Strange (maybe normal) battery experience

[AndyIQ]

Hi All,
I have a 2018 model X P100D on factory 22” rims running OEM Perelli tires. The car has about 50k miles on it.

Here is the question. Is my model X normal or do I have a problem?

Information. We don’t get near the “rated mileage”. Our rated mileages at 80% charge is 216 miles. I have a 49mile commute 1x a week on a lightly traveled almost flat freeway. With the consumption screen up, I can keep the 30 mile average watt hour below the rated line (340ish). I need to set auto pilot at 65 to get this efficiency. my range left, as stated on dash is 116 miles (43%). I do this weekly all year (live in southern Ca, so weather is mild. I ve tried with a hot battery, cold battery, no hvac on, etc. and it does vary but only a few percentage points. How can it take 37% of my battery to go 49 miles if 1. I have a 100kw battery and 2. Consumption reporting is 340 wh/mile. I have repeated this test over a dozen times with nearly identical results. The reason I started doing it, is because we only get around 130 miles on a full charge and I wanted to remove as many influencing factors as possible. Tesla has never tested the battery to my knowledge, but when I have inquired they blame weather, driving habits, road conditions and tires.

Thanks for you help

 

[islandbayy]

Your consumption is normal for a Model X.
My Model S, I can nail or exceed rated range. Our Model X, I'm lucky to get 75% of rated range (in any condition, including summer with AC off and windows closed). The Model X is an inefficient power Hungary beast.

 

[DCGOO]

Hi All,
I have a 2018 model X P100D on factory 22” rims running OEM Perelli tires. The car has about 50k miles on it.

Here is the question. Is my model X normal or do I have a problem?

Information. We don’t get near the “rated mileage”. Our rated mileages at 80% charge is 216 miles. I have a 49mile commute 1x a week on a lightly traveled almost flat freeway. With the consumption screen up, I can keep the 30 mile average watt hour below the rated line (340ish). I need to set auto pilot at 65 to get this efficiency. my range left, as stated on dash is 116 miles (43%). I do this weekly all year (live in southern Ca, so weather is mild. I ve tried with a hot battery, cold battery, no hvac on, etc. and it does vary but only a few percentage points. How can it take 37% of my battery to go 49 miles if 1. I have a 100kw battery and 2. Consumption reporting is 340 wh/mile. I have repeated this test over a dozen times with nearly identical results. The reason I started doing it, is because we only get around 130 miles on a full charge and I wanted to remove as many influencing factors as possible. Tesla has never tested the battery to my knowledge, but when I have inquired they blame weather, driving habits, road conditions and tires.

Thanks for you help

The 22 inch wheels kill your range.

 

[KL670]

I’m a novice 23 MXLR owner and I feel OP’s frustration. Essentially he’s getting 132 miles out of his 100% charge. That sounds way off.

 

[DCGOO]

I’m a novice 23 MXLR owner and I feel OP’s frustration. Essentially he’s getting 132 miles out of his 100% charge. That sounds way off.

Tesla "blame weather, driving habits, road conditions and tires." I would add poor wheel alignment to their list. The 2022+ Model Xs are far better than the 2018 (I had one). They are lighter, more powerful (670 HP), charge way faster, and go further than any other earlier Model X. But they are not necessarily aligned, coming out of the factory. A quality wheel alignment can make a significant difference. I can always exceed rated miles on mine, although I admit, I don't really pay attention to rated miles. Percent SoC always made more sense to worry about.

Right now I am in the middle of a Holiday trip, roughly 700 miles. I drove 250 miles on the first leg, arrived at a supercharger with 4% left in the tank. Should have been better, but we had a fairly significant headwind and I was constantly getting the "stay below 75mph to reach your destination" warning. Even with that, it took only 30 minutes to continue another 200 miles, where I only needed a 10 minute charge, followed by a 15 minute. I actually could have made the trip with only two charging stops, With my 2018 the same trip always took four charging stops, sometimes five, depending on the weather. Some of those were really long, like over an hour.

Leisurely meal stops are a thing of the past with a 2022+ Model X.

 

[John in LB]

I have a 2017 LR 100D with 20" wheels. I have 75,000 miles and my 80% is 220 miles (100% is 273 miles). So, your 80% at 216 is quite reasonable.

In SoCal, on a full charge (100% down to about 10%), I get about 200 miles - specifically, I can go from Laguna Beach to Buttonwillow supercharger, but will not try to make it to Kettleman city superchargers... I would expect you would get less because of the wheels.

Also, I did get an alignment done when I replaced my tires at 68,000 miles and it made the ride smoother as well as a little bit more efficient (anecdotal data, no hard evidence.)

 

[AndyIQ]

Thank you all for the feedback, I’ve done several additional driving “tests” and what I keep noticing is the wh/mile math does not align with the battery percentage used. For example and to keep it simple. It took 31% of the battery to drive 50 miles (we have a 100kw battery) My math says that’s about 620 wh/m. Or 1.6miles per kw. The consumption screen in the car list the 30 mile average as 370 wh/m. All 50 miles traveled are similar freeway/flat/autopilot at 65 mph. I know there is discrepancy in total pack capacity etc, But it’s so far off that I can’t make it make sense. At 370 wh/m that should have used 18% not 31%. This is why I’m struggling to understand if I have an issue or not. Less than 1 hour of driving with yes ac was on but it was 68 degrees out site so very low.

 

[JNelson1326]

Greetings all. This is likely one of my first posts on TMC.
I have a 2016 MX, Dual Motor, P90, with over 157K Miles, and will have had this EV 8 years in June. I am probably past the warranty period based on having over 100K Miles.
Over the past 1-2 years I have noticed remarkable degradation in the Battery Range. At first, not “horrible”, but over the past year, definitely getting my attention. Did a “sample” comparing Odometer Mileage and “Estimated Range” Mileage for my driving over the last 10 days. It seems that I am only getting about 67% of what I would expect from the charge, with the “variation” (depending on the drive, conditions, temp., etc.) between 72% and 54% of what I would have expected. Over the last 10 days, I had 230 Miles of driving - based on the Odometer readings, but used approximately 334 miles of “estimated range” miles.

My question is this: Is this typical for the Model X that is approaching 8 years of service life (build probably completed in April-May 2016, delivered in June 2016), with close to 160K of Miles? If so, then will be considering trading in probably later this year. Is it worth considering doing a Battery Pack Swap (aftermarket) which can run in the $20K+ range, for this vehicle that *MIGHT* get $ 26K for sale or trade, or should I just plan to “run it into the ground”, and anticipate getting some paltry value for trade? When I have had it “checked” previously at the TSC’s in my area, all I get is “Oh, yea, looks like your battery’s cells are still at 90-95% of their capacity”. Basically a “No, we really don’t want to deal with this” type of response.

Let me know what your suggestions might be. If I can do a “Battery Swap” for around $10K-12K, and that would give this vehicle another couple of years of good service for me, then I would consider that. I have been “on top” of all major service concerns, and have new tires as of 2023 (all 4). Thanks.

 

[DCGOO]

Greetings all. This is likely one of my first posts on TMC.
I have a 2016 MX, Dual Motor, P90, with over 157K Miles, and will have had this EV 8 years in June. I am probably past the warranty period based on having over 100K Miles.
Over the past 1-2 years I have noticed remarkable degradation in the Battery Range. At first, not “horrible”, but over the past year, definitely getting my attention. Did a “sample” comparing Odometer Mileage and “Estimated Range” Mileage for my driving over the last 10 days. It seems that I am only getting about 67% of what I would expect from the charge, with the “variation” (depending on the drive, conditions, temp., etc.) between 72% and 54% of what I would have expected. Over the last 10 days, I had 230 Miles of driving - based on the Odometer readings, but used approximately 334 miles of “estimated range” miles.

My question is this: Is this typical for the Model X that is approaching 8 years of service life (build probably completed in April-May 2016, delivered in June 2016), with close to 160K of Miles? If so, then will be considering trading in probably later this year. Is it worth considering doing a Battery Pack Swap (aftermarket) which can run in the $20K+ range, for this vehicle that *MIGHT* get $ 26K for sale or trade, or should I just plan to “run it into the ground”, and anticipate getting some paltry value for trade? When I have had it “checked” previously at the TSC’s in my area, all I get is “Oh, yea, looks like your battery’s cells are still at 90-95% of their capacity”. Basically a “No, we really don’t want to deal with this” type of response.

Let me know what your suggestions might be. If I can do a “Battery Swap” for around $10K-12K, and that would give this vehicle another couple of years of good service for me, then I would consider that. I have been “on top” of all major service concerns, and have new tires as of 2023 (all 4). Thanks.

Actually, 230 miles is not all that bad for a brand new vehicle. For a 2016 P90, it is really outstanding! I would not be changing anything, especially the battery. Quite likely the replacement will be worse. Tesla was right, 90-95% if not higher. You've got a keeper!

 

[snorp]

My 2016 with 84k miles gets roughly 2 miles per battery percentage at 75 mph on relatively flat interstate. I can consistently get 200 miles on a single charge between my house and a supercharger that is exactly 200 miles away.

Using estimated range is not a great way of comparing anything. Consider your speed, wheels, weather, and if city or highway driving. 230 miles on a single charge is fantastic given these were rated for 250 miles when new.

 

[islandbayy]

Greetings all. This is likely one of my first posts on TMC.
I have a 2016 MX, Dual Motor, P90, with over 157K Miles, and will have had this EV 8 years in June. I am probably past the warranty period based on having over 100K Miles.
Over the past 1-2 years I have noticed remarkable degradation in the Battery Range. At first, not “horrible”, but over the past year, definitely getting my attention. Did a “sample” comparing Odometer Mileage and “Estimated Range” Mileage for my driving over the last 10 days. It seems that I am only getting about 67% of what I would expect from the charge, with the “variation” (depending on the drive, conditions, temp., etc.) between 72% and 54% of what I would have expected. Over the last 10 days, I had 230 Miles of driving - based on the Odometer readings, but used approximately 334 miles of “estimated range” miles.

My question is this: Is this typical for the Model X that is approaching 8 years of service life (build probably completed in April-May 2016, delivered in June 2016), with close to 160K of Miles? If so, then will be considering trading in probably later this year. Is it worth considering doing a Battery Pack Swap (aftermarket) which can run in the $20K+ range, for this vehicle that *MIGHT* get $ 26K for sale or trade, or should I just plan to “run it into the ground”, and anticipate getting some paltry value for trade? When I have had it “checked” previously at the TSC’s in my area, all I get is “Oh, yea, looks like your battery’s cells are still at 90-95% of their capacity”. Basically a “No, we really don’t want to deal with this” type of response.

Let me know what your suggestions might be. If I can do a “Battery Swap” for around $10K-12K, and that would give this vehicle another couple of years of good service for me, then I would consider that. I have been “on top” of all major service concerns, and have new tires as of 2023 (all 4). Thanks.

As others have said, not that bad given the mileage and age. My 90D MS and 75D MX are wearing around the same, but my MX75D's supercharging speeds are extremely poor now. About a month before your warranty is up, as you should have 8 years unlimited Mileage on your vehicle, book a service appointment and have the battery test done, as well as have the drive units fluid changed and inspected for particles & coolant. I have my MS scheduled for that in about 3 weeks as it's warranty is up end of Feb, and my MX warranty is up middle of December 2024.

I'd also recommend getting BMS access via TM-SPY and Scan My Tesla. I'm attaching a video below about where to connect the hardware. Video description box has links to what hardware is required, where to get, and where/how to get the apps necessary. That will give you much more in depth detail on how your battery is ageing.

 

[mxnym]

Greetings all. This is likely one of my first posts on TMC.
I have a 2016 MX, Dual Motor, P90, with over 157K Miles, and will have had this EV 8 years in June. I am probably past the warranty period based on having over 100K Miles.
Over the past 1-2 years I have noticed remarkable degradation in the Battery Range. At first, not “horrible”, but over the past year, definitely getting my attention. Did a “sample” comparing Odometer Mileage and “Estimated Range” Mileage for my driving over the last 10 days. It seems that I am only getting about 67% of what I would expect from the charge, with the “variation” (depending on the drive, conditions, temp., etc.) between 72% and 54% of what I would have expected. Over the last 10 days, I had 230 Miles of driving - based on the Odometer readings, but used approximately 334 miles of “estimated range” miles.

My question is this: Is this typical for the Model X that is approaching 8 years of service life (build probably completed in April-May 2016, delivered in June 2016), with close to 160K of Miles? If so, then will be considering trading in probably later this year. Is it worth considering doing a Battery Pack Swap (aftermarket) which can run in the $20K+ range, for this vehicle that *MIGHT* get $ 26K for sale or trade, or should I just plan to “run it into the ground”, and anticipate getting some paltry value for trade? When I have had it “checked” previously at the TSC’s in my area, all I get is “Oh, yea, looks like your battery’s cells are still at 90-95% of their capacity”. Basically a “No, we really don’t want to deal with this” type of response.

Let me know what your suggestions might be. If I can do a “Battery Swap” for around $10K-12K, and that would give this vehicle another couple of years of good service for me, then I would consider that. I have been “on top” of all major service concerns, and have new tires as of 2023 (all 4). Thanks.

Unlike the three responses above, I can't seem to find anywhere in your comment where you said something like 'I didn't charge for 10 days' or 'I drove 230 miles in one charge' so my translation of '334 miles of "estimated range" miles' is that you used over 100% of your battery to do those 230 miles. I can guess that you used 133.6% to go 230 miles based on the comment about '250 miles when new', and that would be something like 120 kWH, which would mean you averaged something like 522 WH/mi if the batter had a 90 kWH capacity. If you kept track of the WH/mi that entire time, that number might help you tell how far off your batter might be, but still based on a ton of assumptions. The advice to use % instead of estimated range is good. You may also need to run it down to 10%, leave it there for a bit, charge it up to 90%, leave it there for a bit, etc (not sure on exact steps, you should search) to get your cells rebalanced and then do a new test yourself, to figure out what n% of your battery is in kWH. Once done, you can extrapolate that to 100% and compare that to what you expect. Unfortunately, since you weren't doing that 7-8 years ago, what it will tell you is still somewhat limited, but some searching could give you ideas of what people who were doing that 8 years ago were witnessing in terms of P90 kWH capacity.

 

[Kibana Dai]

Thank you all for the feedback, I’ve done several additional driving “tests” and what I keep noticing is the wh/mile math does not align with the battery percentage used. For example and to keep it simple. It took 31% of the battery to drive 50 miles (we have a 100kw battery) My math says that’s about 620 wh/m. Or 1.6miles per kw. The consumption screen in the car list the 30 mile average as 370 wh/m. All 50 miles traveled are similar freeway/flat/autopilot at 65 mph. I know there is discrepancy in total pack capacity etc, But it’s so far off that I can’t make it make sense. At 370 wh/m that should have used 18% not 31%. This is why I’m struggling to understand if I have an issue or not. Less than 1 hour of driving with yes ac was on but it was 68 degrees out site so very low.

AndylQ, I got attracted to your post from pure math perspective. Could you post a graph of energy consumption? Also, the screen shot of your trip. I will compare total energy consumption from the energy app (by summing it up for each peak and valley) with the total trip energy consumption to understand what your car is doing. Just screenshot from energy app is okay. The issue might be that you are taking average consumption and doing match. In reality, total consumption over the trip is integration/summation of all peaks and valleys of consumption over respective miles. And this number might be higher. You did mention that all 50 miles were traveled on freeway/flat/autopilot but I am thinking how flat line the energy consumption is.