun in the right directly was because of TMC. On this telemetry issue, I was literally stuck in a holding pattern/blocker for weeks with no path to resolution. TMC = Awesome.
So, once Sunrun contacted the right person at Tesla, they sent the required data to the SGIP/PG&E admins and SGIP had proof (via pictures) that Powerwalls were installed, and proof (via Tesla) that my Powerwalls were cycling/dis-charging electricity through the Gateway that was provisioned at my physical address that matched my PG&E meter..
Needless to say, I have framed my SGIP check; because it took way too many months of pain to get. Contrast SGIP with the EV incentive program which is super easy.
SGIP = run by the IOUs. Therefore... SGIP = bureaucratic + overly-complicated + poorly executed = creates lots of IOU jobs.
Edit, and before one of you snarks me about complaining about taking free money for a Powerwall... I was FORCED down the path of adding a 3rd Powerwall because PG&E rejected my 2x Powerwall system (partial home backup) on the grounds it was not safe. So I had to add a 3rd Powerwall because of PG&E's own requirement in order to do a whole home backup. I wouldn't have even considered the 3rd Powerwall had PG&E not tried to block my PV+ESS install.
Here are the budget categories straight from the selfgenca web page. Equity resilience (high fire zone and medical baseline) is the category I qualified for and signed a contract early last year, for 5x Powerwall. I didn't use Tesla because they seemed set up only to deal with the small residential SGIP category which of course was already fully subscribed. After 1.5yrs of waiting, my Powerwalls are now in the box on my garage floor awaiting installation. My installer agreed to get paid when I receive the SGIP check. At least for SCE and my case, the limit on the # of Powerwalls appears to have been based on my peak consumption over the prior 12 months as evidenced by green button data exported from my SCE account. I don't know what the exact formula is they used.
Looking at Selfgenca, there does still appear to be budget for Equity Resilience.
Swell Energy. SGIP equity resiliency. Must be on medical baseline to qualify without having an income threshold qualifier.
Nice, I'm guessing you or your installer got your greenbutton data and it showed you using 25 kWh over a 60 minute period. That's how PG&E sizes your SGIP.
1x Powerwall 2 can export 5 kW. So, you would need 5x of them if your peak annual demand over 60 minuets was 25 kW (25 kWh measured in the Greenbutton).
The installer only mentioned peak demand but yes, I suspect I was probably a bit under 25kW sustained over any 1 hour but perhaps SCE rounds up (>20 - 25) would require 5.
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