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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Mention of GTAT gives me the chills. I remember there was a run-up before the Apple event and time for profit taking despite rumors from very credible sources that the iPhone will not have sapphire.

Probably the biggest similarity between SCTY and GTAT are the management teams. This is just my personal opinion but it's based on following SCTY's management, earnings calls, interviews, etc for almost 4 years... SCTY's management IMHO is not only inept but untrustworthy. [redacted the rest because maybe overly strong language can be misunderstood]
 
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I got out of MBLY a few days ago.
Was holding on to mbly for the automatic emergency breaking market short term. Will be mandatory soon so that should be a plus if they have a cheep entry level system.

Cut them loose before the latest round of info. They don't have control of any data sets for training machine learning and that is one of the things I am looking for in an investment. I view my retirement accounts as a hedge against humans being obsolecent to make it through disruption between no jobs and lower cost of living. I kid but it is kind of the starting point for my Roth.

Larger position in solar city is more of a hedge against the merger passing and temporarily moving tesla down a bit short term.
 
Probably the biggest similarity between SCTY and GTAT are the management teams. This is just my personal opinion but it's based on following SCTY's management, earnings calls, interviews, etc for almost 4 years... SCTY's management is not only inept but untrustworthy. Are they as deceitful as GTAT's management? Maybe. GTAT's management blatantly deceived shareholders by claiming everything was rosy even when they knew they were toast. I see similar actions w/SCTY's management.

You have reason to believe there is fraud, or you are just guessing? That's not a statement to make lightly.
 
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Probably the biggest similarity between SCTY and GTAT are the management teams. This is just my personal opinion but it's based on following SCTY's management, earnings calls, interviews, etc for almost 4 years... SCTY's management is not only inept but untrustworthy. Are they as deceitful as GTAT's management? Maybe. GTAT's management blatantly deceived shareholders by claiming everything was rosy even when they knew they were toast. I see similar actions w/SCTY's management.

Elon Musk is Solar City's Chairman.
 
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Selling things for zero money down is the sort of deal which got SolarCity in trouble, so maybe Musk simply didn't want to help SolarCity hang itself....

Well, the Rive cousins may have pretty near accomplished that already, which is troubling since the two corporations have shared over-lapping officers and directors, albeit in some cases with different principals of VC firms.

I think Musk doesn't like complicated deals. He said the Panasonic deal is about two pages long.

He obviously did not count the pages to
Exhibits 10.1 (Amendment to Gigafactory General Terms, dated March 1, 2016, by and among Tesla Motors, Inc., Panasonic Corporation and Panasonic Energy Corporation of North America.) and

10.2 (Amendment to Gigafactory Documents, dated April 5, 2016, by and among Tesla Motors, Inc., Panasonic Corporation, Panasonic Corporation of North America and Panasonic Energy Corporation of North America)
to the 1Q16 10Q Those two alone are probably pushing 40 pages, and they are just heavily redacted amendments to more lengthy agreements.

Maybe there is something else Musk genuinely wants out of SolarCity. Maybe he actually wants the installation teams, which he did mention a couple of times. Who did the installations in the Kauai'i deal?

My impression of the value of the installation teams crossed in an earlier post. Given the scale and pretty much "one of" nature of the Kauai deal, I suspect Tesla & SolarCity hired a local GC.

IMO, Elon did not want SCTY to be a further embarrassment, and the easiest solution was to swallow the whole enchilada. Listening to or reading the transcript of SCTY's 1Q16 conference call is instructive.
 
You have reason to believe there is fraud, or you are just guessing? That's not a statement to make lightly.
I'm not sure what to call it with SCTY'S management. Fraud's probably too strong a word. But time will tell and I could be completely wrong on this matter. Perhaps the politically correct wording would be SCTY'S management was not "forthcoming" with their problems. I was just surprised to find out a lot of SCTY's issues in their filing, like their difficulty to raise funds, the management shopping the company to multiple parties even before TSLA's offer, etc. In their earnings calls management is almost always "rosy" about the future (ie, them claiming they'll grow fine even without ITC because they're reducing costs but only later to find out they're not making much headway or IMO would be even in a worse situation if ITC want extended, or them earlier in the year claiming to be cash flow positive in Q4 and then conveniently not mentioning it since). Every person has their choice whether to deem a management team trustworthy/forthcoming or not. Over time, I've made my conclusion. Again I can be wrong and it's just my personal, subjective thoughts.
 
I'm not sure what to call it with SCTY'S management. Fraud's probably too strong a word. But time will tell and I could be completely wrong on this matter. Perhaps the politically correct wording would be SCTY'S management was not "forthcoming" with their problems. I was just surprised to find out a lot of SCTY's issues in their filing

Perhaps I feel differently because none of that suprised me?
 
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No, that's NY's obligation. SolarCity just needs to buy raw materials, and hire/train its workforce

I will need to look up the reference material, but I'm pretty sure that NY only owns the building. After all what would the city know about building an automated solar panel factory?! SolarCity, who acquired that expertise when it purchased silevo, has to equip it, staff it, and run it. Here's an oblique reference to this: Elon Musk's SolarCity may help turn around this Rust Belt region

"SolarCity officials recently reported that the gigafactory is nearly 90 percent complete and that it hopes to start installing equipment this summer"

Edit: Now that I typed this out. Perhaps it's the Silevo staff that Elon wants!! That's what he would get from acquiring SCTY that no other solar company could offer (in addition to the Buffalo factory). A drop-in solar factory and expertise.
 
Latest Tesla blog update..

Addressing Peak Energy Demand with the Tesla Powerpack

"Last week, through a competitive process, Tesla was selected to provide a 20 MW/80 MWh Powerpack system at the Southern California Edison Mira Loma substation. Tesla was the only bidder awarded a utility-owned storage project out of the solicitation.

Upon completion, this system will be the largest lithium ion battery storage project in the world. When fully charged, this system will hold enough energy to power more than 2,500 households for a day or charge 1,000 Tesla vehicles.

The Gigafactory's ability to produce at a large scale will allow this system to be manufactured, shipped, installed and commissioned in three months."

 
I still like the SCTY acquisition. There is some duration mis-match, but my read on the securitizations is that systems covered under these financings are not really at risk. I do not think homeowners will default wholesale on the SCTY PPAs and I really doubt the typical utility is on a path to reduce the typical electric bill to the consumer.

I like the fact that tesla picks up the nation's largest solar company, along with the largest set of forward looking consumers to go sell powerwalls to.

I also like the fact that Elon can ramp up utility sales with the SCTY team, especially for the utility battery business where it seems to me that TSLA was being opportunistic and didn't really focus on building a major in-house sales , installation and support team.

Overall this does add risk, but I think it also increases the capacity for tesla to hit masterplan #1. Which, to me, was the whole point in investing in TSLA.

Plus I'll give Elon the benefit of doubt on the rooftop solar product that no one here has seen
 
Latest Tesla blog update..

Addressing Peak Energy Demand with the Tesla Powerpack

"Last week, through a competitive process, Tesla was selected to provide a 20 MW/80 MWh Powerpack system at the Southern California Edison Mira Loma substation. Tesla was the only bidder awarded a utility-owned storage project out of the solicitation.

Upon completion, this system will be the largest lithium ion battery storage project in the world. When fully charged, this system will hold enough energy to power more than 2,500 households for a day or charge 1,000 Tesla vehicles.

The Gigafactory's ability to produce at a large scale will allow this system to be manufactured, shipped, installed and commissioned in three months."

So at their current prices that would be around a $40 million sale? (probably less since they get a discount for an order that large).
 
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Elon MuskVerified account‏@elonmusk
@vicentes @EdibleApple Hoping to start WW rollout of 8.0 on Wednesday if no last minute issues discovered.



P.S. Also Mr. Schmitt is reading this thread.

Bertel Schmitt on Twitter

Yes Herrn Schmitt; we are indeed desperate.
Desperate to see you eat your hat, as we fear you might not be the type of man to stand by what he writes, not even when making a promise.

You are welcome to join the discussion, but lets move it to this thread :
Autopilot a fraud? The linked author bets Elon he'll eat a hat if it changes lanes!
 
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I got out of MBLY a few days ago.
Mobileye will sell a lot of their systems to the car manufacturers that can't/are not interested in building their own tech. Untill a few weeks ago,this,was the entire car market. SInce the split this is still the entire car market minus Tesla, which even by 2020 or 2025 will still be a very small part of the car market. The rest of the market is for Mobileye. There's a reason why Mobileye trades at a very high multiple, and it's not because they have Tesla as a customer.
 
Mobileye will sell a lot of their systems to the car manufacturers that can't/are not interested in building their own tech. Untill a few weeks ago,this,was the entire car market. SInce the split this is still the entire car market minus Tesla, which even by 2020 or 2025 will still be a very small part of the car market. The rest of the market is for Mobileye. There's a reason why Mobileye trades at a very high multiple, and it's not because they have Tesla as a customer.

Don't forget that George Hotz and his comma.ai wants to sell one to the manufacturers as well:

"If [Tesla] is the iOS, we want to be the Android. And I want to be there when Ford's CEO has to choose to be Nokia or Samsung," Hotz said.
 
Don't forget that George Hotz and his comma.ai wants to sell one to the manufacturers as well:
It's not because they want to sell that they will sell. Of all the parties developing autonomous driving stuff, I'm most sceptical of comma.ai. As an engineer, I find it very difficult to believe that such a product can be developed with the mindset of a hacker, and certainly not in a few months.
 
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Mobileye will sell a lot of their systems to the car manufacturers that can't/are not interested in building their own tech. Untill a few weeks ago,this,was the entire car market. SInce the split this is still the entire car market minus Tesla, which even by 2020 or 2025 will still be a very small part of the car market. The rest of the market is for Mobileye. There's a reason why Mobileye trades at a very high multiple, and it's not because they have Tesla as a customer.

I think the fear is (and I admit I know very little about MBLY the company) that if Tesla shows that radar based assisted navigation is superior to the camera based solution that MobilEye currently offers and MobilEye has nothing else to offer that someone else might come along and scoop up (some of) MBLYs market share with a radar based solution.

Maybe MBLY is quick on their feet and can adapt quickly with no negative effects. After all, this is all software and programming since what Tesla is doing is utilizing the same hardware.
 
I think the fear is (and I admit I know very little about MBLY the company) that if Tesla shows that radar based assisted navigation is superior to the camera based solution that MobilEye currently offers and MobilEye has nothing else to offer that someone else might come along and scoop up (some of) MBLYs market share with a radar based solution.

Maybe MBLY is quick on their feet and can adapt quickly with no negative effects. After all, this is all software and programming since what Tesla is doing is utilizing the same hardware.
It is not that radar is superior, I think. It is that radar interpretation is grotesquely complex, difficult and place-sensitive. Absent something approaching "thick data" on every road, radar will be quite error prone. Thus, cameras and other detection technologies will continue to have a place. Cameras are better in optimal visual conditions (surprise;)) but are woefully inadequate in adverse weather and difficult terrain. There is no surprise that the Singapore and Pittsburgh autonomous efforts mimic the Google Palo Alto efforts. In each such case there is very Thick Data and the autonomous operation is limited to only those routes where Thick Data is available.

Tesla offers something in between, but crowd-sourced data collection is allowing some tangible benefits approaching the Thick Data models. How Tesla is actually managing that is something I, for one, think is really amazing but I do not pretend to understand how they're doing it.

With all the global efforts, MobilEye is just one player, albeit an early one that has had considerable success. They have emphasized processing and cameras, plus the early mover advantages. We now have legions of cartographers, satellite mapping data mavens and big data specialists> There are also a few geologists who specialized in seismology, a notoriously difficult arena that hunts for tiny valuable signals amidst mostly loud and irrelevant noise. This will all play out to our benefit IMHO, with Tesla continuing to lead in real-world application of these techniques.

As the Tesla advances become more evident in this arena some of the drag on price application will dissipate. No doubt GAAP positive earnings will too. Sometime people will begin to perceive that Tesla is profitable on a steady state basis now, but teh high growth rate will penalize GAAP for a long time to come. Further Tesla is carrying inventory until actual end-cutomer sale, which no other car manufacturer does and costs capital, as does the proprietary distribution system and the charging network. All that that is paying off, but it does eat tons of capital when rapidly growing. Just imagine the steady state!

Vertical integration has many benefits and a few disadvantages too. This biggest disadvantage is supporting high growth. Somehow the financial press and analysts cannot see that point and make some adjustments to consider apples to apples. BMW might well have 8% ROS go slightly negative were they vertically integrated as Tesla is.
 
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