Shocking Steering Vibration.

[Peteski]

Ha. Yes, panel fit, or lack of it gave the 2020 I had an air of character

I was going to change it for a Model Y but just about every review has said poor the ride quality is. Y would be perfect for me TBH. But even the sales guy at the showroom told me to stick with the M3! So how do you find it by comparison?

I wouldn't take much notice of the reviews. The ride quality on our Y is fine (base 19" wheels). It is slightly firmer than the 3, but it's not harsh at all. It's basically what you would expect had you not read all those click-bait reviews! Just note that on delivery they often come with the tyre pressures set to 50 psi instead of the recommended 42 psi. I drove mine home like that and it was still okay, although dropping to 42 psi was a significant improvement. I might experiment with slightly lower pressures as we are mostly travelling light, but the ride is not an issue.

As for the driving experience, the Y is surprisingly different in character to the 3. It doesn't have that go-kart super low slung feel of the 3. It's more of a sporty SUV vibe, but in a good way for a daily drive. Think Porsche Macan vs 911 as a poor analogy! What did surprise me is how quick it feels, even compared to the equivalent spec 3. Obviously the 0-60 is objectively slower, but I swear that the mid-range pull is actually stronger. My wife commented on it straight away and I fully agreed. It would be interesting to see for example 40-70 mph times between the two. I expected the Y to feel significantly slower and yet for whatever reason it doesn't. So that was a nice surprise. I think for most people the Y is a better all-round car unless you are planning to do track days or seriously illegal hooning around.

 

[Rooster6655]

I don’t know about the vibration but you have zero chance of handing it back because of those dents.

They will fix them and the Car is yours. You also need to give them an opportunity to fix the car before you can hand it back.

If you purchase and item that is faulty cosmetically or mechanically I fail to see why it can not be returned, business or consumer. Yes there may not be the same rights as a business but you can still take legal action through the court and don’t have to accept a faulty product.

If Tesla informed buyer he had 14 days to return the car that is in writing, then that alone would make a good case for return.

If Tesla are going to start pulling the “it’s for business” card all the time then that’s I won’t be ordering another one for business

 

[Apex123]

If you purchase and item that is faulty cosmetically or mechanically I fail to see why it can not be returned, business or consumer. Yes there may not be the same rights as a business but you can still take legal action through the court and don’t have to accept a faulty product.

If Tesla informed buyer he had 14 days to return the car that is in writing, then that alone would make a good case for return.

If Tesla are going to start pulling the “it’s for business” card all the time then that’s I won’t be ordering another one for business

Quite. I won't be either.

Still ZERO comms from customer services. That's more than a week and on Thursday they'll have had the car back at the service center for a whole week. As far as I can see from the app it's exactly where I parked it. Busy time of year of course.

 

[GRiLLA]

If you purchase and item that is faulty cosmetically or mechanically I fail to see why it can not be returned, business or consumer. Yes there may not be the same rights as a business but you can still take legal action through the court and don’t have to accept a faulty product.

If Tesla informed buyer he had 14 days to return the car that is in writing, then that alone would make a good case for return.

If Tesla are going to start pulling the “it’s for business” card all the time then that’s I won’t be ordering another one for business

Why? There are a set of laws that specifically provide this right to end-consumers making online purchases that does not apply to every other type of purchase. Tesla have a right to attempt to repair or replace, and clearly the former is far more likely.

If you bought a car from a dealership of another brand, where it wasn't an online purchase you wouldn't have a right to return, only to repair.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Strangely the vibration seems worse on cold days - last Saturday where the temp was around 18 the vibration was less pronounced. Can’t work it out. Good luck - mine is a lease so can’t sell it on before the term without incurring significant cost. Love the car though and would take another without hesitation.

It's not strange really, it's because the tyre tread is firmer the colder it gets.
Yes, the road surface can be felt on these cars, but the tyres make a difference.
What tyres are fitted and what pressures are they at?

 

[Rooster6655]

Why? There are a set of laws that specifically provide this right to end-consumers making online purchases that does not apply to every other type of purchase. Tesla have a right to attempt to repair or replace, and clearly the former is far more likely.

If you bought a car from a dealership of another brand, where it wasn't an online purchase you wouldn't have a right to return, only to repair.

As a non consumer purchase the "Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Sale of Goods and Services Act" still applies to business to business transactions.

If buying from any other dealer as a consumer if the car was faulty then you have the right to reject whether it was purchased online or not, you can of course accept the repair/replace and give up the short term right to reject.

Quite. I won't be either.

Still ZERO comms from customer services. That's more than a week and on Thursday they'll have had the car back at the service center for a whole week. As far as I can see from the app it's exactly where I parked it. Busy time of year of course.

I don't blame you wanting to reject the car as its easier to do now than wait, previously I had similar issues and was looking at taking action too due to their incompetence fortunately after 6 months I had delivery day issues resolved, not ideal and not competent at all. That was nearly over 2 years ago and I think they have improved some what marginally.

As a business purchase the "Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Sale of Goods and Services Act" still applies to business to business transactions, I think this should cover the faulty steering and the dent which isn't acceptable for a new car.

Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

www.e-lawresources.co.uk

Sale of Goods Act 1979

The relevant parts of s.14 are as follows:

(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.​

 

[GRiLLA]

As a non consumer purchase the "Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Sale of Goods and Services Act" still applies to business to business transactions.

If buying from any other dealer as a consumer if the car was faulty then you have the right to reject whether it was purchased online or not, you can of course accept the repair/replace and give up the short term right to reject.



I don't blame you wanting to reject the car as its easier to do now than wait, previously I had similar issues and was looking at taking action too due to their incompetence fortunately after 6 months I had delivery day issues resolved, not ideal and not competent at all. That was nearly over 2 years ago and I think they have improved some what marginally.

As a business purchase the "Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Sale of Goods and Services Act" still applies to business to business transactions, I think this should cover the faulty steering and the dent which isn't acceptable for a new car.

Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

www.e-lawresources.co.uk

Sale of Goods Act 1979

The relevant parts of s.14 are as follows:

(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.​

Under the Sale of Good Act for B2B transactions you do not have an automatic right to refund, it would normally be expected that the vendor is given an opportunity to repair or replace. This is where is differs from consumer law.

 

[NewbieT]

Quite. I won't be either.

Still ZERO comms from customer services. That's more than a week and on Thursday they'll have had the car back at the service center for a whole week. As far as I can see from the app it's exactly where I parked it. Busy time of year of course.

Have you written to Tesla?

 

[nunp]

It's not strange really, it's because the tyre tread is firmer the colder it gets.
Yes, the road surface can be felt on these cars, but the tyres make a difference.
What tyres are fitted and what pressures are they at?

Stock Michelin tyres and I’ve dropped the pressures to 42 psi to allow for a more comfortable car ride. To be fair it made no difference to the vibration 42 or 44 psi. But you are right on reflection - tyres are firmer when cold.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Stock Michelin tyres and I’ve dropped the pressures to 42 psi to allow for a more comfortable car ride. To be fair it made no difference to the vibration 42 or 44 psi. But you are right on reflection - tyres are firmer when cold.

Also, if you think the Model 3 is bad for this, try the Model Y. Even more of the road surface transmitted into the steering wheel/cabin with this model. Factory suspension is a weakness on these cars it has to be said, but there are still worse cars out there to be fair.

 

[nunp]

Also, if you think the Model 3 is bad for this, try the Model Y. Even more of the road surface transmitted into the steering wheel/cabin with this model. Factory suspension is a weakness on these cars it has to be said, but there are still worse cars out there to be fair.

Good to know that it’s me not the car that is being overly sensitive to this.

 

[Rooster6655]

Quite. I won't be either.

Still ZERO comms from customer services. That's more than a week and on Thursday they'll have had the car back at the service center for a whole week. As far as I can see from the app it's exactly where I parked it. Busy time of year of course.

Just wondering have you had any luck getting your car returned?

 

[Durzel]

I don’t know about the vibration but you have zero chance of handing it back because of those dents.

They will fix them and the Car is yours. You also need to give them an opportunity to fix the car before you can hand it back.

As an aside I also know to my own detriment when I ran a business that your rights are an absolute fraction as a business compared to being a consumer.

Aren't people buying it through their business trying to have their cake and eat it? You get a better deal financially by putting it through the business, and one of the trade-offs for that is diminshed consumer protections.

 

[Durzel]

Well I won't be taking the car back. I've told them that if & when I get a refund, I'll order (or should I say my wife AKA a proverbial consumer & not business) a new one. But a test drive first me thinks.

This is interesting: Slight vibration in steering wheel above 25 MPH

I get that it sucks, and I'd feel the same, BUT (and it's a small but) if this stuff had been spotted during PDI - which Tesla is notoriously terrible at, if they do it at all - then you'd be none the wiser, apart from the steering vibration issue.

I can't really spot an awful lot in that photo, but not doubting you saying that there are blemishes. Taken as a whole though, it sortof reads like buyers remorse to me - i.e. the vibration has taken the shine off and you've subsequently gone hunting for anything to reject the car, you've basically fallen out of love with it and it's good as written off in your head.

That said - having to pick a car up in the pouring rain is just ridiculous, as experiences go. I don't care how agile Tesla wants to be, there should be a minimum standard of handover.

 

[Pink Duck]

The vibration issue as described sounded very similar to what I experienced with my own after new tyres, which turned out to be a combination between wheel misalignment and badly balanced wheels (original weights not removed, some adhesively attached over existing). Also it took me a while to recall that the road sensation when new was similar to that after new tyres, i.e. very sensitive feedback through steering wheel (at recommended pressures). Hopefully Tesla can sort out alignment and balancing for you if requesting app service, which is worth a try first if stuck with vehicle.

 

[Rooster6655]

Aren't people buying it through their business trying to have their cake and eat it? You get a better deal financially by putting it through the business, and one of the trade-offs for that is diminshed consumer protections.

The main benefit for directors would be the tax write off in year 1 but with the high resale values it would mean only delaying any tax benefits as these become due when the car is sold, you can claim expenses but this is limited with a Tesla and mine was just tyres/charging/insurance for 2.5 years, @WannabeOwner has explained this well in the past.

Now that I think about it with higher residual values with some rough calculations it probably would have been beneficial for me to have claimed 45p per mile over 25k miles

+£11k reimbursed for mileage
-6k depreciation/expenses
=
+£5k

vs the company car option
Corporation tax saving of 19% of 5k depreciation/expenses (adjusted for vat) £900
BIK cost £600
= +£350

So in at a rough estimate I would have been better off to buy the car personally by about £4k+, this is of course just a rough estimate.

 

[Jason71]

The main benefit for directors would be the tax write off in year 1 but with the high resale values it would mean only delaying any tax benefits as these become due when the car is sold, you can claim expenses but this is limited with a Tesla and mine was just tyres/charging/insurance for 2.5 years, @WannabeOwner has explained this well in the past.

Now that I think about it with higher residual values with some rough calculations it probably would have been beneficial for me to have claimed 45p per mile over 25k miles

+£11k reimbursed for mileage
-6k depreciation/expenses
=
+£5k

vs the company car option
Tax saving of 19% of 5k depreciation/expenses (adjusted for vat)
BIK cost £600
= +£350

So in at a rough estimate I would have been better off to buy the car personally by about £4k+, this is of course just a rough estimate.

looks like you are basing this on a cash purchase rather than lease but if that is the case then the money used to purchase the car as a personal purchase has had either income tax paid on it or corporation tax + dividend tax which you are not taking into account. Even if you lease you still need to account for tax paid on the money used for the lease payments.
When did my calculations I started from £X in the company bank account and what would happen if I used them to finance a car through the company or took them as personal income then financed a car as a personal purchase. Given my company claimable mileage is low and BiK was 0 -1% the company option was a no brainer.
The first year write off is nice but ultimately you pay the same corporation tax in the end so the benefit is based on whether you have something else productive to do with the money in the mean time.

 

[Rooster6655]

looks like you are basing this on a cash purchase rather than lease but if that is the case then the money used to purchase the car as a personal purchase has had either income tax paid on it or corporation tax + dividend tax which you are not taking into account. Even if you lease you still need to account for tax paid on the money used for the lease payments.
When did my calculations I started from £X in the company bank account and what would happen if I used them to finance a car through the company or took them as personal income then financed a car as a personal purchase. Given my company claimable mileage is low and BiK was 0 -1% the company option was a no brainer.
The first year write off is nice but ultimately you pay the same corporation tax in the end so the benefit is based on whether you have something else productive to do with the money in the mean time.

If you don’t have the cash in the bank to buy the car personally, can’t claim many miles and needed to take the money out of the company then that’s a different situation that you probably benefit from.

I didn’t need to take the money out of the company so in my case I would not be considering corp and div tax in the calculation and would have been better off by the £4K.

Resale values and future mileage isn’t guaranteed so something to consider I guess next time.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Aren't people buying it through their business trying to have their cake and eat it? You get a better deal financially by putting it through the business,

Personally I don't understand why this is what it is. Government need to pump-prime transition to BEV (that bit I do get!) but they have chosen to do it through the Company Car route rather than, for example, some sort of subsidy to private individuals. I have no idea why Company Car route is more beneficial than Individual Route. Does pump-prime one / the other get more cars on the road, faster?

I would have been better off to buy the car personally by about £4k+

If you don’t have the cash in the bank to buy the car personally

Are you taking into account either the cost of personal borrowing or the "lost opportunity cost" of tying the money up?

so the benefit is based on whether you have something else productive to do with the money in the mean time.

Can the first-year-write-off money be used to make a disruptive member of my team redundant and then the massive improvement in turnover used to pay the tax-on-profit 3 years later?

Asking for a friend

 

[Durzel]

I guess, perhaps, that businesses are more likely to rotate their cars out after 3 years, leading to more second hand EVs on the market, whereas consumers might hang on to them for longer? I dunno, I've got nothing really.