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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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GLD has been down because there is general commodity deflation, and a strong US dollar. Not because there is no investor concern. A better indicator would be US treasury yields, which are now trading LOWER than before the latest interest hike by the Fed.

Respectfully you are grasping for possible reasons to be fearful i.e. you are trying to explain away the lack of a signals that would confirm investor concern. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
Here is initial indication of the shenanigans due to abnormally high open interest of $200 puts and calls expiring today. On a first glance it seems that TSLA follows NASDAQ, but closer look reveals that each individual candle in TSLA exadurated a bit in a way that ties it to $200. I think that TSLA will gravitate to $200 today. It might be getting looser from following market next week. Just a gut feeling.
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Correct. All the talk about how well TSLA will do later in the year is great and I agree. But if macros and lack of positive catalysts bring TSLA down to $180-190 level in the Short Term then a 50% appreciation from there for the rest of the year gets us just below ATH.
I continue to be a buyer at this level but let us keep things in perspective short term. It could be very rocky.

This is a very valid point.

Anyone interested in this dynamic should take a look at AAPL price chart between 2007 and 2009. The company was doing record breaking sales each of the quarters, with around 50% growth in revenues. EPS was positive and growing at about 30% pace. Nevertheless look at the price chart, we see 50+% downward swings.

Macro can very easily trump a single stock, no matter how well the company is doing.

My understanding of this dynamic is that stock moves in anticipation of future. If markets perception is that the world will collapse and then it will deduce that the well doing single stock will collapse too. So in anticipation of the future collapse it collapses right now.

Clearly there is a tremendous opportunity right in front of our eyes with TSLA in the short to medium term. But given the macro environment it's wise to play it safely.
 
this is a very valid point.

Anyone interested in this dynamic should take a look at aapl price chart between 2007 and 2009. The company was doing record breaking sales each of the quarters, with around 50% growth in revenues. Eps was positive and growing at about 30% pace. Nevertheless look at the price chart, we see 50+% downward swings.

Macro can very easily trump a single stock, no matter how well it's doing.

Clearly there is a tremendous opportunity right in front of our eyes. But given the macro environment it's wise to play it safely.


how many reservations will be cancelled with this stock market in bear direction for weeks to come?
 
Respectfully you are grasping for possible reasons to be fearful i.e. you are trying to explain away the lack of a signals that would confirm investor concern. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

1. An investor should ALWAYS look for possible reasons to be fearful. An individual should ALWAYS look for possible reasons they could be wrong. Without constant vigilance of the risks at hand, an investor stands to lose everything.

2. Philosophically speaking aside, there are actual real risks in the economy currently. US manufacturing sector is in a recession, this is a fact. The Russell 2000 is in a bear market(down 20%), this is a fact. Job participation rates are at historic lows, this is a fact. Oil and Gas industry is incurring massive layoffs, this is a fact. The Chinese economy which has provided 47% of global growth over the past decade is now turning into a drag on global growth, this is a fact.

I am not grasping at anything. There are real risks.

Now, do all those things add up to a US recession and US bear market? I'm not sure.

But to refuse to even entertain the possibility? That is not only irresponsible, it is flat out dangerous.

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To be very clear:

There is nothing wrong with buying here. There is also nothing wrong with selling here or hedging here.

Every individual has different risk tolerances, and different time frames on their positions.

Just do not think that $200 or even $180 is some magical price that we cannot go under, therefore everyone should sell their kids to buy more here. We very well may bottom here and don't go under. But with macro risks, anything can happen. That's all.
 
1. An investor should ALWAYS look for possible reasons to be fearful. An individual should ALWAYS look for possible reasons they could be wrong. Without constant vigilance of the risks at hand, an investor stands to lose everything.

2. Philosophically speaking aside, there are actual real risks in the economy currently. US manufacturing sector is in a recession, this is a fact. The Russell 2000 is in a bear market(down 20%), this is a fact. Job participation rates are at historic lows, this is a fact. Oil and Gas industry is incurring massive layoffs, this is a fact. The Chinese economy which has provided 47% of global growth over the past decade is now turning into a drag on global growth, this is a fact.

I am not grasping at anything. There are real risks.

Now, do all those things add up to a US recession and US bear market? I'm not sure.

But to refuse to even entertain the possibility? That is not only irresponsible, it is flat out dangerous.

- - - Updated - - -

To be very clear:

There is nothing wrong with buying here. There is also nothing wrong with selling here or hedging here.

Every individual has different risk tolerances, and different time frames on their positions.

Just do not think that $200 or even $180 is some magical price that we cannot go under, therefore everyone should sell their kids to buy more here. We very well may bottom here and don't go under. But with macro risks, anything can happen. That's all.

This guy is right, folks.

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Here is initial indication of the shenanigans due to abnormally high open interest of $200 puts and calls expiring today. On a first glance it seems that TSLA follows NASDAQ, but closer look reveals that each individual candle in TSLA exadurated a bit in a way that ties it to $200. I think that TSLA will gravitate to $200 today. It might be getting looser from following market next week. Just a gut feeling.View attachment 108025

You are brilliant sir. Thanks for still sharing on this forum.
 
This is a very valid point.

Anyone interested in this dynamic should take a look at AAPL price chart between 2007 and 2009. The company was doing record breaking sales each of the quarters, with around 50% growth in revenues. EPS was positive and growing at about 30% pace. Nevertheless look at the price chart, we see 50+% downward swings.

Macro can very easily trump a single stock, no matter how well the company is doing.

My understanding of this dynamic is that stock moves in anticipation of future. If markets perception is that the world will collapse and then it will deduce that the well doing single stock will collapse too. So in anticipation of the future collapse it collapses right now.

Clearly there is a tremendous opportunity right in front of our eyes with TSLA in the short to medium term. But given the macro environment it's wise to play it safely.

AMZN is an even more extreme example.

The economy is either headed for a recession or it isn't. This is a pretty binary event. If it is not, then buying TSLA here and averaging down is the right thing to do. But if it is, then buying here is a risky proposition, moreso than people think. Buying based on TSLA's fundamentals in the face of macro markets going the other way is a particularly dangerous proposition. Because even as TSLA's fundamentals continue to improve, the equity markets can price assets completely differently in a bull market environment compared to a bear market.

From 2007 to 2008 AAPL's revenues increased by 50%, while its stock price declined by 60%.
From 1999 to 2001 AMZN's revenues increased by almost double, while its stock price declined by 95%.

Now, that was in the midst of an internet bubble and a financial crisis, neither of which I believe to be the case today. So do not take this as alarmist, because I DO NOT think TSLA will be hit that hard. However, the point is, improving fundamentals is no guarantee of an appreciating stock price when there are macro headwinds. Even if we only get a run of the mill recession here, which to me is the most likely bear scenario(not 2000 or 2008), TSLA can still be impacted quite a bit. Again, in a bull scenario where we avoid a recession, now(200) is the time to buy.

Now does that change the long term story in the event of a recession? No. Indeed, AMZN and AAPL are both up tremendously even from their 1999/2007 highs. But, the point is this, had you started buying too early, you would have run out of powder when the real buying opportunity came. Or worse, lost everything before the eventual rise.

With that in mind, where are we now? At the end of a bull market correction? Then buy. Or at the beginning or a bear market(even if it is a mild one)? Then sit tight, or even hedge.

I cannot answer that question for you guys. But just know that it IS a question. Not a certainty. Something I do not see enough people asking themselves.
 
1. An investor should ALWAYS look for possible reasons to be fearful. An individual should ALWAYS look for possible reasons they could be wrong. Without constant vigilance of the risks at hand, an investor stands to lose everything.

Now, do all those things add up to a US recession and US bear market? I'm not sure.

But to refuse to even entertain the possibility? That is not only irresponsible, it is flat out dangerous.

I am aware that it is pointless to discuss courage with a person that is conflating irrational fear with responsibility, and the converse with irresponsibility, but I strongly disagree with you.

Wall Street is not quaking in its boots worrying about TSLA, that is for certain. They just want to figure out how best to extract money from retail longs and retail shorts and put it in their bank account. It is irresponsible and dangerous in investing to depart from a cogent thesis under the influence of emotions. Giving away shares at $200 because CNBC says "BOO" and letting an institution ride your position to $300+ is very much the real danger here.

The other real danger is opportunity cost. 27 million shares sold short under the pressure of margin calls is a gift of $10 billion + in TSLA market cap and the reason why it belongs to the Longs for the taking is because the short thesis is fundamentally flawed on every level. Let that get away and spend the rest of the year punching yourself in the face.

As you say you are not sure about recessionary fears. Well I'm very sure indeed about everything I just said. Pick one.
 
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Breaking major trend lines on SPX. 10 year treasury below 2%. Canada will cut interest rates today. This is not a knife catching environment. What will MAX PAIN be? It will happen when nobody on this forum is recommending dip buying or holding the stock. When you feel like it could go to zero. I am guessing around 150.00 a share if Elon begins to advertise aggressively. This may be the one secret weapon that will help out the bulls.

So my last prediction. Tesla bottoms at $150.00 if Elon comes out with an aggressive advertising scheme prior to Model 3 unveil. Good luck to all.

Again, complete and utter nonsense. Why would Tesla need to advertise when they are production constrained, sporting a 9 month backlog for X and several month backlog for S, coming off a record quarter and no sign of slowing down? You can panic if you want, but at least have it make sense.
 
Why can't the gov't create some program to help shift people losing their jobs from the oil and gas industry to the solar industry if it's really that big of a concern for the economy? Is it all because of the special interest groups and the market? I'm a proactive person and so I can't see why if the big picture is here about the future of energy, why we wouldn't help ease the transition....
 
This is a very valid point.

Anyone interested in this dynamic should take a look at AAPL price chart between 2007 and 2009. The company was doing record breaking sales each of the quarters, with around 50% growth in revenues. EPS was positive and growing at about 30% pace. Nevertheless look at the price chart, we see 50+% downward swings.

Macro can very easily trump a single stock, no matter how well the company is doing.

My understanding of this dynamic is that stock moves in anticipation of future. If markets perception is that the world will collapse and then it will deduce that the well doing single stock will collapse too. So in anticipation of the future collapse it collapses right now.

Clearly there is a tremendous opportunity right in front of our eyes with TSLA in the short to medium term. But given the macro environment it's wise to play it safely.

Having said that, I also want to add - I am all in.

If TSLA keeps trending down, I may use margin to buy more.

Different people have different tolerances to risk (volatility of the portfolio value). Everyone needs to figure the game for their own. The takeaway here is that a stellar bullish trend is the most likely scenario from here on out for 6 to 9 months. Nevertheless there is a small possibility we might go down further due to macro. Position yourselves accordingly.

PS: Sorry for quoting myself. Just wanted to provide context.

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To provide an alternative picture, lets say if someone is already over-extended through leverage (margin and/or options), then what happens if there is a dip? You can't buy more. And worse, you may need to sell to lower the leverage. That's a terrible thing to happen given the strong potential upturn right after.

Keep some dry powder available.
 
This should help:
DOT Will Open The Road For Self-Driving Cars - Investors.com
Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx unveiled several initiatives at the Detroit auto show Thursday to try to ease concern from automakers and technology firms that heavy regulation would limit autonomous driving on U.S. roads.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration within six months will propose best-practice guidance on the safe operation for fully autonomous vehicles.

Regulators also unveiled a budget proposal to spend nearly $4 billion over 10 years to encourage connected cars. President Obama alluded to that plan for a "21st century transportation system" in Tuesday night's State of the Union. The Department of Transportation plans testing autonomous cars in "corridors throughout the country" to accelerate development and adoption of "safe vehicle automation through real-world pilot projects."
<Snip>
Automakers and tech companies have a lot at stake in how quickly the self-driving and driver-safety-assistance systems they've been building get cleared for use, with some of it already on its way into the 5-star crash safety ratings that influence auto sales. Electric car maker Tesla Motors and some mainstream carmakers have been developing autonomous vehicles. So have Alphabet's Google and, reportedly, Apple (NASDAQ:AAPL). Auto manufacturers that haven't devoted significant attention to the safety tech that goes into such systems risk being left behind.
 
Agreed. Maybe more medium long term, but it will help clear a regulatory risk. Competitors that might look for regulatory relief from competition will have a harder time stopping or slowing auto-pilot. If it encourages HOV like lanes on the Interstate system for approved cars, it would help all new car sales and Tesla especially. Legally not something to help now, but it may help increase public consciousness of Tesla tech.

Short term Mr. Market is in charge today.

 
Why can't the gov't create some program to help shift people losing their jobs from the oil and gas industry to the solar industry if it's really that big of a concern for the economy? Is it all because of the special interest groups and the market? I'm a proactive person and so I can't see why if the big picture is here about the future of energy, why we wouldn't help ease the transition....

How many different jobs programs have we already had? The government in general does not have a good track record in this area as it ends up being special interest boondoggles. Look at the home efficiency stimulus program which was supposed to create jobs and reduce energy use. Incredible fraud and waste. Haven't we already had some stimulus programs geared towards "green jobs?"
 
I am aware that it is pointless to discuss courage with a person that is conflating irrational fear with responsibility, and the converse with irresponsibility, but I strongly disagree with you.

Courage?

Investing is not a knife fight. It is not marching soldiers onto the battlefield.

I having never relied on courage in my 20+ years of trading. I have always relied on intellect.

Wall Street is not quaking in its boots worrying about TSLA, that is for certain. They just want to figure out best to extract money from retail longs and retail shorts and put it in their bank account. It is irresponsible and dangerous in investing to depart from a cogent thesis under the influence of emotions. Giving away shares at $200 because CNBC says "BOO" and letting an institution ride your position to $300+ is very much the real danger here.

The other real danger is opportunity cost. 27 million shares sold short under the pressure of margin calls is a gift of $10 billion + in TSLA market cap and the reason why it belongs to the Longs for the taking is because the short thesis is fundamentally flawed on every level. Let that get away and spend the rest of the year punching yourself in the face.

As you say you are not sure about recessionary fears. Well I'm very sure indeed about everything I just said. Pick one.

Yes I am unsure about recessionary fears. I have been lighten my long exposure since 220s and now hold less than 10% of my original position. If I am wrong and the risks abate, I would happily pay a premium to current prices and buy everything back at 220+, even 230+. Losing out on a 10% gain is no big deal to me when I believe TSLA is eventually going to $1000+. It's chump change.

On the other hand, what if you are wrong? What happens to the person that listens to you and over-leverages themselves at current prices? What do you think happens to TSLA if the general market falls another 20% from here? Best case, they run out of powder and are unable to act when the real buying opportunity comes. Worst case, depending on how leveraged they are, someone could go broke and watch TSLA go to $1000 in the coming years.

Pick one? I will pick the hard lessons I've learned over the past 20+ years that has allowed me to do this for a living.
 
Why can't the gov't create some program to help shift people losing their jobs from the oil and gas industry to the solar industry if it's really that big of a concern for the economy? Is it all because of the special interest groups and the market? I'm a proactive person and so I can't see why if the big picture is here about the future of energy, why we wouldn't help ease the transition....

Because it is an election year... nothing will happen. Also, election years are traditionally not good for the stock market.
 
How many different jobs programs have we already had? The government in general does not have a good track record in this area as it ends up being special interest boondoggles. Look at the home efficiency stimulus program which was supposed to create jobs and reduce energy use. Incredible fraud and waste. Haven't we already had some stimulus programs geared towards "green jobs?"

I know I know.....just saying, if it's that big of a deal for our economy, then why not something like in the past during the 30's,40's, 50's? I actually think it should be up to the people losing their jobs, I'm sure they've heard of the transition. If it were me, I would start looking for a job in the solar,wind,EV industry. Why should we as a nation sit our on hands, look at the problem coming towards us, and then when it gets here say What do we do?" blah blah blah. If the market is supposed to correct the problem, how will that happen if people like the Koch brothers are influencing where the money goes?
 
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