Snow tires - Yea or Nay?

[gglockner]

Hope you're faring well in Seattle Snowmageddon 2019.

Yesterday, Mrs. G and I ventured out of our neighborhood in our 2014 Model S. It drove great once we reached the local artery. But our local street was a disaster. We slipped at the intersection at the end of our street. On our second trip out, we couldn't get out of the neighborhood, so we turned around and stayed home. In hindsight, I think I could have gotten the car out by disabling traction control, but the trip wasn't worth the risk to life & property.

We have Spikes Spider for our old Toyota, so we can get out of the home if necessary. I was thinking about getting a second pair of Spikes Spiders for the Tesla, but a friend in Portland suggested that a set of snow tires would do as well and would be less hassle.

What's your opinion on the effectiveness of snow tires for driving in/around Puget Sound? I'm not asking about real mountain drives where chains are required - just asking about everyday driving around Seattle to get to the store, etc. I'm OK with waiting for the main roads to get plowed, but that does me no good if I can't drive the 1.5 blocks from my home to those roads.

 

[marksvend]

Absolutely. We have a Model 3 AWD and Model S AWD. The S has snow tires and the 3 does not. I drove both on the same day with our icy hilly roads, and the S is so much more confident and drives almost like the road is clear. The 3's back end kicks out while driving straight through ice.

Snow tires are more important than having all wheel drive for snow traction. I have the wheel/tire combo from Tesla, which is the Pirelli Sottozero III. It's not the best snow tire, but I think it's ideal for Seattle where dry/wet conditions are far more common. The pure snow tires don't deal as well with typical Seattle conditions.

Winter tires work better in 40ºF and below, where all-season tires turn hard like a hockey puck. Even though Seattle rarely sees snow, freezing fog and black ice are very common in the winter here.

It's worth having a set of winter tires and wheels. It's a small fee to swap them out every season, and you spread the miles over two sets of tires, so the incremental cost is just that of the wheels.

 

[PWlakewood]

I've lived in the Pacific northwest for nearly 40 years and I have never purchased winter/snow tires. On a few occasions over the years I have put chains on my cars or trucks. I've driven up to the mountains with my Tahoe and front wheel drive cars and the Tahoe performed flawlessly. Yes we do get black ice here but for the most part winter tires are pointless in my opinion. AWD with all season tires will do just fine and work for 99.9% of your driving in western Washington. If its ice your worried about the real answer is that no matter what type of tire you put on they will not help when driving on ice or stopping on ice unless you have studs.

 

[marksvend]

If its ice your worried about the real answer is that no matter what type of tire you put on they will not help when driving on ice or stopping on ice unless you have studs.

There's a detailed research report on the effectiveness of winter tires.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/research/reports/fullreports/551.1.pdf

Some conclusions from the study:

• Studded tires produce their best traction on snow or ice near the freezing mark and lose proportionately more of their tractive ability at lower temperatures than do studless or all-season tires.
• The traction of studded tires is slightly superior to studless tires only under an ever-narrowing set of circumstances.... For those conditions in which studded tires provided better traction than studless tires, the increment usually was small.
• In one set of stopping distance tests in Alaska, studded, studless, and all- season tires performed nearly equally on snow, when averaged across several vehicles. On ice, stopping distances for studded tires were 15 percent shorter than for Blizzaks, which in turn were 8 percent shorter than for all-season tires.
• In another set of tests in Alaska, studless Blizzak tires offered the best traction performance, especially for braking on both packed snow and ice, in comparison to studded tires (which were second) and all-season tires (which were last).

 

[ReddyLeaf]

We got 18” from the current storm, with another 2-5” expected tonight. Nope, I’m not even gonna bother. Plus with all the salt and gravel they dump on the roads, my baby stays clean inside. I even keep the Leaf inside unless it’s absolutely necessary. I stocked up before the storm and will wait until it’s clear. All my events were canceled from Sat-Tues, so that was easy. Besides, I’ve been too busy shoveling for two days straight and helping out neighbors who get stuck when they seem to “need” to get out and drive. Also, the parks are wonderful.

 

[StealthP3D]

The Pirelli Sottozero 2's are excellent for PNW winters because they work better than the all-season Michelin MXM4's on cold dry or wet pavement and are just as quiet too. They have no downside in terms of driving dynamics on cold bare pavement and are great in the snow and ice. It will make your summer tires last a lot longer too so the extra expense is mostly the 2nd set of wheels you're going to want.

The Model 3 is such a pleasure to drive it would be a shame to not have some capable tires on there when it gets cold and it would be equally shameful to have to drive around all winter on winter tires with "squirmy" rubber. I stopped buying the "squirmy" winter tires about 6 years ago and I'm glad I did.

 

[bbthechange]

I drove in Seattle a little Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and pretty far yesterday (Monday) and while everyone else was slipping around, my 4wd 3 with snow tires was confidently plowing forward. We watched another car try to go up a hill several times and then give up and laboriously turn around, and then we went up with no problems whatsoever.

Most of the miles in my car are en route to snowboarding, so I put snow tires on every winter. However, if this isn't you and if your job has a "work from home" option on extreme weather days, I don't think snow tires make that much sense in the Seattle area. They are awesome though

 

[mswlogo]

Snow tires pretty much have the same value on any car and there is nothing unique about a Tesla or Tesla's AWD that makes it need or not need them.

It depends if you want to raise the odds of getting where you want to go. At the cost of some less performance typically when it's dry roads.

You don't "plan" on when your local street might be a disaster. Main roads are often fine within hours after a storm.

Some people HAVE to be work. Some people have no place to store summer tires. Some people have a beater ICE AWD etc.

You are the best judge of what you need/want.

Personally, for me, in New England, it's just automatic with any car.

P.S. Snow tires won't stop someone from hitting you

 

[StealthP3D]

It depends if you want to raise the odds of getting where you want to go. At the cost of some less performance typically when it's dry roads.

I'm not kidding, the Pirelli Sottozero 2's do not give up any performance on dry roads in the winter. They actually drive a bit better than the MXM4 all-seasons on dry pavement. And I like the way the MXM4's drive. The Pirellis are just better.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it too!

 

[mswlogo]

I'm not kidding, the Pirelli Sottozero 2's do not give up any performance on dry roads in the winter. They actually drive a bit better than the MXM4 all-seasons on dry pavement. And I like the way the MXM4's drive. The Pirellis are just better.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it too!

So you have personally driven X-Ice, R3's, Soto 2's in the exact same conditions on the same day in an AWD to make that assessment? Or are you only comparing dry performance with your all seasons?

Sorry, but there are trade-offs will any tire.

It is well known a true snow tire like an R3 or X-Ice will do better on snow and ice. Period.
Granted, a "Performance" snow will do better on dry pavement and probably wet too.

BTW, X-Ice is the standard snow tire Tesla provides in Canada (2nd hand info read here, can't find reference).

I don't want to compromise anything on Ice or Snow. I'm willing to have softer handling for it.
Some don't want to compromise dry/wet handling for infrequent snow conditions either.

One tire won't do everything.

I won't pretend an X-Ice or R3 performs as well on dry as any Performance snow.

I also don't want to have to replace my snows every 2-3 seasons. I typically buy one set of snows for the life of the car.
Nokian's have done the for me numerous times.
Not sure how X-Ice will do, but they are one of the only snows with a tread warranty and will last much longer than any Performance Snow (that offer no tread warranty).

I only went with X-Ice over R3 (notably one of the best snow tires made) only for the of noise (which I was already unhappy with, with OEM tires).

I've seen some disappointments posted that got Pirelli Sottozero 2's. I've seen disappointments with X-Ice and R3 too.

Clearly other owners preferred not go with Pirelli Sottozero for similar reasons. See this large poll.

Which Snows and Why Poll?

 

[StealthP3D]

Sorry, but there are trade-offs will any tire.

It is well known a true snow tire like an R3 or X-Ice will do better on snow and ice. Period.

It sounds like you misunderstood me. I didn't say there are no trade-offs, I said in terms of dry road performance you don't have to give any up between my winter and summer tires. Of course, every tire has trade-offs, you can't run the Sottozero's in the summer heat (and they wouldn't perform as well as the all-seasons either). Their tread life is probably a bit shorter as well. But I was responding directly to your statement that switching to winter tires will entail: "the cost of some less performance typically when it's dry roads."

I'm simply saying if you normally run all-seasons, you can have your cake and eat it too. You will experience no dry road performance loss by running Sottozero 2's instead of the all-season MXM4's. And the snow and ice performance will be head and shoulders above the all-seasons.

 

[mswlogo]

It sounds like you misunderstood me. I didn't say there are no trade-offs, I said in terms of dry road performance you don't have to give any up between my winter and summer tires. Of course, every tire has trade-offs, you can't run the Sottozero's in the summer heat (and they wouldn't perform as well as the all-seasons either). Their tread life is probably a bit shorter as well. But I was responding directly to your statement that switching to winter tires will entail: "the cost of some less performance typically when it's dry roads."

I'm simply saying if you normally run all-seasons, you can have your cake and eat it too. You will experience no dry road performance loss by running Sottozero 2's instead of the all-season MXM4's. And the snow and ice performance will be head and shoulders above the all-seasons.

Well there is less performance over all-seasons, for just dry too. You just listed them

Sorry, I misunderstood. All good.

 

[Araman0]

I've got a RWD Model S and all season tires that are half worn. So the past weekend was absolutely horrid.

Given our lack of space we really dont have room for 4 spare tires. So I'd like to find some nice chains that can easily go on when necessary. Unfortunately I cant find any chains that fit my tires anywhere, even from third party manufacturers. My tires are 265/35 R21.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[N8DGR8]

I've got a RWD Model S and all season tires that are half worn. So the past weekend was absolutely horrid.

Given our lack of space we really dont have room for 4 spare tires. So I'd like to find some nice chains that can easily go on when necessary. Unfortunately I cant find any chains that fit my tires anywhere, even from third party manufacturers. My tires are 265/35 R21.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I bought my chains at the Tesla service center in 2015.

There is very little room to put them on, but they do work. We don't have the air suspension, so there is very little ground clearance, you end up plowing a lot of snow. Top speed is only 25 mph. I had more fun riding my mountain bike to the grocery store.

Unfortunately our neighbors 100D slid down their driveway and the front tires ended up 6" off the ground from landing on a retaining wall.

 

[SSedan]

I live near Green Bay not the Pacific Northwest but cold and snow are a part of life.
I am fine with all seasons on my P85 but my commute is only 6.5 miles each way and it is flat and this is far from the first rwd car I have owned I am middle aged and the only fwd cars I have owned have been jointly with the wife with her being the primary driver of them.

On the spreading wear over two set of tires, tires can age out. 4year old snows might have tread but are likely oxidized and hardened compromising effectivness.

I will admit to taking my old full-size 4x4 truck to work today, got close to a foot of snow much of it while I was at work. Had to drive over a 16" plow bank to get out of my parking spot. S would have gotten stuck regardless of tires without first shoveling.

 

[Araman0]

I bought my chains at the Tesla service center in 2015.

There is very little room to put them on, but they do work. We don't have the air suspension, so there is very little ground clearance, you end up plowing a lot of snow. Top speed is only 25 mph. I had more fun riding my mountain bike to the grocery store.

Unfortunately our neighbors 100D slid down their driveway and the front tires ended up 6" off the ground from landing on a retaining wall.

Do you have 21's? It appears Tesla does not sell chains for 21's which is my dilemma.

 

[N8DGR8]

Do you have 21's? It appears Tesla does not sell chains for 21's which is my dilemma.

245/45R19. Chains might damage your rims with less sidewall.

 

[marksvend]

I carry Autosocks to meet the chains requirement. It’s a thin fabric so there should be no clearance issues, and other Tesla drivers have reported they work well. It’s legal as a chain alternative in many states including WA.

 

[vatsa82]

Hey everyone, we are new to Seattle (moved from Cali last year) and never really driven much in the snow other than driving to Tahoe sometimes with snowchains. My needs: Go to Snowqualmie/Stevens Pass for the next 2 months skiing and often to Rainier NP in the winter. I know very little about driving in these passes, so firstly I need help determining b/w "all weather tries" or "winter only" tires. I am trying to decide b/w one of these 2 choices for my RWD Tesla Model S 75 2016. Size is 245/45/R19

1. Michelin x-ice snow tires - $1100 out the door including install
   
2. Quatrac Pro is Vredestein's Grand Touring All-Season tire

Not sure why Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 is not available for my car per this

 

[vatsa82]

Other option was the Nokian haaka which I believe I have to get very early ~ October, it was already gone when I checked a few retail stores today.