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e-FTW
New electron smell
Good early test at Starlink by a network engineer: Thoughts from a Network Engineer after having Starlink for five days : Starlink
e-FTW
New electron smell
More and more of these fantastic stories popping up: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/pikangikum-spacex-starlink-1.5824234
e-FTW
New electron smell
One from late October you might have missed: SpaceX Starlink to go south for first time with planned deployment in Texas
https://www.ectorcountyisd.org/cms/...ing SpaceX satellite Internet to students.pdf
https://www.ectorcountyisd.org/cms/...ing SpaceX satellite Internet to students.pdf
The idiocy, it burns! SpaceX (Starlink) and Telesat were invited to give testimony in front of Canadian politicians on rural broadband access. Transcript here (Evidence - INDU (43-2) - No. 4 - House of Commons of Canada).
Some choice quotes:
Geez. The ONLY reason why Quebec isn't part of the beta RIGHT NOW is that Quebec has a LAW that states any service offered in Quebec must have French language documentation. It's a beta service. No doubt they will have French language docs when it isn't a beta anymore.
The political undertones form this hearing were nauseating. Telesat, a Canadian govt leech, has been sucking billions of dollars of subsidies to deliver crappy service, and they have their pet politicians disparaging SpaceX.
Telesat is trying to keep their current $600M subsidy from Canada intact which will deliver a TOTAL of 140 gigabits of capacity. Meanwhile SpaceX lofts about 1,000 gigabit every launch of 60 satellites.
This is just flat out incorrect.
Translation: Come on ... SpaceX is being support by the US govt, so can we please, pretty please have that $600M subsidy, and oh, we also need money to clear out spectrum for 5G.
Earlier, SpaceX replied a question saying that they'll be able to cover all of Canada by 2022. Which stands in stark contrast to Telesat which is promising their 140 gigabits by 2030...
SpaceX replied to the above:
Some choice quotes:
Geez. The ONLY reason why Quebec isn't part of the beta RIGHT NOW is that Quebec has a LAW that states any service offered in Quebec must have French language documentation. It's a beta service. No doubt they will have French language docs when it isn't a beta anymore.
The political undertones form this hearing were nauseating. Telesat, a Canadian govt leech, has been sucking billions of dollars of subsidies to deliver crappy service, and they have their pet politicians disparaging SpaceX.
Telesat is trying to keep their current $600M subsidy from Canada intact which will deliver a TOTAL of 140 gigabits of capacity. Meanwhile SpaceX lofts about 1,000 gigabit every launch of 60 satellites.
This is just flat out incorrect.
Translation: Come on ... SpaceX is being support by the US govt, so can we please, pretty please have that $600M subsidy, and oh, we also need money to clear out spectrum for 5G.
Earlier, SpaceX replied a question saying that they'll be able to cover all of Canada by 2022. Which stands in stark contrast to Telesat which is promising their 140 gigabits by 2030...
SpaceX replied to the above:
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Good to see that the US does not have exclusive rights to political dumbassary.
DMC-Orangeville
Audi eTron & John Deere 5100E
That's a bingo!
All absolutely correct. Your point RE Quebec and language is ALWAYS weaponized by politicians against non-Canadian companies, most of whom are happy to comply....after everything is translated into Quebec-French (not France French).
Just to make sure nobody gets confused by the apples-to-oranges context of this statement, the 140 gigabit figure is what Telesat said they will provide to Canada in order to receive the subsidy. Conversely, the 1 terrabit/launch number for Starlink is explicitly a global figure and really is pretty abstract when one is trying to assign service to any particular land mass.
The 300 satellite Telesat constellation is reported in public domain to provide a global 16-24 terabits. At the 1 terrabit/launch Starlink rate (which FYI is probably just for the ~550km shells--I suspect the 20 gig/sat figure we've heard is for the lower altitude shells, and of course is why they're shying away from the high altitude shells these days) the 300 sat Telesat constellation is comparable to a Starlink constellation of ~1000-1400 satellites.
Of course, Starlink will be much bigger than that: If one believes starlink will go to ~4000 active satellites, it will provide 3-4x the global capacity as Telesat or, assuming linear scaling, ~450-550 gigabits of capacity to Canadia. If one believes starlink will go to 1200 satellites, the constellation would provide +/- ~9-12x the capacity over Telesat, or ~1200-1700 gigabits to Canada. So those are the apples-to-apples numbers to the 140 gigs from Telesat.
That won't be Telesat's biggest hurdle though; there's plenty of markets where small fish prove profitable along side big fish...online retail is a great example. The biggest issue Telesat will have (again, if they ever actually pull the trigger) is the fact that SpaceX will always be much more forward leaning when it comes to concepts and much more agressive when it comes to risk. While a single Telesat satellite is an impressive feat of legacy space technology (~3-4x the mass of a Starlink, 3-4x the capacity at a significantly higher altitude, and 2x+ the lifetime in a significantly harsher environment) its cost to orbit annualized over service life, without crossing any public domain lines for either company, is significantly higher than a starlink sat. That cost all but necessitates a restrained approach to technology, because the thing is so expensive and there are relatively few satellites in the constellation that each one basically has to work. And because each one is up there for twice as long, the constellation has to wait twice as long for a technology refresh. And...and...and...
There are countless islands and other geographically dispersed populations for which physical communication capacity is either unavailable or, if available, is exotically expensive and slow. Starlink has all ovens full fo such places. Even many densely populated areas have poor internet and telephony. Even Northern California has a few areas with nonexistent mobile telephony and difficult, expensive internet services. Once the capacity appears much of the world will find the offerings irritable to established players and irresistible to everyone else. Thus politics will be the primary impediment to growth, but, as in Canada, reality might well overwhelm the establishment.
FWIW, it is transparently obvious that prices will decline as capacity and technology improves, with one principal challenge being dish improvements.
Personally I expect to find the ability to use a single provider for my three-country residential needs to be irresistible. Such solutions will come too, and for those the price can be higher, much higher, even though the cost will be negligible for Starlink. Now imagine all the multinational companies, airlines, shipping companies, air forces, navies et al whose needs can be satisfied more cheaply and/or more satisfactorily from Starlink!
All our blathering, mine included, reminds me of Tesla in 2008. The Roadster was amazing, was it not? Now it's Starlink in its' original Roadster phase.
FWIW, it is transparently obvious that prices will decline as capacity and technology improves, with one principal challenge being dish improvements.
Personally I expect to find the ability to use a single provider for my three-country residential needs to be irresistible. Such solutions will come too, and for those the price can be higher, much higher, even though the cost will be negligible for Starlink. Now imagine all the multinational companies, airlines, shipping companies, air forces, navies et al whose needs can be satisfied more cheaply and/or more satisfactorily from Starlink!
All our blathering, mine included, reminds me of Tesla in 2008. The Roadster was amazing, was it not? Now it's Starlink in its' original Roadster phase.
Satellite internet Starlink and/or Telesat (right @bxr140) will be a godsend, and currently the best foreseeable option, to these communities.
To be clear, I think there's well under a 50/50 chance Telesat will actually come to fruition, primarily because of the timeline. Telesat's been talking about this in the publicly for probably 5 years now (more or less the same as Starlink though IIRC starlink was public first), but they have no public hardware and are years away from being able to offer actual service to customers. The longer they wait, the harder it becomes to secure private funding and the more they need to rely on Mother Canadia to [politely] foot the bill. And as we know from state funded projects the world 'round, those holding the purse strings typically aren't going to let a proper result get in the way of good old fashioned politics.
The reason I chime in on Telesat (and other entities) is that I believe it useful to have unbiased, fact-based conversations about SpaceX and things beyond SpaceX. I recommend you consider a similar mindset.
Xepa777
Member
SpaceX has secured $885.5M in FCC rural broadband subsidies
4th highest amount of all the bidders!
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-368588A1.pdf
1.) LTD Broadband LLC - $1,320,920,718.60 Awarded - 528,088 Sites - 15 States
2.) CCO Holdings, LLC (Charter Communications) - $1,222,613,870.10 Awarded - 1,057,695 Sites - 24 States
3.) Rural Electric Cooperative Consortium - $1,104,395,953.00 Awarded - 618,476 Sites - 22 States
4.) Space Exploration Technologies Corp - $$885,509,638.40 Awarded - 642,925 Sites - 35 States
5.) Windstream Services LLC, Debtor-In-Possession - $522,888,779.80 Awarded - 192,567 Sites - 18 States
4th highest amount of all the bidders!
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-368588A1.pdf
1.) LTD Broadband LLC - $1,320,920,718.60 Awarded - 528,088 Sites - 15 States
2.) CCO Holdings, LLC (Charter Communications) - $1,222,613,870.10 Awarded - 1,057,695 Sites - 24 States
3.) Rural Electric Cooperative Consortium - $1,104,395,953.00 Awarded - 618,476 Sites - 22 States
4.) Space Exploration Technologies Corp - $$885,509,638.40 Awarded - 642,925 Sites - 35 States
5.) Windstream Services LLC, Debtor-In-Possession - $522,888,779.80 Awarded - 192,567 Sites - 18 States
Interesting that Hughes got ~1.3M. Beside that being laughably infinitesimal over 10 years (not to mention, like one hand of poker for Charlie), I thought the RDOF latency requirement full stop ruled out GEO? Or maybe there was a lower tier? I don't remember...
FWIW Charlie is sitting on a gold mine of S-band from the failed Terrestar and ICO projects that he's trying to convert into terrestrial use to become the 4th carrier, but MNO's aren't eligible either so that 1.3M has to be toward HughesNet. Also, no mention of Viasat (not sure if they bothered to apply for funds)
Somewhat related, the C-band auction kicks off tomorrow.
FWIW Charlie is sitting on a gold mine of S-band from the failed Terrestar and ICO projects that he's trying to convert into terrestrial use to become the 4th carrier, but MNO's aren't eligible either so that 1.3M has to be toward HughesNet. Also, no mention of Viasat (not sure if they bothered to apply for funds)
Somewhat related, the C-band auction kicks off tomorrow.
That's really good, I think.
How did Alaska get $0 in support???
Looking at the clickable map (zoom in and click: Federal Communications Commission) which shows who won what area, SpaceX basically won all the "red" areas. Basically, wherever others weren't bidding to put in fiber. IIRC, all these winning bidders simply get handed over $$ to build out their networks, and then they charge their customers whatever fee they bid. So, SpaceX just got $885M free money from the govt to do what they were going to do anyways. Of course, winning RDOF subsidy $$ could very well have been part of the Starlink business plan (and it probably was).
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Link to the map? Could not find it on the FCC website or in the press release.
To answer my own Q, the FCC has a separate fund for Alaska.
Sorry, I meant to link it: Federal Communications Commission
Edit: That map doesn't allow you to zoom too closely. To see the same map, which allows higher zoom, but doesn't have who won, click here: Federal Communications Commission
BTW, in the category of "good enough for government work", you'll notice really weird things like high density urban areas getting subsidy coverage, while other remote areas get none.
Just spent some time over at the Starlink reddit. Most commenters don't realize that this $885M isn't funding anything specific, nor is it subsidizing user access in those regions directly. It makes no difference to you if you are in one of those census regions. You still pay the $499 startup cost and the $99/month subscription fee. I believe the only requirement is that if SpaceX puts a data cap on, it'll be at least 2 TB/month.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Hopefully, this is the right place to post this:
4 Things RVers Need To Know About Starlink Internet
I didn't wanna start a whole new thread that no one would find when looking for StarLink info, but eventually, RV'ing is gonna be a big part of StarLink.
4 Things RVers Need To Know About Starlink Internet
I didn't wanna start a whole new thread that no one would find when looking for StarLink info, but eventually, RV'ing is gonna be a big part of StarLink.
Semantics I suppose, but while starlink might be a part of RVing in the future, RVing isn't going to be a big part of starlink but rather a niche user base.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Not sure if you RV (there are a LOT of us that do), but the biggest issue with it is the CRAP internet, not just from your phone, but from the RV parks you visit. Lots of RV'ers that make their money from the internet will wait to get on the net until they are near a Starbucks or whatever and then do all their uploading to YouTube and whatnot.
To have internet that is full speed wherever you park is going to be a gamechanger and RV'ers have the $$$ to afford it. It may even be a thing where people park their RV in the yard and use it for their HOME internet to save on paying for the net twice.
To have internet that is full speed wherever you park is going to be a gamechanger and RV'ers have the $$$ to afford it. It may even be a thing where people park their RV in the yard and use it for their HOME internet to save on paying for the net twice.
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