Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

[ClearwaterBchSteve]

My response to intial thread question: No

The S has an inherent "creep-up" feature whether "CREEP" is turned on or off :wink:

I'm so glad my Tesla has a "real" horn and not a "beep-beep". It most likely runs off the standard 12v system, but wouldn't it be great to have it connected to the main battery - think freight train horn.

 

[Doug_G]

I think all smartphones should sound loud warning beeps if they determine from GPS that they are moving at a walking pace while the user is operating them.

Almost not kidding.

 

[Vexar]

One of my sisters is blind and was backed into by a prius in a parking lot some years ago. She ended up on the news and a lot of discussion was had in our family about this subject. I originally thought is was ridiculous to require that cars make a minimal amount of noise, I hate noise pollution but later I came around. I think the way the Leaf deals with this issue is perfect, mainly making a not too intrusive sound when moving forward slowly and a back up beep when backing up. the Leaf makes no artificial sound when it's underway at higher speeds so it doesn't add to the overall background noise pollution. It works and satisfies those who have issue with this. I don't think EV's should be singled out, honestly, all cars that operate below an given threshold of sound should be held to the same standard. The reality is that cars that are perfectly quiet pose a hazard to pedestrians whether or not they are handicapped and many modern cars are become more and more quiet.

The argument is usually "if it saves a life, it's worth it." I know the uncle of the kid whose death where I live led to mandating CO detectors in all houses: new construction or remodeled.
Why are people blaming the cars, though? Last I checked, the Prius has very good rear view visibility for the driver.

regarding sound choices: yes, that's definitely an "ugly baby" you have there for a sound effect!
I do like the suggestion of a lower volume horn, but really, I remember my driver's education class. People need to use their horns more for safety, and less for aggressive behavior. I think the #1 use of a car horn in the US is to let the guy in front of you know the light turned green. My #1 use of a car horn is alerting drivers who are moving in reverse that I'm approaching. #2 for me is probably getting a pedestrian to look at me and communicate. I don't think the problem is the technology, I think the problem is the driver. Any foreigners care to comment?

A dear friend of mine says that all he ever wants for his birthday is driver's education for everyone living in my state.

 

[Doug_G]

You can't design safety into everything. There's a famous case I learned about in university. There was a two engine airplane, where a crash happened when an engine failed and the pilot feathered the wrong propeller. So the engineers added an auto-feather feature.

Of course a few years later the auto-feather feature failed on one of the planes, and feathered the propeller on a perfectly good engine. The pilot reacted in accordance with the original training, and responded to the emergency by manually feathering the wrong engine. Now that two perfectly good engines were disabled the plane crashed.

 

[DrTaras]

A dear friend of mine says that all he ever wants for his birthday is driver's education for everyone living in my state.

Wait... don't y'all drive snow plows in MN? :redface:
(Okay, if that was politically incorrect, you have my apologies as it was not meant to be offensive)

 

[bonnie]

Zambonis, not snow plows.

- - - Updated - - -

(I grew up in Minnesota, so I know the truth.)

 

[mgemmell]

...People need to use their horns more for safety, and less for aggressive behavior. I think the #1 use of a car horn in the US is to let the guy in front of you know the light turned green. My #1 use of a car horn is alerting drivers who are moving in reverse that I'm approaching. #2 for me is probably getting a pedestrian to look at me and communicate. I don't think the problem is the technology, I think the problem is the driver. Any foreigners care to comment?

Living here in Madrid, Spain, the use of the horn is essentially the same, although I'd add #3 to let the guy who just pulled into your lane know just how much you appreciate their driving skill, and #4 advising the people jumping the red ahead of the green that you are coming at them through the yellow/red light a lot faster than strictly recommended. Actually, there are probably quite a few more I should add but you get the idea...

What I have to say is that in a noisy city like this you don't trust just your ears. Even a normal car on idle is essentially inaudible above the din. Hence everyone here walks/runs/cycles/drives with as many senses as possible at 100%. The sight-impaired are under no illusion that just listening is enough. I think this is true of most big cities - there is already too much noise to make it possible to hear anything quiet.

One difference here is that if you have an accident of the kind we are talking about (low speed, parking etc.) it generally gets resolved without lawyers! Just a lot of shouting and letting off steam.

 

[Quacker]

I've never seen a blind person cross the street in my life, so I don't think it's fair to make every car make a certain amount of noise. If they want to accommodate the very few amount of blind people, they can upgrade their crosswalk technology like we have in my area.

 

[JRod0802]

Personally, I would like it to be setup so you can turn on/off a feature that makes an artificial noise/hum when moving slower than, say, 18 mph. So if I'm out in Western, MA, enjoying a nice drive, I turn off that feature to enjoy the silence. And if I'm commuting 6 miles through Boston / Boston suburbs, I can turn on that feature to prevent people from walking out in front of me.

I drive a noisy car now (V8 Mustang), and the noise makes a difference. No one accidentally walks out in front of me.

While I've never tried one before, I don't like the quiet horn idea. I'd feel like a jerk honking my horn at pedestrians, even if it's quiet. It just seems rude.

As a note, I only honk to #1 let the driver in front of me know the light is green, and #2 to let the driver that's about to switch lanes into my car know that I'm here.

 

[vfx]

...
While I've never tried one before, I don't like the quiet horn idea. I'd feel like a jerk honking my horn at pedestrians, even if it's quiet. It just seems rude.....

Then don't think of it as a horn. Cause it's not.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

DOT Minimum Sound Requirements

Department of Transportation proposes minimum sound requirements for hybrid and electric vehicles

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Birds don't hear me coming until it is very close to being too late! Anyone else seeing this? I think the low drag makes the car pretty quiet in addition to the no engine noises.
4-5 crows were picking at an opossum this morning and I thought I was going to hit a couple but they just moved in time ( 35-38 mph)
I did hit a tiny bird a few days ago but it was flying 'crazy' like it was injured already and it just barely glanced off my windshield which hopefully didn't hurt it much more due to the slope.

Birds, Bears and Deer (+Elk but they don't seem to care about loud cars either) are my concern. Humans F with the animals all the time, why worry about them, they can fend for themselves!

solution?

 

[vfx]

Birds don't hear me coming until it is very close to being too late! Anyone else seeing this? I think the low drag makes the car pretty quiet in addition to the no engine noises....

Not at all, deer rabbits, birds, all animals hear the tire sounds air noise and see the massive object heading at them.
Prey animals are hyper tuned for silent predators that swoop from the sky or creep along the ground. The idea that a giant car surprising them quietly being more stealthy than a car with a engine sound is just wrong and there are no stats to back that kind of assertion.

 

[W.Petefish]

No need for noise makers on vehicles.

If anything give the people that are disabled an alert mechanism, like the size of a pager, that would vibrate when any car approches.

Case and point:
I almost hit someone who was not paying attention in my Silverado truck. If that truck doesn't make enough noise, I don't know what does.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

 

[Doug_G]

Birds swoop low regardless of the vehicle. Animals do crazy things regardless of the vehicle. I've had two racoons charge at my ICE car straight down the center line of the highway.

I've hit all kinds of birds and animals in ICE cars over the years. After 2-1/2 years of driving an electric car I've not had that happen. I really don't think animals are going to care about noisemakers.

 

[MikeK]

While I've never tried one before, I don't like the quiet horn idea. I'd feel like a jerk honking my horn at pedestrians, even if it's quiet. It just seems rude.

Have you ever ridden a bicycle with a little bell to let people know you're coming behind them? The pedestrian alert on the EV-1 was no more intrusive or rude-sounding than that. I wish that there was a recording I could post, but this is the best I can come up with. If you jump to 56 seconds in this video, you can hear the EV-1's backup alert. The pedestrian alert used the same device but produced a little bit different sound. It's definitely not a rude sound.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh! I found it. Jump to 6:11 in this video.

 

[DrTaras]

Zambonis, not snow plows.
(I grew up in Minnesota, so I know the truth.)

Did you know that the Zamboni was invented in Sunny Southern California?
http://www.zamboni.com/

- - - Updated - - -

One difference here is that if you have an accident of the kind we are talking about (low speed, parking etc.) it generally gets resolved without lawyers! Just a lot of shouting and letting off steam.

Good point! That being said, when I read your prose, I hear a Catalan Scottish accent! Is that possible?

- - - Updated - - -

Birds don't hear me coming until it is very close to being too late! Anyone else seeing this?
solution? View attachment 14368

I saw that right away with the Roadster & your picture is hilarious!

 

[vfx]

When you people ask for the programmable sound for your car and think about how yo want (insert funny/cool/awesome/musical) sound as your favorite sound, then watch this as to what your neighbors will like.

whoo WHOO

remix

 

[brianman]

Combine this with the proposed mandated sound, and it's easy to see a regulation saying "volume must be within [x,y] dB". Next will be type-of-sound, to stop air raid sirens and "OMG, my house is on fire!".

 

[Doug_G]

What should your EV sound like?

Silicon Valley Nation: What should your EV sound like?

NHTSA's "preferred alternative" (one of several, including no action) "would establish minimum sound requirements within specific one-third octave band ranges between 160 and 5000 Hz for EVs and HVs at idle through 30 km/h, as well as when in reverse," according to the agency. Required sound levels would range from the low 40s dB (idle) to around 60 dB (at 18 mph). Another alternative favored byautomotive manufacturers and used in Japan calls for sound up to 44 dB only on motion and only up to 12 mph (20 kph).

You knew this was coming. And in the age of the downloadable app, in the era of the ringtone, this presents a huge new opportunity for drivers to customize their EVs and PHEVs. Artificial engine noise would be so completely lame, but you have to figure that'll be an option.

But how about a lion growl? Elk bugle? Uncontrolled laughter? Chainsaw noise? How about easing into the school parking zone blaring "Ode to Joy" from Beethoven's 9th? Driving into the parking lot at work with Mozart's "Requiem?"