Should or shouldn't EAB or Autopilot take evasive actions on these videos?

[ramonneke]

Yesterday I almost had a collision with a Volvo coming into my lane. I had several of these incidents while owning my S100D. In all these cases Autopilot was engaged and I more or less expected the car to avoid a collision which luckily I did manage to do.

Not taking over steering, braking, or warning for a potential collision for any of the following:

1. Minivan that went into my lane:

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2. Large bus that went into my lane:

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3. Car that went into my lane:

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4. Cars moving over multiple lanes while coming on to the highway:

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5. Volvo moving into my lane while I'm in its blindspot:

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Then I see those movies of Tesla's auto braking to avoid collisions from the weirdest angles and my care doing nothing.... I just doubt if those Autopilot vidoes are real.

 

[Az_Rael]

Then I see those movies of Tesla's auto braking to avoid collisions from the weirdest angles and my care doing nothing.... I just doubt if those Autopilot vidoes are real.

Autopilot does not react to cars until they are about halfway into your lane. It is a documented limitation in the user manual.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

What I find astonishing is how much false braking is attributed to the car thinking that another car is going to cut into the lane. But, at the same time it seems to miss cars actually coming into the lane.

So it's like a double failure.

 

[Daniel in SD]

What I find astonishing is how much false braking is attributed to the car thinking that another car is going to cut into the lane. But, at the same time it seems to miss cars actually coming into the lane.

So it's like a double failure.

What drives me crazy is that if you look at the display in these situations you can see the car coming into the lane. So the vision system is working but the car doesn’t respond.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yesterday I almost had a collision with a Volvo coming into my lane. I had several of these incidents while owning my S100D. In all these cases Autopilot was engaged and I more or less expected the car to avoid a collision which luckily I did manage to do.

Not taking over steering, braking, or warning for a potential collision for any of the following:

1. Minivan that went into my lane:

-

2. Large bus that went into my lane:

-

3. Car that went into my lane:

-

4. Cars moving over multiple lanes while coming on to the highway:

-

5. Volvo moving into my lane while I'm in its blindspot:

-

Then I see those movies of Tesla's auto braking to avoid collisions from the weirdest angles and my care doing nothing.... I just doubt if those Autopilot vidoes are real.

Man, you seem to attract some really bad drivers! I haven’t encountered that sort of egregious behavior more than a couple times in my driving years. Glad you were able to avoid them all - a lot of those could have been pretty bad.

My only guess is they simply can’t identify many of these situations without having a high false positive rate. There is a threshold where it may take action, but only if it is really really sure! So there tend to be a lot of false negatives I suppose.

 

[ewoodrick]

I didn't take the time to see all the videos, but in the first, it was obvious, no action taken because no action needed. In the second, drive got scared before car decided if any action is needed.

Car doesn't really give a flip about a car crossing the lines. Neither should a driver. What you should care about is if a collision is imminent. A computer can react in milliseconds, I'm guessing that the car's buffer zone is less than a meter. If the vehicle was to encroach the buffer zone, then I would expect evasive action. Otherwise no.

Long story short, military pilot doing low level terrain avoidance exercises. Pilot didn't think that the plane was going to pull up enough to clear the mountain, the pilot took control and lost. But in essentially identical flight paths, the plane had managed to be successful 100% of the time.

People's buffer zone are a lot wider than a computers.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Car doesn't really give a flip about a car crossing the lines. Neither should a driver. What you should care about is if a collision is imminent. A computer can react in milliseconds, I'm guessing that the car's buffer zone is less than a meter. If the vehicle was to encroach the buffer zone, then I would expect evasive action. Otherwise no.

I can’t tell if you’re joking or not. Even if you believe that the car will take evasive action (it’s certainly far from guaranteed as numerous accidents have occurred) the car can’t change the laws of physics. One meter is not enough distance to begin taking evasive action in most of those situations.

 

[EVNow]

So it's like a double failure.

We should expect both false positives and false negatives - errors won't all be in one direction. They just need to get the error rates down.

 

[EVNow]

Then I see those movies of Tesla's auto braking to avoid collisions from the weirdest angles and my care doing nothing.... I just doubt if those Autopilot vidoes are real.

What speed are you going at ? Seems to me much faster than rest of the traffic.

 

[ramonneke]

What speed are you going at ? Seems to me much faster than rest of the traffic.

Allowed vMax if possible so that means 130 for German and Dutch roads and 120 for Belgium roads.

 

[ramonneke]

I didn't take the time to see all the videos, but in the first, it was obvious, no action taken because no action needed. In the second, drive got scared before car decided if any action is needed.

Car doesn't really give a flip about a car crossing the lines. Neither should a driver. What you should care about is if a collision is imminent. A computer can react in milliseconds, I'm guessing that the car's buffer zone is less than a meter. If the vehicle was to encroach the buffer zone, then I would expect evasive action. Otherwise no.

Long story short, military pilot doing low level terrain avoidance exercises. Pilot didn't think that the plane was going to pull up enough to clear the mountain, the pilot took control and lost. But in essentially identical flight paths, the plane had managed to be successful 100% of the time.

People's buffer zone are a lot wider than a computers.

Sorry, I do not agree. Yes EAB should not respond maybe in all situation because an impact was still avoidable whicch is obvious because in all but one I personally took action.

However, on Autopilot I expect it to anticipate on the surrounding cars to make sure you have a pleasant and relaxed drive. On all of these AP should have anticipated and either slow down OR at least warn the drivers of a potential dangerous situation as I've seen in so many movies.

Cars slowly drifting into my lane should be handled decently while on Autopilot.

 

[ewoodrick]

Sorry, I do not agree. Yes EAB should not respond maybe in all situation because an impact was still avoidable whicch is obvious because in all but one I personally took action.

However, on Autopilot I expect it to anticipate on the surrounding cars to make sure you have a pleasant and relaxed drive. On all of these AP should have anticipated and either slow down OR at least warn the drivers of a potential dangerous situation as I've seen in so many movies.

Cars slowly drifting into my lane should be handled decently while on Autopilot.

My point wasn't that it wasn't going to respond. My point was that it didn't need to respond or that you chickened out before it did respond.
If a car is 2 feet away, a human will often respond. But when it comes to a computer, two feet is close to infinity.

 

[ramonneke]

My point wasn't that it wasn't going to respond. My point was that it didn't need to respond or that you chickened out before it did respond.
If a car is 2 feet away, a human will often respond. But when it comes to a computer, two feet is close to infinity.

Well, then I ask you. If you would ride in a taxi what kind of behavior you would expect as again doing a list split-second evasive maneuver is what I expect from EAB but not for Autopilot and that is my case here. The early warning failed, and bot Autopilot or EAB did a thing. I agree that maybe this is not EAB material but then atleast IMHO it is for the early warning system or Autopilot.

 

[ewoodrick]

Well, then I ask you. If you would ride in a taxi what kind of behavior you would expect as again doing a list split-second evasive maneuver is what I expect from EAB but not for Autopilot and that is my case here. The early warning failed, and bot Autopilot or EAB did a thing. I agree that maybe this is not EAB material but then atleast IMHO it is for the early warning system or Autopilot.

I've ridden in Taxis in New York City. 1 cm is about all you can expect in clearance there. Actually, it's more like "very slight ding"

But yes, as I looked at the second video, you gave in a lot sooner than I would have. There's a lot of folks that get upset because the cars rides in the middle of the road. They think that it should be to the right, away from oncoming traffic. It's all a matter of personal boundaries.

And by the way, a last second evasive maneuver to a computer may not be more than a 1 degree change in direction, whereas for many people it's a 30 degree change. People's reaction times are a lot slower than computers and often, because of this, there is significant over-reaction to an issue.

Bottom line, in any of the video, if the car had continued straight, would an accident have occurred. A slight deviation of a lane does not make for a guaranteed accident.