SolarCity (SCTY)

[callmesam]

Ok sure, if that's what you think. I gave my reasons for my opinion and you go all snippy.
What do you think would happen if Musk sells the shares he gets from is next options tranche windfall? He already said he will hold them...first in last out.

Sorry for any snippiness.

I was asking for facts and figures as I think it would help discern whether this is a serious concern or noise.

How many shares does he own and how much do these exercised options represent of his holding?

80% 50% 5%, 1%?

That's a much more important piece of information.

Were these part of a timed sale?

That we see an insider selling shares isn't very helpful.

As far as "losses", SCTY is making 20 year contracts that pay off over time. There are often investments in infrastructure in heavy growth phases of a business.

SCTY buys a marketing firm Paramount, for $120M.

Then they buy ZEP, a quick install hardware company helping them "double throughput" for $158M.

Then buys SILEVO, solar panel technology (with tax package), from the State of NY for $350M.

32% US Market share (both MW and % of customers) and addresses less than two tenths of 1% penetration.

Regardless of whether the PPA or outright sales model is adopted, Tesla is in the driver's seat to be one of the largest producers and storers of renewable energy in the US.

 

[Zzzz...]

How many shares does he own and how much do these exercised options represent of his holding?

80% 50% 5%, 1%?

That's a much more important piece of information.

How come this is important? Almost certainly these sales are his major source of income. And what make you think that he is in position to invest ANY money into SolarCity or any other company?

From what we know he could be very well just spending them now instead of waiting till he be 80yo retiree.

 

[NigelM]

Guys, if you're not familiar with them read up on 10b5-1 plans. It's good corporate governance to have one and Rive filed his last year to make the sales now; it's sensible for him to diverse a little or maybe he's building a house or something, the point is that there's nothing ominous in the recent trades.

Federal Regs/SEC/10b5-1
Investopedia.com/terms/rule-10b5-1
Wikipedia.org/SEC_Rule_10b5-1

Now if the trading was happening without a 10b5-1 in place that would be a different story...

 

[clmason]

Guys, if you're not familiar with them read up on 10b5-1 plans. It's good corporate governance to have one and Rive filed his last year to make the sales now; it's sensible for him to diverse a little or maybe he's building a house or something, the point is that there's nothing ominous in the recent trades.

Federal Regs/SEC/10b5-1
Investopedia.com/terms/rule-10b5-1
Wikipedia.org/SEC_Rule_10b5-1

Now if the trading was happening without a 10b5-1 in place that would be a different story...

I don't really agree that since he is not breaking the law all is rosy. A CEO or insider can file his/her sales plans via 10b5-1 in accordance with the laws and still make millions when shareholders are left holding shares in a sinking ship. I think it requires more analysis than blindly accepting all is good because is was done by the books. CEOs and board members can and do get relieved of their positions by making out like bandits when shareholder don't see good returns. (Not saying that will happen with SCTY.)


And in the case of SCTY I sold at 72 because I felt that compared to their peers SCTY had popped and future growth was limited. Whereas TSLA or other Solar companies are at a fraction of the market cap they will eventually be awarded. I decided to realize my 350% gains in SCTY and plan to reinvest elsewhere. For the record I did not sell because of the insider selling, I've followed them closely since the IPO and happen to agree with Sleepyheads and think some others here are a bit too exuberant.

 

[NigelM]

It's not about "not breaking the law"; Rive 10b5-1 was put in place last August. I've run public companies and there's not a CEO on earth who can predict his share price 9 months out; you just have to plan your personal finances the best you can and then commit to your plan.

 

[DaveT]

And in the case of SCTY I sold at 72 because I felt that compared to their peers SCTY had popped and future growth was limited. Whereas TSLA or other Solar companies are at a fraction of the market cap they will eventually be awarded. I decided to realize my 350% gains in SCTY and plan to reinvest elsewhere.

I don't want to add to the snippiness of this thread since I'd rather be engaged in constructive dialogue. First, congrats on your SCTY gains.

Regarding other solar companies vs SCTY, SCTY in my opinion has the following advantages:
1. Stellar management - includes Elon Musk as Chairman and strategic advisor
2. Fastest growing mainstream solar company - growing at 100% per year in terms of installs, customers, personnel.
3. Most complete vertical integration of any solar company - from marketing, permitting, install, maintenance, mounting equipment, now panels, and eventually inverters. This allows SolarCity to continue to drive down costs (along with economies of scale) and offer an unique value proposition from which they can and are accruing good margin.

But I'm not going to knock other solar companies, as I've mentioned on this thread that there are some that I find as decent investments (though I don't hold any long-term positions).

All in all, solar is a massively growing industry and there are going to be multiple investment opportunities. I just haven't found a better opportunity than SCTY (but I advise SCTY holders to have a very long-term outlook, ie., 10-15 years).

ps., I have to admit, and I've said this before on this thread, that I'm a fan of CSIQ. I think they might have the best management out of the non-SCTY solar companies, and they've proven that they can grow their company in a smart way. I don't have a long-term position in CSIQ (currently), but I respect that company a lot.

Here's a link to CSIQ's latest investor presentation. It's notable that they're projecting revenue growth of 75% YOY (from $1.6 billion in 2013 to $2.7-2.9 billion in 2014). Impressive.

 

[mountaineer]

I have first hand experience. I had a system installed by Solar City and everything went very well. The city inspector told me that Solar City "always does the job right the first time". He said most other companies have to return a few times until the city requirements are met.

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I've had experience with both ends of this.

I help run a restaurant in my semi-retirement; Yelp is reputed to slant the display of reviews one way or the other depending on how much the business spends on advertising. They only "slant" the reviews, which means that businesses with consistent (good or bad) reviews still come across that way, but most have mixed reviews and the slant can be bad for the business.

We have a Solar City installation, and it was great, and we're currently negotiating to expand it. That's a positive review.

Fantastic! so how big is your solar system and how much savings do you realize on your monthly electricity bill? Also, what type of maintenance work does SCTY need to perform on your solar system? and how often?
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​

 

[ggr]

Fantastic! so how big is your solar system and how much savings do you realize on your monthly electricity bill? Also, what type of maintenance work does SCTY need to perform on your solar system? and how often?

We currently have a 6-year-old 3kW system. I can't remember what our electricity bill used to be, but we now pay a bit over $1k/year (SDG&E sends an account monthly but you only have to settle once a year) to support the house and two Teslas and a pool; I also work from home now so power usage has gone up. The pool has its own solar heater, but that's old and starting to leak, so we are looking to replace/move it, and put PV on that part of the roof for an additional 3.75kW. The estimates are that that will pretty much zero out our bill. Payback (after tax rebate) will be about 6-9 years.

As for maintenance, we had an inverter failure about a year into ownership. I got a call from Solar City's monitoring people, they organized a time to have it replaced... all perfectly simple. Nothing else needed except some tree trimming.

 

[mountaineer]

We currently have a 6-year-old 3kW system. I can't remember what our electricity bill used to be, but we now pay a bit over $1k/year (SDG&E sends an account monthly but you only have to settle once a year) to support the house and two Teslas and a pool; I also work from home now so power usage has gone up. The pool has its own solar heater, but that's old and starting to leak, so we are looking to replace/move it, and put PV on that part of the roof for an additional 3.75kW. The estimates are that that will pretty much zero out our bill. Payback (after tax rebate) will be about 6-9 years.

As for maintenance, we had an inverter failure about a year into ownership. I got a call from Solar City's monitoring people, they organized a time to have it replaced... all perfectly simple. Nothing else needed except some tree trimming.

Thanks a lot! Your electricity bill is exceedingly low. I got a house+pool without any heater in Dallas, and my annual bill is more than $4K. So the ROI is really impressive. So how often do you need to wash the panels to get rid of dirt and dust and how much does it cost to hire some one to do it？

 

[sleepyhead]

Seems like Mr. Rive has been cashing out a substantial amount of shares the last 5 weeks. Net proceeds of ~$9,000,000.

I'm out of SCTY right now but watching and I don't like this.
Now if I were able to buy at .87/share and sell at $71/share I would not be complaining! And in this case i don't think its healthy diversification...

Date	NAME	TRANSACTION	SHARES	PRICE	VALUE
7/3/2014	Mr. Lyndon R. Rive	Sold	30,293	$71.58	$2,170,000
7/3/2014	Mr. Lyndon R. Rive	Bought	25,964	$0.81	($21,031)
7/3/2014	Mr. Lyndon R. Rive	Sold	12,982	$71.58	$929,240
6/27/2014	Mr. Lyndon R. Rive	Bought	153,450	$0.81	($124,295)
6/27/2014	Mr. Lyndon R. Rive	Sold	76,725	$70.76	$5,430,000

Guys, if you're not familiar with them read up on 10b5-1 plans. It's good corporate governance to have one and Rive filed his last year to make the sales now; it's sensible for him to diverse a little or maybe he's building a house or something, the point is that there's nothing ominous in the recent trades.

Federal Regs/SEC/10b5-1
Investopedia.com/terms/rule-10b5-1
Wikipedia.org/SEC_Rule_10b5-1

Now if the trading was happening without a 10b5-1 in place that would be a different story...

It's not about "not breaking the law"; Rive 10b5-1 was put in place last August. I've run public companies and there's not a CEO on earth who can predict his share price 9 months out; you just have to plan your personal finances the best you can and then commit to your plan.

NigelM - I agree with you that 10b5-1 sales are nothing to worry about and good corporate governance. Heck, I just put half my money in GTAT, right after the CEO sold about 100,000 shares via a 10b5-1. But in the case of SCTY, I see something EXTREMELY WRONG with Lyndon Rives sale of 120,000 shares; let me connect the dots for you guys:

You guys remember last October when SCTY was trying to raise capital, and they couldn't get enough interest from people to buy the shares (not sure if the last part is true, but my understanding was that they couldn't get interest)? So SCTY, completely out of left field, decided to issue 2015 guidance in order to jack up the stock price to raise more capital. On top of that Elon Musk and Lyndon Rive agreed to buy 560,000 shares of SCTY as part of the capital raise to show the rest of the investment community that they have faith in SCTY. Well in the end the bought less than 400,000 shares, o/w Lyndon Rive bought 107,434 shares.

If what NigelM says is true that Lyndon Rive put his 10b5-1 plan in place last August (just a couple months before the capital raise) to sell 120,000 shares of SCTY (just 8 months after the huge "vote of confidence" that Lyndon Rive gave SCTY by buying 107,434 shares), then this whole thing is a slap in the face for SCTY shareholders and Lyndon Rive is a joke and making a complete mockery out of investors and shareholders.

SCTY already diluted the heck out of shareholders by doubling share count over the past 2 years, and now we see that they are dishonest and misleading shareholders by playing these "vote of confidence" games. I am sure that Elon does have confidence in SCTY, and probably will not be selling his shares. But what Lyndon, the CEO, did is completely unethical and the guy is a joke in my book for trying to fool shareholders. The truth always comes out, and I am always happy to do the detective work to point out these jokesters.

Disclosure: I just recently cashed out my deep ITM SCTY J15 30/40 Bull Call Spread for 92% of max value (I wanted to hold to maturity, or at least Sep. for LTCG, but I needed to raise capital somehow to buy more GTAT on this illegally fabricated pullback by UBS, who had notes due July 10-15 that cost UBS a lot more money the higher GTAT's stock price was. This is another example on Wall St. how the big players, i.e. CEO's and investment banks, screw over the little guy, i.e. retail investor. But I digress). Therefore, I now do not have any SCTY positions, and absolutely do not have any short positions in the stock either. But I do hope that the stock keeps going up, because I will be looking for an entry point to short once it goes all bubbly again. At the same time, I will go long the stock if it crashes another 30%. I think that SCTY is a good trading vehicle. I actually think that the stock will be a lot higher 5-10 years from now, but fear that there is a 20%-30% chance that the business model will fail the shareholders, i.e. not deliver decent returns, and therefore I don't buy as a long-term investment due to huge perceived risks.

But the main reason I am not a fan of SCTY is because they are an unethical company as proven by this whole capital raising mockery they made out of shareholders, ripping off customers by pocketing the whole benefit of installing a solar system for themselves while the customer is left holding the bag on a lease in the form of depreciated home value due to solar lease (yes your house may lose as much as 10% in value due to solar lease, while owning a system can increase your property value by up to $25,000); note I am not a fan of SPWR (or any other company) leasing either. On top of that they screw over the taxpayers by jacking up the "appraised" system value price in order to maximize MACRS depreciation, so that Goldman Sachs can pay less in taxes and screw over the taxpayers (just what we need: an investment bank screwing over the taxpayers even more).

I am sorry, but SolarCity is a complete joke of a company to me! Extremely unethical in my book...

edit: jacking up the "appraised" solar system value price also means that SCTY is screwing the taxpayers over by pocketing 30% on this higher "appraised" value than the actual value of the system, which would be a much lower value; but that would mean less taxpayer dollars for SCTY to pocket for their own coffers, so that the executives can get their tens/hundreds of millions of dollars.

Also, make sure to read my hyperlink in the last paragraph about how solar leases can significantly lower the value of your home during resale, and how owning a system can actually increase the value of your home (I point I have been arguing here for over a year).

I am not a solar installer, and I have no positions in SCTY. Everything I write here is my own, unbiased, and honest opinion on this matter; and I understand that many people will disagree with me. That is what makes a market...

 

[ggr]

Thanks a lot! Your electricity bill is exceedingly low. I got a house+pool without any heater in Dallas, and my annual bill is more than $4K. So the ROI is really impressive. So how often do you need to wash the panels to get rid of dirt and dust and how much does it cost to hire some one to do it？

Laziness wins... they get washed once a year, when it rains... :-/

 

[xhawk101]

I'm my case that's daily lol

 

[Zzzz...]

once a year, when it rains

This do sounds like California

 

[sleepyhead]

Thanks a lot! Your electricity bill is exceedingly low. I got a house+pool without any heater in Dallas, and my annual bill is more than $4K. So the ROI is really impressive. So how often do you need to wash the panels to get rid of dirt and dust and how much does it cost to hire some one to do it？

If you live in Dallas, then you are in the Oncor TDSP service area. Oncor is offering a very generous rebate for installing solar panels right now (at least they were 3 months ago when I installed mine, and the program has been going on for at least a couple of years).

If you get a lease with SCTY, then they will pocket your 30% tax credit, they will take away your generous Oncor rebate, and you will be left holding the bag when you try to sell your house and have to lower your asking price by $10k - $20k just to get people interested in buying your home.

But ignoring the home resale part, I also live in ONCOR TDSP area and just installed a 7.7kW solar system on my roof and it only cost me $9k out of pocket. This will give me a cost of about 2.5c/kWh ($0.025/kWh). Whereas, if I went with a solar city lease, I would probably have to pay 3x-6x (300% to 600%) more per kWh.

Do not lease a system from nobody, especially since Oncor offers very generous rebates. Find a reputable local installer that will do a solar system for around $3/W and then get your 30% tax credit and an Oncor rebate (mine was over $1/W) to bring your system cost down to about $1.30/W out of pocket.

BTW, ggr lives in San Diego, where the temperature is 75* year round and is nowhere near comparable to Texas. Get the biggest system that you can fit on your roof while Oncor is still offering these generous rebates. That way you will have about a 6 year payback period, and get to keep your solar system 30+ years. With a SCTY lease, you will have a 12-13 year payback period and then have to return the system to SCTY at the 20 year mark.

It is a no-brainer to buy in your situation if you are considering solar. Leasing a system in Dallas (with Oncor's generous solar rebate) is the worst financial decision you can make (unless you get an extremely good offer, such as $0.03/kWh on pre-paid lease or $0.06/kWh on a 20-year no money down lease).

 

[Jack6591]

If you live in Dallas, then you are in the Oncor TDSP service area. Oncor is offering a very generous rebate for installing solar panels right now (at least they were 3 months ago when I installed mine, and the program has been going on for at least a couple of years).

If you get a lease with SCTY, then they will pocket your 30% tax credit, they will take away your generous Oncor rebate, and you will be left holding the bag when you try to sell your house and have to lower your asking price by $10k - $20k just to get people interested in buying your home.

But ignoring the home resale part, I also live in ONCOR TDSP area and just installed a 7.7kW solar system on my roof and it only cost me $9k out of pocket. This will give me a cost of about 2.5c/kWh ($0.025/kWh). Whereas, if I went with a solar city lease, I would probably have to pay 3x-6x (300% to 600%) more per kWh.

Do not lease a system from nobody, especially since Oncor offers very generous rebates. Find a reputable local installer that will do a solar system for around $3/W and then get your 30% tax credit and an Oncor rebate (mine was over $1/W) to bring your system cost down to about $1.30/W out of pocket.

BTW, ggr lives in San Diego, where the temperature is 75* year round and is nowhere near comparable to Texas. Get the biggest system that you can fit on your roof while Oncor is still offering these generous rebates. That way you will have about a 6 year payback period, and get to keep your solar system 30+ years. With a SCTY lease, you will have a 12-13 year payback period and then have to return the system to SCTY at the 20 year mark.

It is a no-brainer to buy in your situation if you are considering solar. Leasing a system in Dallas (with Oncor's generous solar rebate) is the worst financial decision you can make (unless you get an extremely good offer, such as $0.03/kWh on pre-paid lease or $0.06/kWh on a 20-year no money down lease).

I worked for three years as a "Solar Rebate Inspector" at the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. In this capacity I was privy to both system financial data as well as technical data. I am in complete agreement with Sleepy regarding the advantages of purchasing vs leasing. Shop prudently and you will miles ahead for years to come.

I am vested in SolarCity because of their accomplished sales and marketing organization. Most residential solar customers will not burn the calories to ferret out the best terms and deals. That said, SolarCity provides an incredible turnkey solution. They simply reduce your monthly power bill.

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Just a couple thoughts on panel orientation. The ideal stationary (static) panel installation is facing due South, with the array pitched roughly at the latitude of the installation.

LADWP has used a couple variances. First, they consider everything from due South to due West as optimal, this favors afternoon production. Secondly, they consider everything from a horizontal pitch to installation latitude as optimal, this favors summer production. The idea being to produce the greatest amount of energy at peak loads. We all turn our air conditioning units on in the summer afternoons.

The devil in in the details is your utilitity company's "Time of Use" rate plan. The installation will affect production year after year. Plan your production to match the highest price power.

 

[clmason]

NigelM - I agree with you that 10b5-1 sales are nothing to worry about and good corporate governance. Heck, I just put half my money in GTAT, right after the CEO sold about 100,000 shares via a 10b5-1. But in the case of SCTY, I see something EXTREMELY WRONG with Lyndon Rives sale of 120,000 shares; let me connect the dots for you guys:

You guys remember last October when SCTY was trying to raise capital, and they couldn't get enough interest from people to buy the shares (not sure if the last part is true, but my understanding was that they couldn't get interest)? So SCTY, completely out of left field, decided to issue 2015 guidance in order to jack up the stock price to raise more capital. On top of that Elon Musk and Lyndon Rive agreed to buy 560,000 shares of SCTY as part of the capital raise to show the rest of the investment community that they have faith in SCTY. Well in the end the bought less than 400,000 shares, o/w Lyndon Rive bought 107,434 shares.

If what NigelM says is true that Lyndon Rive put his 10b5-1 plan in place last August (just a couple months before the capital raise) to sell 120,000 shares of SCTY (just 8 months after the huge "vote of confidence" that Lyndon Rive gave SCTY by buying 107,434 shares), then this whole thing is a slap in the face for SCTY shareholders and Lyndon Rive is a joke and making a complete mockery out of investors and shareholders.

SCTY already diluted the heck out of shareholders by doubling share count over the past 2 years, and now we see that they are dishonest and misleading shareholders by playing these "vote of confidence" games. I am sure that Elon does have confidence in SCTY, and probably will not be selling his shares. But what Lyndon, the CEO, did is completely unethical and the guy is a joke in my book for trying to fool shareholders. The truth always comes out, and I am always happy to do the detective work to point out these jokesters.

Disclosure: I just recently cashed out my deep ITM SCTY J15 30/40 Bull Call Spread for 92% of max value (I wanted to hold to maturity, or at least Sep. for LTCG, but I needed to raise capital somehow to buy more GTAT on this illegally fabricated pullback by UBS, who had notes due July 10-15 that cost UBS a lot more money the higher GTAT's stock price was. This is another example on Wall St. how the big players, i.e. CEO's and investment banks, screw over the little guy, i.e. retail investor. But I digress). Therefore, I now do not have any SCTY positions, and absolutely do not have any short positions in the stock either. But I do hope that the stock keeps going up, because I will be looking for an entry point to short once it goes all bubbly again. At the same time, I will go long the stock if it crashes another 30%. I think that SCTY is a good trading vehicle. I actually think that the stock will be a lot higher 5-10 years from now, but fear that there is a 20%-30% chance that the business model will fail the shareholders, i.e. not deliver decent returns, and therefore I don't buy as a long-term investment due to huge perceived risks.

But the main reason I am not a fan of SCTY, because they are an unethical company as proven by this hole capital raising mockery they made out of shareholders, ripping off customers by pocketing the whole benefit of installing a solar system for themselves while the customer is left holding the bag on a lease in the form of depreciated home value due to solar lease (yes your house may lose as much as 10% in value due to solar lease, while owning a system can increase your property value by up to $25,000); note I am not a fan of SPWR (or any other company) leasing either. On top of that they screw over the taxpayers by jacking up the "appraised" system value price in order to maximize MACRS depreciation, so that Goldman Sachs can pay less in taxes and screw over the taxpayers (just what we need: an investment bank screwing over the taxpayers even more).

I am sorry, but SolarCity is a complete joke of a company to me! Extremely unethical in my book...

edit: jacking up the "appraised" solar system value price also means that SCTY is screwing the taxpayers over by pocketing 30% on this higher "appraised" value than the actual value of the system, which would be a much lower value; but that would mean less taxpayer dollars for SCTY to pocket for their own coffers, so that the executives can get their tens/hundreds of millions of dollars.

Also, make sure to read my hyperlink in the last paragraph about how solar leases can significantly lower the value of your home during resale, and how owning a system can actually increase the value of your home (I point I have been arguing here for over a year).

I am not a solar installer, and I have no positions in SCTY. Everything I write here is my own, unbiased, and honest opinion on this matter; and I understand that many people will disagree with me. That is what makes a market...

Wow and well said.

 

[ggies07]

If you live in Dallas, then you are in the Oncor TDSP service area. Oncor is offering a very generous rebate for installing solar panels right now (at least they were 3 months ago when I installed mine, and the program has been going on for at least a couple of years).

If you get a lease with SCTY, then they will pocket your 30% tax credit, they will take away your generous Oncor rebate, and you will be left holding the bag when you try to sell your house and have to lower your asking price by $10k - $20k just to get people interested in buying your home.

But ignoring the home resale part, I also live in ONCOR TDSP area and just installed a 7.7kW solar system on my roof and it only cost me $9k out of pocket. This will give me a cost of about 2.5c/kWh ($0.025/kWh). Whereas, if I went with a solar city lease, I would probably have to pay 3x-6x (300% to 600%) more per kWh.

Do not lease a system from nobody, especially since Oncor offers very generous rebates. Find a reputable local installer that will do a solar system for around $3/W and then get your 30% tax credit and an Oncor rebate (mine was over $1/W) to bring your system cost down to about $1.30/W out of pocket.

BTW, ggr lives in San Diego, where the temperature is 75* year round and is nowhere near comparable to Texas. Get the biggest system that you can fit on your roof while Oncor is still offering these generous rebates. That way you will have about a 6 year payback period, and get to keep your solar system 30+ years. With a SCTY lease, you will have a 12-13 year payback period and then have to return the system to SCTY at the 20 year mark.

It is a no-brainer to buy in your situation if you are considering solar. Leasing a system in Dallas (with Oncor's generous solar rebate) is the worst financial decision you can make (unless you get an extremely good offer, such as $0.03/kWh on pre-paid lease or $0.06/kWh on a 20-year no money down lease).

So since you hate leasing so much, what would you suggest someone like me to do? I dont have $9,000 just sitting around, but could get on solar immediately from someone like SolarCity. So do you want more people to move to sustainable energy or not?

 

[blakegallagher]

It is a no-brainer to buy in your situation if you are considering solar. Leasing a system in Dallas (with Oncor's generous solar rebate) is the worst financial decision you can make (unless you get an extremely good offer, such as $0.03/kWh on pre-paid lease or $0.06/kWh on a 20-year no money down lease).

*note This was not a complete quote

I don't agree that it is a no brainer. Depending on someone's situation I would argue there could be much better uses for that 9k depending on the person. For instance possibly buying 9k worth of Tesla Stock. Over the life time of the solar panels the stock could arguably go to 2000 a share which I think would be better than any additional savings you got from buying Solar vs Leasing.

I think for many people buying solar might be the best option but I think Lease will be the way to go for many other people.

 

[DaveT]

NigelM - I agree with you that 10b5-1 sales are nothing to worry about and good corporate governance. Heck, I just put half my money in GTAT, right after the CEO sold about 100,000 shares via a 10b5-1. But in the case of SCTY, I see something EXTREMELY WRONG with Lyndon Rives sale of 120,000 shares; let me connect the dots for you guys:

You guys remember last October when SCTY was trying to raise capital, and they couldn't get enough interest from people to buy the shares (not sure if the last part is true, but my understanding was that they couldn't get interest)? So SCTY, completely out of left field, decided to issue 2015 guidance in order to jack up the stock price to raise more capital. On top of that Elon Musk and Lyndon Rive agreed to buy 560,000 shares of SCTY as part of the capital raise to show the rest of the investment community that they have faith in SCTY. Well in the end the bought less than 400,000 shares, o/w Lyndon Rive bought 107,434 shares.

If what NigelM says is true that Lyndon Rive put his 10b5-1 plan in place last August (just a couple months before the capital raise) to sell 120,000 shares of SCTY (just 8 months after the huge "vote of confidence" that Lyndon Rive gave SCTY by buying 107,434 shares), then this whole thing is a slap in the face for SCTY shareholders and Lyndon Rive is a joke and making a complete mockery out of investors and shareholders.

SCTY already diluted the heck out of shareholders by doubling share count over the past 2 years, and now we see that they are dishonest and misleading shareholders by playing these "vote of confidence" games. I am sure that Elon does have confidence in SCTY, and probably will not be selling his shares. But what Lyndon, the CEO, did is completely unethical and the guy is a joke in my book for trying to fool shareholders. The truth always comes out, and I am always happy to do the detective work to point out these jokesters.

Sleepy - I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to get at. Would love a clarification.

Here are all the Lyndon Rive stock transactions I could find from the SEC filings since IPO:

7/3/14 - Lyndon Rive exercises 12982 shares for $1.62 and sells those shares and 30293 more shares for an avg of $71.57. (The sales reported on this Form 4 were effected pursuant to a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan adopted by the reporting person on August 30, 2013)

6/27/14 Lyndon Rive exercises 76725 shares for $1.62 and sells those shares for an avg of $70.75. (The sales reported on this Form 4 were effected pursuant to a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan adopted by the reporting person on August 30, 2013.)

5/6/14 Lyndon Rive exercises 89,580 shares for $1.62 and sells those shares and 30,420 more shares for an avg of $54.15. (The sales reported on this Form 4 were effected pursuant to a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan adopted by the reporting person on August 30, 2013.)

4/19/14 Lyndon Rive sells 160,000 shares for an avg of $52.25. (The sales reported on this Form 4 were effected pursuant to a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan adopted by the reporting person on August 30, 2013.)

10/21/13 Lyndon Rive acquires 107,434 shares for $46.54/share during SCTY secondary offering.

6/11/13 Lyndon Rive sold 220,743 shares at $14/share. (As previously disclosed in the Issuer's Definitive Proxy Statement on Schedule 14A, filed with the SEC on April 30, 2013, and in the Issuer's final prospectus dated December 12, 2012, filed with the SEC pursuant to Rule 424(b), on December 30, 2011, the reporting person granted an option to 137 Ventures, L.P. to purchase 330,520 shares of reporting person's common stock at $14 per share. On June 11, 2013, 137 Ventures, L.P. exercised such option on a cashless basis, resulting in the reporting person transferring 220,743 shares to 137 Ventures, L.P. and withholding 109,777 shares to cover the exercise price.)

Note: From the 12/12/12 sec filing, Lyndon Rive had about 3 million shares (1,000,000 personally and 1,952,378 in a family trust). In addition to these 3 million shares, he has 2 million more shares that he could own via options (presumably milestone/achievement based). 1,000,000 of those shares have a $1.62 strike price (10 year period from 2009-2019), and the other 1,000,000 has a strike price of $5.07 (2011-2021 period).

In context, here's what I'm seeing:
1. Lyndon Rive had 3 million shares at IPO and an additional 2 million shares in options.
2. Lyndon Rive sold 220,000 shares in June 2013, apparently Lyndon Rive sold some options on Dec 2011 to a company and they exercised them.
3. On August 30, 2013, Lyndon Rive submits a 10b5-1 to sell some shares.
4. On October 21, 2013, Lyndon Rive buys a bit more than 100,000 shares in SCTY's secondary offering.
5. From April to July 2014, according to the 10b5-1 plan he sells about 400,000 shares. (There could be more shares he's selling in coming months, I haven't seen the 10b5-1 plan.)

Lyndon Rives still has 2.6 million shares as well as a possible 1.8 million options (until 2021).

It's also likely that SolarCity will give him (and other executives) more incentive plans in coming years as well. So he'll likely end up with more shares than he currently has.

If things are strange with insiders selling, then I'm definitely a person that would point that out. (see Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2013 - Page 376 and Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2013 - Page 377.)

But in this case, it looks like a normal selling of a small portion (ie., 10%) of Lyndon Rives holdings. To sell 300,000 shares (since he bought 100k and sold 400k shares) at let's say $50/share is just $15 million. After taxes, it's probably under $10 million. Probably just enough to buy a nice house in the Bay Area.

 

[mountaineer]

I'm my case that's daily lol

l
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Laziness wins... they get washed once a year, when it rains... :-/

looks like little maintenance work is needed in many parts of CA and FL. This is great!