Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I only know where it is because of a Teslarati article. It’s in the dumbest spot imaginable — above your head.

It's not a good place for daily use, but given it's only there as a backup, that spot is actually a better spot from a cost standpoint, since you need a hazard button anyways and that panel is a good place to put extra buttons. This allows them to keep the center console design mostly the same as the previous gen, and not have to put a row of buttons like in the Model S/X.

 

[stroked250]

If you've ever tried to change volume or skip music track with the steering wheel up-side-down - well, you don't, do you, you give up trying and wait till the wheel is back to centre - then you already know how much indicators on the wheel suck!

Nope, not at all. We’ve had several cars with controls on the wheel. It’s about as basic as can be to controls them no matter where the position of the wheel is. After a few drives it’s second nature just like forcing your hands to stay at 10/2 for stalks. My wife had no issue turning the radio volume down when making a turn. Pretty basic stuff here.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

If you've ever tried to change volume or skip music track with the steering wheel up-side-down - well, you don't, do you, you give up trying and wait till the wheel is back to centre - then you already know how much indicators on the wheel suck!

Although it’s not an everyday occurrence for me to need to skip a track while the wheel is cranked 90 degrees or upside down, I’ve adapted to it and have a 100% success rate.

I just take a quick glance at how the Tesla logo on the steering wheel is oriented and that’s all I need.

 

[smogne41]

If the current percentages are anything to go by, Tesla's gonna cop a big income hit

Too bad they will never be able to figure out why!

 

[WyoDude]

I predict Q3 earnings to be worse than Q2

Saving this for later

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I just take a quick glance at how the Tesla logo on the steering wheel is oriented and that’s all I need.

You're gonna need a new strategy.

 

[WyoDude]

this is what we called The RC Factor - Resistance To Change.

1000%

 

[smogne41]

1000%

Nothing wrong with resistance to stupid change.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

You're gonna need a new strategy.

View attachment 970830

All I need is one fixed point that stands out. The silver trim below the steering wheel or the silver trim above works.

It’s not that hard

I honestly think people are overthinking this whole thing, but I guess we’ll see once it actual customers start using it day in and day out.

 

[whitex]

You're gonna need a new strategy.

View attachment 970830

I can see "TESLA" indent in the middle, @Macb00kemdanno will just have to look a little harder.

 

[whitex]

I honestly think people are overthinking this whole thing, but I guess we’ll see once it actual customers start using it day in and day out.

Model S/X sales tanked after the initial fanboy "I need the latest" surge. If Model 3 Highland follows, perhaps that would prove to Elon he was wrong. Then again, it's Elon, so he will likely never admit he was wrong, so will probably blame it on something else.

PS> Anyone have any stats on which yoke (rounded or not) is getting ordered most on Model S/X today? I did notice recently that the standard selection switched to the rounded version in the design studio online.

 

[whitex]

Although it’s not an everyday occurrence for me to need to skip a track while the wheel is cranked 90 degrees or upside down, I’ve adapted to it and have a 100% success rate.

I bet you and some others could adjust to dual joystick tank-like control system too, and it would actually offer you more steering capabilities than a yoke or a wheel, but that's not the point. Most people want consistent controls between the cars their drive, be it own, family, friends, or rentals.

 

[KJD]

Does the stalkless design make the car easier to use ? NO
Does the stalkless design make the car safer ? NO
Does the car increase Tesla's profit margin ? YES

 

[zoomer0056]

fanboy

That and fanboi has resurfaced with the Highland stalkless design. It was used rampantly during the yolk wars to disparage the enemy.

 

[MitchMitch]

Resistance to Change indeed.
~50 years of driving. 1,000,000 miles give or take.
I picked up a new Model X in January of this year that now has all of 6,000 miles

Had to drive my 2015 GMC PU on the highway the other day.
I managed to cancel the cruise control when I went to signal a lane change . . . oops!

Initially skeptical, I love the yoke, love the yoke-mounted controls, love the power, love the voice control, getting used to FSD.

P.S. ITS FREAKIN' ELECTRIC!!

 

[smogne41]

Model S/X sales tanked after the initial fanboy "I need the latest" surge. If Model 3 Highland follows, perhaps that would prove to Elon he was wrong. Then again, it's Elon, so he will likely never admit he was wrong, so will probably blame it on something else.

Clearly it will be the (non)-customers who are wrong...

 

[smogne41]

Too bad we lost the poll though when the threads were merged. I was curious to see where it ended up. Last I saw it was about 50/50 a few hours ago.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

That and fanboi has resurfaced with the Highland stalkless design. It was used rampantly during the yolk wars to disparage the enemy.

The people who fought that war must have a lot of egg on their faces now.

 

[drtimhill]

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

Not sure about some of this logic…

First, apparently the M3 highland wheel has haptic feedback, which should address issues of ergonomics and false button presses (if the haotic is as goos as, say, my laptop trackpad).

Second, you pretty much only change gears when stationary, so issues of looking at screen seem moot to me. And i tend to glance at screen anyway. Also the current mix of half-way, full/way and double ups and downs in the stalk are hardly intuitive.

 

[one2many]

If we think about the shifting stalk, in the old days,
we had buttons, there were 3 speed stalks (what a piece of work)
and I think the center console is the most common now.
I still reach for the center console from time to time,
its not a big deal.

The turn signal buttons on the wheel will not be
a big thing in Germany cause most people do not
use them or use them incorrectly. It may be an advantage
traveling at high speeds (100mph).

If you look at a F1 race car, its all on the wheel.
I guess in a few hours of driving, it will all work out.
Deal buster, hardly.
Never mind.