I’m sure that Tesla Solar Tiles are tougher for walking on than traditional solar panels, clay tile or slate roofs. Not sure if they are tough as plain old composite shingles though.
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Solar Glass Snow Avalanches
- Thread starter trautmane2
- Start date
I’m sure that Tesla Solar Tiles are tougher for walking on than traditional solar panels, clay tile or slate roofs. Not sure if they are tough as plain old composite shingles though.
From what I've observed and from what some of the installers told me, the tiles are plenty strong to walk on - their weak spot is the edges. During my install three PV tiles were broken, most likely by tether clamps getting dragged across tile edges. My gutter installer also broke one small non-PV tile with a ladder ( see Solar Glass Repair / Replacing Tiles ).
The main reason I wouldn't want to have to walk on solar glass too often is that the tiles can get very slippery. If you have a steep roof like me, it can be tricky to walk on it even when it is dry.
By way of update, the sno-guard folks took my plans (active tiles versus inactive) and mapped out where the roofing company can put the tiles. Easy on front and garage, where I have more inactive tiles. Back roof proving challenging, since it is all active. Trying to see what we can do around vent pipes (inactive) and at the very bottom. Was trying to map that out for him. We all have about 15 inches (high) of inactive at the bottom, right?
Nice - I'm curious ... did they map out multiple rows of guards?
My garage (both sides) and main rear roofs have PV tiles starting in the second row from the bottom. The tiles are almost 17 inches high with some overlap, so 15 inches sounds right to me.
I'm assuming the main concerns with installing guards near or on PV tiles would be the guards themselves shading the tiles and/or having snow piled up at the guard blocking the PV. I wonder if transparent guards exist and if so, could that reduce the shading problem? Maybe the guards are so small it doesn't matter? Does anyone know how clear glass/plastic might affect a PV tile underneath it?
One of the Tesla guys installing our roof weighed 240 or so. When I asked him if I could walk on the roof he jumped up and down on the tiles he just installed and said "Yep".
A big change from the previous lightweight tile roof that would crunch and crack under foot.
An ice storm last week created a small avalanche mess in my driveway along with the periodic thundering rolls that are heard inside - but it was small enough that I didn't need to worry about clearing roof edges to prevent gutter damage or ice dams. We're expecting a big-ish snow storm for our area starting early tomorrow: 8-10 inches with 20% chance of 15 inches. In anticipation of the bigger storm, I ordered this roof rake which is supposed to be delivered today: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A16VS4/
I'm curious whether anyone else has done anything to mitigate snow problems in the past month and am also curious how the solar roofs fare with this new storm.
While only tangentially related, I happened to read this article today which has some interesting avalanche simulation videos that others might like:
Nine Russian adventurers mysteriously froze to death—a new theory explains why
It also mentions an alternative explanation for the problem I'm having with the solar glass roof: yetis!
I'm curious whether anyone else has done anything to mitigate snow problems in the past month and am also curious how the solar roofs fare with this new storm.
While only tangentially related, I happened to read this article today which has some interesting avalanche simulation videos that others might like:
Nine Russian adventurers mysteriously froze to death—a new theory explains why
It also mentions an alternative explanation for the problem I'm having with the solar glass roof: yetis!
tstolze
Member
Here is what I use on my Solar Panels
https://www.amazon.com/SnoBrum-Push-Broom-Extendable-Telescoping-Scratching/dp/B010MFYL02
I have it attached to a 32 ft collapsible window cleaning pole.
Not the easiest to handle, but works well on our Ranch Home allowing me to clear most snows in 1-2 hours.
https://www.amazon.com/SnoBrum-Push-Broom-Extendable-Telescoping-Scratching/dp/B010MFYL02
I have it attached to a 32 ft collapsible window cleaning pole.
Not the easiest to handle, but works well on our Ranch Home allowing me to clear most snows in 1-2 hours.
I have not done anything at this time - we did have some slides last week, but nothing much. I will be interested to see how the roof behaves with an all-snow event, assuming that is what we get.
We just had storm watch activate here at 2:00, presumably due to the Winter Storm Warning that is now up for parts of the area. Since our PWs are in backup-only mode, this only triggered a brief spike of grid charging to top them off.
We just had storm watch activate here at 2:00, presumably due to the Winter Storm Warning that is now up for parts of the area. Since our PWs are in backup-only mode, this only triggered a brief spike of grid charging to top them off.
With the snow so far (2.5" here) the roof actually shedded the snow very quickly, and it really wasn't particularly dangerous for the gutters or people. I think it is more risky when the snow piles up a bit and gets mixed in with sleet or rain, making it much heavier. We are even generating a very small amount of solar power despite the continued light flurries.
We will see what happens tonight/tomorrow since there is more chance of mixed precipitation.
We will see what happens tonight/tomorrow since there is more chance of mixed precipitation.
Yeah - my guess is we have 3 to 4 inches here at this point and have had a similar experience (roof produced 1.5 kWh). Most of my snow avalanched off with a small amount getting caught by the gutters and a larger pile building up in the valley between my garage and front roofs.
The new roof rake worked great for this light fluffy snow. I was able to quickly clean off the edge piles while standing on the ground (much better than the ladder-in-freezing-rain nonsense I did last month). I couldn't reach everything in the bigger valley pile but pulling down the snow I could reach destabilized the pile enough so that the rest of it came down an hour later.
The new roof rake worked great for this light fluffy snow. I was able to quickly clean off the edge piles while standing on the ground (much better than the ladder-in-freezing-rain nonsense I did last month). I couldn't reach everything in the bigger valley pile but pulling down the snow I could reach destabilized the pile enough so that the rest of it came down an hour later.
jhn_
Member
I bought one of these and screwed it to a stake I stick in the ground by the front wall when a significant snow is coming.
Good idea! When my neighbor's kids came out to sled today, I warned them to try to stay clear of the avalanches and run away if they hear a rumble. Obviously, I don't want anyone to get hurt under any circumstance but I'm curious what my liability would be if a pile of ice came down on someone else.
Enginerd
Member
What about using something like this
Snow guards are protruding metal or plastic devices (or lengths of bars) that are installed in intermittent locations on a roof that are intended to prevent accumulated snow and ice from sliding in great sheets off the roof. They encourage the gradual melt and breakdown of the snow mass into smaller sections. They vary in their method of attachment to the roof, as well as their color (they usually match the roof or are
transparent), and their material (typically, they're made of metal or polycarbonate).
Snow and ice are surprisingly heavy -- a single cubic foot of ice weighs more than 52 pounds -- and when they avalanche from a roof, they can cause a great deal of property damage and injury. Roof avalanches can injure pedestrians and livestock, bend gutters, and damage vehicles, lower roofs, HVAC equipment, and other property below. This typically happens when warm weather follows a snowstorm, creating meltwater that lubricates the roof.
In many cases, snow guard systems are not included during initial roof installations because of the additional cost and the general lack of awareness of their need. Nevertheless, building owners can be held liable for any property damage and personal injury resulting from excessive snow if it could have been prevented with snow-retention systems. Investing in the right snow-management system may mitigate liability, prevent property damage, and reduce threats to pedestrian safety.
Snow guards are not always effective or helpful, however; in very heavy snow, they may not be tall enough to resist the snow's downward force, and shingle roofs typically have enough resistance to hold the snow naturally. To act as effective restraints, snow guards should be installed by qualified roofers who can competently consider factors such as sheathing type and thicknesses, roof type, roof slope, and snow loads in determining proper snow guard sizing, design and placement. Homeowners and handymen who attempt snow guard installation may install them in an improper pattern, or only weakly attach them to the roof, which may actually increase the potential damage due to falling snow and ice. Also, snow guards should never be used as anchors in fall-arrest systems, as they are not strong enough to support roof workers, and the guards themselves may be damaged.
Inspection
Snow guard placement should be consistent with the following safety and efficiency standards:
Snow guards are protruding metal or plastic devices (or lengths of bars) that are installed in intermittent locations on a roof that are intended to prevent accumulated snow and ice from sliding in great sheets off the roof. They encourage the gradual melt and breakdown of the snow mass into smaller sections. They vary in their method of attachment to the roof, as well as their color (they usually match the roof or are
Snow and ice are surprisingly heavy -- a single cubic foot of ice weighs more than 52 pounds -- and when they avalanche from a roof, they can cause a great deal of property damage and injury. Roof avalanches can injure pedestrians and livestock, bend gutters, and damage vehicles, lower roofs, HVAC equipment, and other property below. This typically happens when warm weather follows a snowstorm, creating meltwater that lubricates the roof.
In many cases, snow guard systems are not included during initial roof installations because of the additional cost and the general lack of awareness of their need. Nevertheless, building owners can be held liable for any property damage and personal injury resulting from excessive snow if it could have been prevented with snow-retention systems. Investing in the right snow-management system may mitigate liability, prevent property damage, and reduce threats to pedestrian safety.
Snow guards are not always effective or helpful, however; in very heavy snow, they may not be tall enough to resist the snow's downward force, and shingle roofs typically have enough resistance to hold the snow naturally. To act as effective restraints, snow guards should be installed by qualified roofers who can competently consider factors such as sheathing type and thicknesses, roof type, roof slope, and snow loads in determining proper snow guard sizing, design and placement. Homeowners and handymen who attempt snow guard installation may install them in an improper pattern, or only weakly attach them to the roof, which may actually increase the potential damage due to falling snow and ice. Also, snow guards should never be used as anchors in fall-arrest systems, as they are not strong enough to support roof workers, and the guards themselves may be damaged.
Inspection
Snow guard placement should be consistent with the following safety and efficiency standards:
- Snow guards should be mounted on the lowest portion of a roofing panel where the snow and ice actually move. Snow guards mounted on a high seam will be ineffective when the snow and ice compact beneath them.
- Snow guards should not be mounted beyond the bearing wall on an extended roof section, as this placement can result in ice damming and roof damage.
- Snow guards should be installed over sidewalks, doorways, driveways, and anywhere else that people are likely to walk or gather, or where property is stored.
- Check the mounting tape, if it is present. Tape has very little or no resistance to ultraviolet light and tends to roll up underneath the snow guard when exposed to shear loads.
- There should not be more snow guards installed than are necessary, as they might allow too much snow to accumulate and damage the roof. Snow guards should be installed in the critical areas listed, but not necessarily in areas where snow and ice can be released safely onto the ground by gravity and natural warming.
- Only adhesive should be used to mount snow guards to standing-seam, floating-type roofs, as this technique allows for thermal expansion and contraction of the panels. It also allows for quick release during extreme snow accumulation that might otherwise damage the panels.
So, I've been meaning to update this group and now is as good a time as any. First, one comment on the snow, it does seem like my roof "sheds" every 2-3 inches, which seems to reduce the potential for the major avalanche. Don't get me wrong, it's still a horrific sound and was not all that comfortable when it got me while shoveling the front stoop, but not as bad as it could be I suppose. Second, on the guard issue. I have some updated information. First, Tesla is getting ready to test their product. I imagine this means it will be available for installation before next winter. This is new as of about a week ago. Second, I have been in really good communication with Sno-safe, the company that makes snow guards that adhere to glass (and that Tesla turned me on to when I first started inquiring about this). They not only sent samples of the product, but also worked with me to put together a grid of where to put the guards to keep them on inactive tiles but have the best shot of working to slow the avalanches. That information is now with Tesla, and I have the two companies in contact so we can figure out if Tesla will "ok" the plan, perhaps help with installation, and also to see if they have comments on the site plan. Will update again when I hear back, but my guess is that by Spring we will have some goof information here.
Thanks for the update and pushing Tesla on this - who are you working with at Tesla? Is it just support, or is there a specific person/group? At some point I probably will need to contact them further to register my interest. I am hoping Tesla comes out with an official solution, just to address any potential warranty issues, whether it is their own or an authorized third party.
It has been an interesting storm in terms of the mix of precipitation and how the roof is shedding it, with Sunday having some light/medium snow and below freezing, where the shedding didn't seem to bad, followed by the freezing precipitation Sunday night-Monday and what appeared to be heavier avalanches, and now a couple more inches of lighter snow despite somewhat warmer temps, also with lighter shedding.
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