Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[SalisburySam]

…Tesla's old stalk is flakey af and the signals hardly ever work anyway.

Seriously? Never had a stalk problem, nor have I experienced signals not working. Ever. In any of my over four dozen vehicles and decades of different brands. In fairness I’ve replaced two flashers in a classic car but that’s it. Either I’ve been very lucky, or you haven’t.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Yes, seriously. The 3/Y turn signal stalk only works if you press it slowly enough, regardless of how far it is pressed. Some people find it almost impossible to tap it briefly enough to make it fail, while others find it almost impossible to retrain their muscle memory and tap it slowly enough to work every time.

 

[ks1972]

Yes, seriously. The 3/Y turn signal stalk only works if you press it slowly enough, regardless of how far it is pressed. Some people find it almost impossible to tap it briefly enough to make it fail, while others find it almost impossible to retrain their muscle memory and tap it slowly enough to work every time.

I’ve had 3 different model 3 cars in last 5 years, never experienced this. Neither have I experienced this on my S that I’ve had for 4 years.

 

[mborkow]

Yes, seriously. The 3/Y turn signal stalk only works if you press it slowly enough, regardless of how far it is pressed. Some people find it almost impossible to tap it briefly enough to make it fail, while others find it almost impossible to retrain their muscle memory and tap it slowly enough to work every time.

That’s not what I’ve experienced at all. The stalks on all the 3s and Ys I’ve driven (6 - 7 vehicles) clearly had two positions that could easily be tactilely discerned.

 

[drtimhill]

Yes, seriously. The 3/Y turn signal stalk only works if you press it slowly enough, regardless of how far it is pressed. Some people find it almost impossible to tap it briefly enough to make it fail, while others find it almost impossible to retrain their muscle memory and tap it slowly enough to work every time.

Wow what kind of reflexes do you have? Superman's? I'm sure there is a "debounce" filter built into the car to deliberately ignore very momentary presses (all switches have that), but I'd be surprised if a normal stalk press could trigger that (btw, the stalks dont have actual switches, they have Hall effect sensors which are contactless).

 

[arkhos]

Have not yet had a single issue with my 23 M3RWD stalks - but have only had the car for about 8 months.

That said - I can take or leave stalks. While possibly a dealbreaker for some, it's certainly not a dealbreaker for me. Like most things, it will just take a bit of getting used to.

 

[mborkow]

I test drove a Highland and I prefer the stalks I have now but would adapt to losing them…

 

[whitex]

Yes, seriously. The 3/Y turn signal stalk only works if you press it slowly enough, regardless of how far it is pressed. Some people find it almost impossible to tap it briefly enough to make it fail, while others find it almost impossible to retrain their muscle memory and tap it slowly enough to work every time.

That's probably it's already "cost optimized, half way to no stalk" Tesla solution. Normal stalks just stay in the left/right signaling position, then move back when automatically turned off. Some also allow you half way position which signals while you hold it there (or 1-3 times even if you just 'blip it"). See 2018 or earlier Model S.

 

[mborkow]

That's probably it's already "cost optimized, half way to no stalk" Tesla solution. Normal stalks just stay in the left/right signaling position, then move back when automatically turned off. Some also allow you half way position which signals while you hold it there (or 1-3 times even if you just 'blip it"). See 2018 or earlier Model S.

That’s exactly how the current stalks work as well. Although I have them set to auto cancel and that works excellently (they still on until the car detects you have changed lanes…really nice feature)

 

[dusty22]

The 3/Y turn signal stalk only works if you press it slowly enough, regardless of how far it is pressed.

I've always gently pressed the stalks on all the cars I have driven; just the natural way I do it and never gave it any thought. I must say that the soft press and rebound of the M3 stalk is very nice and has a quality feel to it.

 

[Videomatic3]

I've always gently pressed the stalks on all the cars I have driven; just the natural way I do it and never gave it any thought. I must say that the soft press and rebound of the M3 stalk is very nice and has a quality feel to it.

this is one of the things i feel like ill never get used to in my model 3 and one of the things i really hate about newer cars. i much prefer the model s where it clicks on and clicks off, and holds its position.

 

[whitex]

That’s exactly how the current stalks work as well. Although I have them set to auto cancel and that works excellently (they still on until the car detects you have changed lanes…really nice feature)

I tried the auto-cancel when I rented a M3 a few times last year. It doesn't work every time. The problem is I never know if it's just late or is not going to work, so on more than one occasion I went to manually cancel it only to re-enable it because auto-cancel cancelled it while I was moving the stalk.

So can one learn to live with it, probably. Is it better than a proper stalk, no.

 

[BitJam]

That’s exactly how the current stalks work as well. Although I have them set to auto cancel and that works excellently (they still on until the car detects you have changed lanes…really nice feature)

I find the auto-cancel mostly annoying and in the way although there are a few cases where it's helpful.

My problem is that for most of the turns I take around town I must first get into a separate turn lane. I signal I'm going to move into the turn lane and then auto cancel does its job and cancels the turn signal when get into the lane so I have to turn the blinker on again to signal the upcoming turn. For me it's much easier to keep auto-cancel disabled and let the blinker turn off automatically due to the rotation of the steering wheel after I've made the turn. Having it auto-cancel before I make the turn seems stupid. When other drivers see I've canceled my turn signal they might think I changed my mind and think I no longer plan to turn.

I am surprised anyone finds auto cancel useful. I'm curious to find out why people like it. For me it mostly creates extra work and requires extra thinking while making the car less safe.

 

[mborkow]

I tried the auto-cancel when I rented a M3 a few times last year. It doesn't work every time. The problem is I never know if it's just late or is not going to work, so on more than one occasion I went to manually cancel it only to re-enable it because auto-cancel cancelled it while I was moving the stalk.

So can one learn to live with it, probably. Is it better than a proper stalk, no.

If you don’t like auto cancel you can disable it from settings. The the stalks operate as “proper” stalks

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I agree that auto-cancel has a number of problems, all of which could be solved by simply programming it to revert to standard latching behavior upon a full press past the decent.

Normally I’d be hopeful that this summer’s intern would write that one simple line of code, but I’m pretty sure Elon would veto any improvements to the “obsolete” system, especially if it adds valuable functionality that can’t be implemented on a stalkless car.

 

[whitex]

If you don’t like auto cancel you can disable it from settings.

Yep, I eventually just did that.

The the stalks operate as “proper” stalks

Not quite. They are still momentary switches. Check out how the 2018 or earlier Model S stalks worked - they stay in the directional position when pushed all the way, only blink 3 times (IIRC) if they return instantly when pushed half way.

 

[mborkow]

Not quite. They are still momentary switches. Check out how the 2018 or earlier Model S stalks worked - they stay in the directional position when pushed all the way, only blink 3 times (IIRC) if they return instantly when pushed half way.

That’s how my stalks work as well. I can push them part way down for 3 blinks or depress them full and they remain there until I change it.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Not quite. They are still momentary switches. Check out how the 2018 or earlier Model S stalks worked - they stay in the directional position when pushed all the way, only blink 3 times (IIRC) if they return instantly when pushed half way.

I.e. the old style where the turn signal stalk stayed in the down / up position while it was set for the left / right signal, and mechanically popped back to the middle position when it self-canceled.

Some newer cars (not just Teslas) started having turn signal stalks that immediately popped back to the middle position, though they did not self cancel until completion of the turn if they were initially pushed all the way down or up (versus the push lightly for three blinks mode).

 

[whitex]

That’s how my stalks work as well. I can push them part way down for 3 blinks or depress them full and they remain there until I change it.

Interesting, all 3/Y's I've ever driven, the stalk never stays all the way in left signal or right signal position - always returns to the center position, even if the blinker is on permanently.

 

[whitex]

I.e. the old style where the turn signal stalk stayed in the down / up position while it was set for the left / right signal, and mechanically popped back to the middle position when it self-canceled.

Some newer cars (not just Teslas) started having turn signal stalks that immediately popped back to the middle position, though they did not self cancel until completion of the turn if they were initially pushed all the way down or up (versus the push lightly for three blinks mode).

I know, I don't remember which car I drove which had this. Still worse than traditional stalks IMO.