Solar Glass Snow Avalanches

[dhquigley]

Thanks for the update and pushing Tesla on this - who are you working with at Tesla? Is it just support, or is there a specific person/group? At some point I probably will need to contact them further to register my interest. I am hoping Tesla comes out with an official solution, just to address any potential warranty issues, whether it is their own or an authorized third party.

It has been an interesting storm in terms of the mix of precipitation and how the roof is shedding it, with Sunday having some light/medium snow and below freezing, where the shedding didn't seem to bad, followed by the freezing precipitation Sunday night-Monday and what appeared to be heavier avalanches, and now a couple more inches of lighter snow despite somewhat warmer temps, also with lighter shedding.

I just worked through my advisor at first, while also emailing/phoning customer service. It is pretty clear to me that they tag your account with who you speak with, and they simply send you back that way once connected. It looks like "Bailee B" is now quarterbacking, but seems like they are just working as a go between between me and the "local Operations team." Sounds like there is a team behind the team, so to speak, but "the product testing is going to be underway soon."

I will say, I am starting to get used to and comfortable with the shedding mainly because it does so periodically as opposed to all at once, and I have the only roof in the neighborhood that is completely clear right now (the panels across the street shed also, but the rest of his roof remains covered). I still want the guards to protect human health, my grill, the patio heater (which it completely wiped out), etc., but if Tesla put out a statement saying they did this intentionally to get the roof back producing as soon as possible, I'd probably nod and say "makes sense."

 

[wjgjr]

I will say, I am starting to get used to and comfortable with the shedding mainly because it does so periodically as opposed to all at once, and I have the only roof in the neighborhood that is completely clear right now (the panels across the street shed also, but the rest of his roof remains covered). I still want the guards to protect human health, my grill, the patio heater (which it completely wiped out), etc., but if Tesla put out a statement saying they did this intentionally to get the roof back producing as soon as possible, I'd probably nod and say "makes sense."

It is a good point, and one thought I had was to only put them on our north-facing roof since that is the front of the house and where anybody would approach. Since it produces so little in winter, having the snow remain longer on that side would not be a big issue. On the back, the A/C unit is the only concern, and it seems to have a sturdy case. But the one other concern I still have besides those you mentioned is the gutters. I don't think it is a big issue with all-snow events, but where it freezes it may be a problem. (And really, though I like clearing the roof sooner, the actual impact of the lost production is going to be small.)

I have been paying more attention to other roofs in the neighborhood, and it is a mix - with a range of houses with different angles and materials (from various slates to asphalt) there are some other ones clear and some still fully covered. But out main roof does seem to be one of the first to clear. On the other hand, our last bit of roof to slide (a smaller side roof) just happened about an hour ago.

 

[trautmane2]

I'm also getting more used to the shedding, but it's been a lot more work for me to shovel - probably comes close to doubling my normal driveway work. I would likely only place guards on the front side of my house (which faces north) to protect anyone coming or going.

The roof rake has worked really well. Lesson to self: always let things sit for an hour after using the rake. I got dumped on once today while I was cleaning up a pile from raking.

 

[Zorg]

For a house in the mountains designed properly (where the roof is not sloping toward your driveway), this is great. Snow won't accumulated much and will shed in small increments.

 

[dhquigley]

Today's heavy snow flying off my DMV roof reminded me why I do want the guards.

 

[ScoGold]

I had Tesla Panels installed 3 weeks ago and we’ve had two storms in the northeast, totaling about 20”. The house is 7 years old and the gutters and siding are ripping off the house right under the side of my house with 11 panels. Oddly enough, the damage is right where they put their ladder to access the roof.

Is this something I should complain to Tesla about the install to see if they’d pay for the damage and install Sno-Guards? I jumped out of my seat when I heard the avalanches the first time.

 

[trautmane2]

the gutters and siding are ripping off the house right under the side of my house with 11 panels. Oddly enough, the damage is right where they put their ladder to access the roof.

Sorry to hear that - I doubt the snow gutter damage has anything to do with the ladder placement during your panel install.

Is this something I should complain to Tesla about the install to see if they’d pay for the damage and install Sno-Guards?

I think it certainly won't hurt to ask, but my guess is that they consider gutters and snow guards as outside of their scope (particularly for panel installs).

 

[smaster553]

Sorry to hear that - I doubt the snow gutter damage has anything to do with the ladder placement during your panel install.



I think it certainly won't hurt to ask, but my guess is that they consider gutters and snow guards as outside of their scope (particularly for panel installs).

One edge of my 13 gutters also was damaged. It essentially gets removed from the facia board, and this is due to the sheer weight of snow stuck on the edge due to re-freezing and turning to water based ice. The weight of ice is huge.

Adding supports where they are weak is a good solution and most probably you cna do yourself or have a handyman do it (that's what I will do).

This has also happened as now they leave 12-18" from the edge due to fire requirements, hence ice builds up. If the panels were till the edge the snow would have just flowed down on first melt.

 

[h2ofun]

I was under the assumption that folks with snow did not have gutters because of issues being posted

 

[wjgjr]

I was under the assumption that folks with snow did not have gutters because of issues being posted

Not at all - places that get the most snow (including mountainous regions and, I would guess, some of the most northern parts of the US) seem less likely to have gutters, but they are almost universal in the places I have lived, where snowstorms happen virtually every winter but are usually measured in inches and not feet. Generally, gutters should have no trouble dealing with some snow and shedding, as long as it isn't too much an as long as things can mostly clear off between storms.

The only time I had issues with gutters was back in 2010 when the DC area got hit with over 2 feet of snow in under a week (in two storms.) The piled up snow and ice ripped the gutters right off our back roof. I think practically half the homeowners in the area had insurance claims after that event.

 

[h2ofun]

Not at all - places that get the most snow (including mountainous regions and, I would guess, some of the most northern parts of the US) seem less likely to have gutters, but they are almost universal in the places I have lived, where snowstorms happen virtually every winter but are usually measured in inches and not feet. Generally, gutters should have no trouble dealing with some snow and shedding, as long as it isn't too much an as long as things can mostly clear off between storms.

The only time I had issues with gutters was back in 2010 when the DC area got hit with over 2 feet of snow in under a week (in two storms.) The piled up snow and ice ripped the gutters right off our back roof. I think practically half the homeowners in the area had insurance claims after that event.

But why does it seem all of a sudden some folks change their roof, and now the gutters become an issue?

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

But why does it seem all of a sudden some folks change their roof, and now the gutters become an issue?

Snow on rough surface (asphalt shingles) doesn’t slide easily, and melts rather than sheds. Snow on slick surface sheds rather than melt.

 

[h2ofun]

Snow on rough surface (asphalt shingles) doesn’t slide easily, and melts rather than sheds. Snow on slick surface sheds rather than melt.

True, but seems a person would have taken this into account and have removed the gutters, just like if they have installed metal roofing.

 

[wjgjr]

Snow on rough surface (asphalt shingles) doesn’t slide easily, and melts rather than sheds. Snow on slick surface sheds rather than melt.

Exactly. Additionally, some of us did have snow guards on our prior roof but (for now) do not on the Tesla roof.

This is the first winter for v3 solar roofs on the east coast (and I do not know how many were installed on the west coast for last winter in snowy ares) so there is clearly some ongoing learning about the properties of the roof.

True, but seems a person would have taken this into account and have removed the gutters, just like if they have installed metal roofing.

In addition to not entirely knowing how the roof would behave, you can't just remove gutters, unless you also plan to turn your basement into a pool (and even in homes without one, crawl spaces and foundation issues are still applicable.) It requires significant work to re-design a home that relies on gutters to move water away from the foundation. Some combination of extending the roof, re-grading, adding drainage channels, etc., would be necessary. It seems pretty clear that the much simpler and cheaper solution is just going to be adding snow guards to slow the shedding down in areas where it might pose an issue for gutters or people/things on the ground.

 

[h2ofun]

Exactly. Additionally, some of us did have snow guards on our prior roof but (for now) do not on the Tesla roof.

This is the first winter for v3 solar roofs on the east coast (and I do not know how many were installed on the west coast for last winter in snowy ares) so there is clearly some ongoing learning about the properties of the roof.



In addition to not entirely knowing how the roof would behave, you can't just remove gutters, unless you also plan to turn your basement into a pool. It requires significant work to re-design a home that relies on gutters to move water away from the foundation. Some combination of extending the roof, re-grading, adding drainage channels, etc., would be necessary. It seems pretty clear that the much simpler and cheaper solution is just going to be adding snow guards to slow the shedding down in areas where it might pose an issue for gutters or people/things on the ground.

Agreed, but why was the solution for this issue not part of the original design and then implementation of this changes?

 

[wjgjr]

Agreed, but why was the solution for this issue not part of the original design and then implementation of this changes?

Ask Tesla?

The answer seems to be some combination of Tesla not recognizing/testing the issue, underestimating the issue, or underestimating customers' concerns (whether founded or not.) It seems like they are working on the solution now, so hopefully we will have something for next year. And, to be fair to Tesla, at the moment I don't think there have been reports of notable damage from a solar roof due to snow/shedding, but I think it is clear that there is a risk that should be addressed. Fortunately, it does seem like a pretty simple fix.

 

[mspohr]

I live at Lake Tahoe and we get a lot of snow. Very few gutters here because the snow rips them off. I don't have any gutters on any of the three buildings on my site. Snow just accumulates (sometimes up to 6 or 8 feet... the buildings are designed for that snow load) then melts off. I do have a garage with a metal roof (others are composite) which sheds and which I don't particularly like. Fortunately, it sheds to the back side where there are no doors, windows, etc.
I have several solar arrays (freestanding). They all shed almost immediately after storms.
So... solar panels shed since they are slippery. You need to allow for that (no gutters). Where we are, there is too much snow to install any kind of snow stops since they just get torn off and with solar panels, you want them to shed, not retain snow.

 

[h2ofun]

I live at Lake Tahoe and we get a lot of snow. Very few gutters here because the snow rips them off. I don't have any gutters on any of the three buildings on my site. Snow just accumulates (sometimes up to 6 or 8 feet... the buildings are designed for that snow load) then melts off. I do have a garage with a metal roof (others are composite) which sheds and which I don't particularly like. Fortunately, it sheds to the back side where there are no doors, windows, etc.
I have several solar arrays (freestanding). They all shed almost immediately after storms.
So... solar panels shed since they are slippery. You need to allow for that (no gutters). Where we are, there is too much snow to install any kind of snow stops since they just get torn off and with solar panels, you want them to shed, not retain snow.

Yep, that is what I thought a good roof design would be

 

[wjgjr]

Yep, that is what I thought a good roof design would be

It absolutely makes sense for Lake Tahoe, as it qualifies as one of the areas I described with snowstorms measured in feet. And I believe it was commented on earlier in this thread, but the solar roof product might actually be great for some people such areas because the roof does shed quickly, potentially minimizing lost production and also helping ensure snow does not pile up on the roof. But that roof design is not ideal, nor is it common, in most areas of the US, because those types of snowstorms are not common.

 

[h2ofun]

It absolutely makes sense for Lake Tahoe, as it qualifies as one of the areas I described with snowstorms measured in feet. And I believe it was commented on earlier in this thread, but the solar roof product might actually be great for some people such areas because the roof does shed quickly, potentially minimizing lost production and also helping ensure snow does not pile up on the roof. But that roof design is not ideal, nor is it common, in most areas of the US, because those types of snowstorms are not common.

I know folks where I live who build without gutters. They really are a pain in the butt. But, unless the house was designed correctly at the beginning, ...