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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Since it is not a cash cow, it is a cash vacuum going to get cash into a solar business-- which is hard to do.
The only negative from the CC, was why TM still wants to make M3 when there is a huge demand and profit for 100kwh batteries and cars. I wonder if it will be asked, why make cars, when TE revenue gets booked?

Because there is even huger demand for Model 3, and likely more absolute profit due to the greater volume, and POSSIBLY even more GM to be had on Model 3 (particularly the higher versions). Y'know, that and the 400,000 customers lined up to buy one. Can't keep them waiting forever.

Don't worry, they'll get the 100kWh packs going too. Tesla has some 13,000 employees. They're capable (and have demonstrated such on many occasions) of juggling more than one project at a time.
 
Here is how Tesla might be profitable in Q4 without zev credits...

2.5B in revenue (25.5k deliveries and higher mix of P100Ds and Model X)
30% GM

that would increase gross profit from $637M to $750M for a difference of $113M coming close to making up for $139M in zev credits. Although we will have higher R&D.

Here is a breakdown of my estimates in a historical context.
tsla financials

Also doesn't tesla have to deliver autopilot in december or they can't recognize autopilot revenue????
 
Looking a few weeks ahead, I would anticipate some kind of sell off for TSLA stock in mid November once the merger completes simply because many of us are buying SCTY merely for the short term profit potential. The shares will convert to TSLA and will then be sold unless additional short term profit is looking likely by holding onto those TSLA shares. I, for one, will have more shares of TSLA than I'm comfortable with in the long term, even though I love the long term outlook for TSLA.
 
Looking a few weeks ahead, I would anticipate some kind of sell off for TSLA stock in mid November once the merger completes simply because many of us are buying SCTY merely for the short term profit potential. The shares will convert to TSLA and will then be sold unless additional short term profit is looking likely by holding onto those TSLA shares. I, for one, will have more shares of TSLA than I'm comfortable with in the long term, even though I love the long term outlook for TSLA.
If you love the long term outlook, why would you sell?

Most of us are looking at the SCTY arbitrage as a way to gain additional TSLA shares for less money. The additional short-ish term gain is the launch of Model 3, which if executed on time and under budget (as management is guiding for but the market disbelieves) will send things skyward.
 
Looking at Gross Margin, can someone help me make an apples to apples comparison?

Q2 letter gave a GM of 21.9% - non-GAAP and excluding ZEV (which we now learned was just $64,000 in Q2 - no wonder Elon was so pissed).

Q3 gives 2 different figures:
1. 25.0% - non-GAAP excluding ZEV and SBC
2. 23.3% (140 bp increase) - non-GAAP excluding ZEV

I'm assuming the correct analysis here is that the 23.3% GM is the number we should compare to the 21.9% but want to confirm. Does anyone know if the 21.9% GM number excluded ZEV and SBC, or just excluded ZEV?

This is relevant for Q4 guidance. They guided to 23.9% - 24.9% GM by Q4 in the Q2 letter (2-3% increase from 21.9%) and maintained that guidance. It sounds like we should expect a 0.6% - 1.6% improvement in Q4.
I think it should be the 25.0% number. When talking about non-GAAP, SBC has always been excluded.
 
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If you love the long term outlook, why would you sell?

Most of us are looking at the SCTY arbitrage as a way to gain additional TSLA shares for less money. The additional short-ish term gain is the launch of Model 3, which if executed on time and under budget (as management is guiding for but the market disbelieves) will send things skyward.

Only because there is a limit to how much of my portfolio I'm comfortable investing in TSLA. I know what it is because when I'm above it, I end up checking the SP daily. When I'm below it, I don't think about the daily SP much at all. Drops don't faze me below it but definitely do when I'm above it (like now). I'm over-weighted to TSLA by quite a bit right now.
 
Since it is not a cash cow, it is a cash vacuum going to get cash into a solar business-- which is hard to do.
The only negative from the CC, was why TM still wants to make M3 when there is a huge demand and profit for 100kwh batteries and cars. I wonder if it will be asked, why make cars, when TE revenue gets booked?

It's a great question. If TSLA was in it just for profits then they would absolutely do what you suggest. But read their mission statement and you'll see that they care more about the transition to sustainable transport than making the most profitable product.
 
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Only because there is a limit to how much of my portfolio I'm comfortable investing in TSLA. I know what it is because when I'm above it, I end up checking the SP daily. When I'm below it, I don't think about the daily SP much at all. Drops don't faze me below it but definitely do when I'm above it (like now). I'm over-weighted to TSLA by quite a bit right now.
Heh. Pretty sure my limit on that front is $0 then. If I'm invested, I'm invested. I want to know everything there is to know about it and be an information sponge, so I can (hopefully) predict what's going to happen, and adjust my investments accordingly. My entire portfolio right now is 100% SCTY and TSLA, in alignment with my thesis that by the time we're done riding the rise associated with Model 3 launch, it will have outpaced anything else I could have invested in.

Doesn't make the short-term pain any less painful though - I'm in the red to the tune of about 30% since I started.
 
I'm not surprised at today's price action. The same thing happened with AAPL many times, and Apple is a much more conventional company than Tesla.

Investment entities will, IMO remain mostly confused about Tesla until the Model 3 becomes an indisputable success (and possibly they will continue to be confused by solar and storage, so major gains could be years away).
 
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I'm having a terrible day, I've lost a ton of money in options. I'm completely confused.. yet I had to chuckle at the gif posted in the comments section on the SC tweet. These days will come and go. Our thesis is stronger than ever. I think I'm going to grab some food, pretend the market doesn't exist for an hour and hopefully come back thinking a little more clearly. GL everyone.
Years ago, a good friend told me about a wonderful company and a great tool "Call option" to capture the upside. I was very cautious, I abide by Buffett's suggestion: don't do anything if you do not fully understand it.

It turned out my friend was right, it indeed was a great company, business was booming, stock went up, he made more than 10 fold in a year through options (buying calls and selling covered calls, etc). Then one day, he said the QR is coming, this company always beat estimates. He said he was buying Weekly Calls and I should too. I spent a lot of effort to study the details, including what happened right after the previous QRs. I know the past doesn't guarantee the future, but it seems worth the risk, I could gain a lot of money in a day. I bought the weekly Calls the day before QR. I was so nervous before the QR. I was worried about losing, also excited about the big bucks I was going to earn. About one hour after market closing, suddenly I saw the after-hour price jumped, then within seconds it went 3% lower than the daily closing and stayed there. I knew it's bad. The QR missed. I still didn't know what's to come. The next day my account went down 99%. Lost $90k in my first try on a sure shot. I still remember how painful it was. I was fortunate at that time I only had one account enabled for options. From a bigger picture point of view, that loss didn't make a big dent in my total. Still, I was traumatized by that experience. I had to explain to my wife why a self claimed investment genius suddenly lost 99%. It's not fun.

I posted several times to warn people on this forum to be careful about short term options. I had a long post a while back and again yesterday. If you don't have experience in Options, better start with small amount. You are likely to lose it. Ideally play with the dividend from your index holding. Or play with some trading profit. From my point of view, every dollar I lost equivalents to twenty future dollars.

If I own shares, I can sit on the position, wait through the cloudy days. Or even buy more if the market offers me great opportunities. (That's another area that needs attention. Not all stocks are suitable for averaging down. Some stocks do go to zero.)

Many people check the "available shares for shorting" to predict the stock price. The stock can go down even if nobody shorts new shares. Some market makers who sold covered Calls also bought shares to back it. Then they sell the shares so they don't have the holding risk. We are talking about a lot of shares. They don't have to short anything. Selling their long shares can drive down the stock price. I am not defending the shorts. Just to explain there are other major reasons for drop in addition to the shorts.
 
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Heh. Pretty sure my limit on that front is $0 then. If I'm invested, I'm invested. I want to know everything there is to know about it and be an information sponge, so I can (hopefully) predict what's going to happen, and adjust my investments accordingly. My entire portfolio right now is 100% SCTY and TSLA, in alignment with my thesis that by the time we're done riding the rise associated with Model 3 launch, it will have outpaced anything else I could have invested in.

Doesn't make the short-term pain any less painful though - I'm in the red to the tune of about 30% since I started.
Pretty much in the same boat with my ROTH 100% SCTY and TSLA and $30 cash.
Main trading account has similar percent except almost equal amount in Apple.
DaveT's reason for the SP action is pretty inline with my thoughts except I think the US election is also a factor that's not much discussed as a negative short term factor here.
HRC wins: short term win for us company long term loss
Trump wins short term shock and long term win. I equate those in favor of HRC as Tesla bears spreading FUD :).
 
Pretty much in the same boat with my ROTH 100% SCTY and TSLA and $30 cash.
Main trading account has similar percent except almost equal amount in Apple.
DaveT's reason for the SP action is pretty inline with my thoughts except I think the US election is also a factor that's not much discussed as a negative short term factor here.
HRC wins: short term win for us company long term loss
Trump wins short term shock and long term win. I equate those in favor of HRC as Tesla bears spreading FUD :).
Cuz he wants to double down on "clean coal" and that's in line with catalizing the transition to sustainable energy and transportation..... right?
 
The Analysts are really clueless. 2.5 Billion in sales next quarter = 10 Billion/year. With 50% growth in S and X next year, that is 15 Billion in S and X sales. Add another 3 Billion for 50,000 Model 3 at average price of $60k, and another 2 Billion in TE, we are looking at 20 Billion in sales next year. In 2018, 20 Billion in S and X, 30 Billion in Model 3, and ? (10-30 Billion in TE). We are talking 50-70 Billion in Sales two years from now. I think a capital raise early next year will be the last. I'm not selling any shares for at least 3-5 years. Shorts and Analysts have NO IDEA what is coming.
 
I think there is almost 0 chance of the deal failing. I've felt that way for some time (and am loving my 150/share equivalent TSLA even into today's weakness)

I look at what happened today and can't think anything other than a "yeah, but SCTY is around the corner" reason, for why TSLA couldn't keep gains. The margin was there. The production volume was there. The news came in, backing it up. We're stuck looking at utility-scale solar muting hopes (or hype) that gutted net metering, and whatever is soon announced, will save the day.

I boosted the magic corn I had left, by 10X on Tuesday, and was out of most of it before noon. IMO, today was a price-signal on the merger.
 
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We are talking 50-70 Billion in Sales two years from now. I think a capital raise early next year will be the last. I'm not selling any shares for at least 3-5 years. Shorts and Analysts have NO IDEA what is coming.

I believe the analysts understand the auto market.

If Tesla gets to your high end projection of $70B in two years, they will be less than half the revenue of GM ($152B last year).
TSLA currently has a market cap of 65% of GMs, so they have already valued the company based on hitting numbers even higher than $70B.
 
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