Supercharging rates go WAY up!

[Atari2600]

I cannot believe anyone would buy a Tesla without having charging where they live as not going to a pump or external source for charging is a huge benefit.
I also assume Tesla has obtained all the cheap supercharger locations and the new ones will cost more as the exclusivity dimishes. Building and maintaining locations cannot be cheap and the power source is not free.
Perhaps the price will come back down after the Supercharger buildup.

 

[Az_Rael]

Yeah but what about the savings in oil changes, brakes, mufflers, all the stuff that goes with ICE cars?

Well, compared against a BMW that poster was using, they would be equal for a few years, as BMW includes all maintenance for 3 years/36,000 miles during which you would have at least 1 maintenance visit with aTesla if you follow manufacturer schedules.

And Tesla’s maintenance prices aren’t exactly cheap either, even if you only do the “majors” with fluid flushes at 25k and 50k.

Tesla didn’t really win the “low maintenance” EV argument. That probably goes to Chevy and Nissan who actually make low maintenance EVs. Other than air filters and tires, the Bolt doesn’t need any fluid changes until 150k miles. That’s what EV maintenance should look like.

 

[Knightshade]

Well, compared against a BMW that poster was using, they would be equal for a few years, as BMW includes all maintenance for 3 years/36,000 miles during which you would have at least 1 maintenance visit with aTesla if you follow manufacturer schedules.

And Tesla’s maintenance prices aren’t exactly cheap either, even if you only do the “majors” with fluid flushes at 25k and 50k.

Tesla didn’t really win the “low maintenance” EV argument. That probably goes to Chevy and Nissan who actually make low maintenance EVs. Other than air filters and tires, the Bolt doesn’t need any fluid changes until 150k miles. That’s what EV maintenance should look like.

... are you claiming GM has magic brake fluid that is good for 10 years/150k miles between changes? Because everyone else on earth says it needs to be changed every 2-4 years- including Tesla.

(and other than that the actual required maintenance items between the model 3 and Volt are identical- the volt just goes longer between those coolant changes)

 

[ricohman]

Good morning,

I always want everyone else to see what I see, what's happening in our world. I get that's not realistic.

I ignored the legitimate concerns of those who bought the car for their reasons different than mine, and that the increase in SC costs was a bummer for them. Not cool. Gore Vidal would be pissed at me.

I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. Through good luck, hard work, good luck and hard work, I've managed to get my family to a place that seems like a trip. Some days I have to remind myself to reconnect with the struggle. Blogging about the struggle isn't connecting to the struggle.

We have solar, most months we generate more energy than we use. In those months the amount of charging I do at home now will amount to an electricity bill of a couple bucks. So overall, charging at home costs us...not much. Some months the cost is $0.

Hopefully this will prompt more development in solar. I know since we bought panels in 2006, costs have come way down.

Peace and love,

View attachment 370305

Howdy,

Yeah but what about the savings in oil changes, brakes, mufflers, all the stuff that goes with ICE cars? Is that all out the window now, just because brother Elon raised the rates? The theme of this thread seems like it is.

Peace and love,

Now this...

A person may not buy a Patagonia jacket because of what Patagonia stands for. But when you buy a Patagonia piece, you're helping the planet whether you agree with Yvon or not.

Same thing with Tesla. Their mission statement is:
"to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy".

I blogged about a conservative Trump supporter I had a nice conversation with at the SC. Climate change wasn't his reason for buying. But it's Elon's reason for being in business.

The rates have gone up, I get that it's a bummer for some. But. When you bought the car you bought into Elon's mission statement. Their mission hasn't changed.

You can ignore his mission. that's your right. Some are saying, "Hey wait a minute. I bought the car to save money on gas. You raised the rates, now I'm not saving money on gas and I'm bummed".

I see that as, "standin' on the tracks in the pourin' rain, when you get run over well you blame the train".

Peace and love,

Solar only works half the time up north so it's not suitable for everyone.
No idea what a pantagonia is.
ICE repairs? My old beater has 340,000 km on its original exhaust system. Again combustion vehicles can be very reliable for a very long time. And a Japanese compact is 1/4 the price of a model 3 in Canada. Add our expensive electricity to that and you will never recoup any cost savings driving an EV where I live. It is impossible.
Tesla's mission? I don't know or care. I want a 3 for the performance and tech. That's it.
Right now Tesla builds cars for the wealthy.

 

[CarterStC]

Clearly you don't live in the Bay Area where many have no garage and PGE rates are insane for home charging. Your off peak rate is a pipe dream here, My off peak is $.27 and in the summer peak is $.45 or more. This is before our next BK rate hike.

I live here, but I switched to the EV TOU plan, so it is 13 cents kW... You are a sucker it you pay full bill!
Now I have solar, so that knocks about $50 additional $ of my monthly costs. On TOU, I was paying about $30/mo less WITH the Tesla charging than I was on the tiered plan last year, so I'm saving an additional $250/mo in gasoline charges! Plus my maintenance cost had dropped significantly.

 

[Eno Deb]

The rates have gone up, I get that it's a bummer for some. But. When you bought the car you bought into Elon's mission statement. Their mission hasn't changed.

I think this move will make it more difficult to achieve. A big (maybe the biggest) part of the mission is to convince the general public that EVs are a viable and economic alternative to ICE vehicles. If not only the upfront purchase price, but also the "fuel" are more expensive for EVs, it will just reinforce the impression that EVs are just toys for wealthy people. People here tend to assume that the success of EVs is a given, but the reality is that they have a low single-digit market share and there is still a huge hill to climb to make them mainstream outside of some hot spots like California.

That said, it is obvious that Tesla is under pressure financially, so I understand why they are doing it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[seattlite2004]

... are you claiming GM has magic brake fluid that is good for 10 years/150k miles between changes? Because everyone else on earth says it needs to be changed every 2-4 years- including Tesla.

(and other than that the actual required maintenance items between the model 3 and Volt are identical- the volt just goes longer between those coolant changes)

Chevy says replace brake fluid every 5 years:

 

[Knightshade]

So pretty much same as Tesla just longer intervals (plus whatever the heck "underbody flushing service" is for the Volt that you'll need to apparently do twice a year)

 

[seattlite2004]

So pretty much same as Tesla just longer intervals (plus whatever the heck "underbody flushing service" is for the Volt that you'll need to apparently do twice a year)

Its washing your car....cuz of the currosive anti ice stuff.

Longer intervals....sure...or one could say at least 50% less maintenance for brakes and coolant.

 

[Zorg]

You clearly don’t live in California. Electricity rates are absured here. With the jacked up price in supercharging it equals to a 30mpg car. It’s no longer useful as a road trip car. Too expensive and inconvenient.

Guess this is my first and last Tesla. Everything they have done since I got the car I dislike.

Tesla are not a rational financial decision. So basing your purchase solely off of supercharger rates seems rather silly.

 

[Merrill]

Ok, I love this forum and learn lots but for me it is all about perspective. At my age I have experienced flying around in helicopters in Vietnam and more recently 2 years of California fires, so stuff like raising the supercharging fees is not insignificant in the total scheme of things. I feel very lucky to be able to own Tesla’s and will continue to enjoy them as long as they exist.
“How to get rich quick, count your blessings”

 

[suwaneedad]

Since most Model 3s don't have free supercharging I'm posting it here. Local rate in Vancouver WA started at $0.11/kwh, early in 2018 then went to $0.24 and today, a year later, went to $0.31!! My home power is $0.0816. Even with demand charges, power factor charges etc I am sure their industrial rate is less than I am paying.here. Are we getting close to $3 gasoline equivalent? I have solar panels and charge at home like most, but road trip cost has gone up significantly. And renters and condo owners costs have gone way up too.

Doesn't look like local power rates affect the price, making a LOT more profit in the Northwest than in high power cost areas like California. Shouldn't it be a % markup based on local power rates, not a near flat fee? And when is the next 30+% rate hike?

Tesla drastically increases Supercharger prices around the world

I suspect that starting rate of 11 cents was a mistake of sorts. Commercial/industrial rates are commonly materially higher per kwh than residential, at least down here in the Southeast (and therefore I presume elsewhere nationally). So I suspect the jump to 24 cents a year ago was really correcting an early mistake. And then the nationwide increases this week strike me as location-specific pricing adjustments that are either the result of a more granular cost analysis by some finance intern at Tesla (taking into account location-specific construction cost, power cost, parking lot lease cost, maintenance, etc), or potentially also with a demand component (which I doubt...a bit early for this) to smooth out demand in any given area. As an example of my point about a more detailed cost analysis, there are three SC locations in the Jacksonville, FL area, and the pricing went up at all three but varies by a penny among them. I suspect that's due to differing leasing costs in the various strip malls and gas stations where the SCs are located.

Your broader point, that Tesla owners are essentially captive to the SC network and pricing, is a good one and something owners and prospective owners will need to bear in mind. But it's the 'prospective owner' bit that is what will help keep Tesla honest about SCs not becoming a profit center. We all know there are an endless number of ways to calculate whether a SC is a loser, or breakeven, or profitable, so it is quite easy for Tesla to increase SC pricing yet still claim it's merely a breakeven service.

For my SC use (roadtrips between ATL and Florida) my cost has now gone up to about 6 cents/mile. That is roughly on par with current gasoline prices down here (assuming 25mpg in an ICE). So I currently don't save money vs ICE when fueling on road trips. Road trips are about half my mileage thus far. So this is something I will be watching, as a big part of my use case for Model 3 was paying for the car over time via gasoline vs electricity savings. Since I'm currently not achieving that savings on half of my Model 3 miles, I need gasoline prices to go back up, or SC pricing to come back down, or for my mix of use to be less than 50% road trips. Only the first of those three possibilities is likely.

 

[Az_Rael]

... are you claiming GM has magic brake fluid that is good for 10 years/150k miles between changes? Because everyone else on earth says it needs to be changed every 2-4 years- including Tesla.

(and other than that the actual required maintenance items between the model 3 and Volt are identical- the volt just goes longer between those coolant changes)

You are correct, the brake fluid must be changed every 5 years. Still better than the Tesla 2 year interval.

And, yes, doing the same maintenance items on longer intervals equals LESS MAINTENANCE. Much less maintenance in this case.

 

[NeverFollow]

Good morning,

I always want everyone else to see what I see, what's happening in our world. I get that's not realistic.

I ignored the legitimate concerns of those who bought the car for their reasons different than mine, and that the increase in SC costs was a bummer for them. Not cool. Gore Vidal would be pissed at me.

I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. Through good luck, hard work, good luck and hard work, I've managed to get my family to a place that seems like a trip. Some days I have to remind myself to reconnect with the struggle. Blogging about the struggle isn't connecting to the struggle.

We have solar, most months we generate more energy than we use. In those months the amount of charging I do at home now will amount to an electricity bill of a couple bucks. So overall, charging at home costs us...not much. Some months the cost is $0.

Hopefully this will prompt more development in solar. I know since we bought panels in 2006, costs have come way down.

Peace and love,

Wow! I was looking with interest to your solar panel installation.
I noticed that you have 7 x 6 = 42 electric solar panels, 2 hot water (?) solar panel, a natural gas meter...
Do you have a web page describing your system, such as roof panels, batteries storage(?), electric converters...,
where you can give an idea of energy produced over the year, usage and consumption from or to the grid...

I have seen few solar installations where I live, but in general there isn't any battery storage,
so the system produces electricity to the grid during the day, but you have to buy electricity at night.
Talking with a house owner, I find it to be a little bit a scam, IMO, as the solar company get the
credit for the excess of electricity. I have the impression that this solar company installed
a more bigger system it would really be needed for this particular user which is leasing the system.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Some people want to cherry pick individual circumstances to determine cost comparisons between ICE or EVs. Some will find the EV makes financial sense and others will do better with an ICE.

For most of us, it is the total package that determines the vehicle they will drive. With about 1,000 different variations of personal transportation available, it make sense to look at your own individual circumstances.

For many of us in Southern areas, the combination of personal solar and an EV simply blows away any other alternative. If you live in an area where gas costs are low and electric costs high, then perhaps a fuel efficient ICE will fit your pocketbook better.

 

[Zorg]

I mostly charge at home (solar panel paid for, so basically free going forward) and at work, also free. So paying some amount on road trip is not a big deal. Superchargers are a major investment, about $300k a pop, and require rent and utilities charges. That somehow has to be paid for.

 

[Kant.Ing]

I cannot believe anyone would buy a Tesla without having charging where they live as not going to a pump or external source for charging is a huge benefit.

Me either. Charging at home seems a luxury item to them, instead they rather spend precious family or private time in public charging stations. This kind of lifestyle doesn't make sense or definitely should be considered before making the purchase and not after.

 

[GenoM3P]

Texas is a cost per minute state, which I think is mandated by electricity regulation. The Tesla website says it's $.14/minute at/below 60 kW and $.28/minute above 60 kW. My 2018 charges were at $.10 and $.20. I can live with that--but I had better see a Supercharger in Arkadelphia, AR and in Clayton, NM in 2019!

The cheapest gasoline in my area is about $1.80/gallon. But the problem is, I can't put gas in my Model 3 LR, so it's moot.

 

[Gavyne]

Many have no charge at home choice, especially those that live in apartments or inside cities. I charge only at Superchargers, I have 3 locations to choose from within 10 miles of me.

It has worked well for me, I charge once a week mostly unless I’m taking a longer trip. No issues at all I just chill, browse this forum, and have a cup of coffee while charging like I am right now.

Tesla recently opened a 24 stalls urban Superchargers here it’s never 100% full so I’m not inconveniencing anybody else. It’s totally fine to live off Superchargers.

And as for what I think of the raised price, I say “do what you got to do boss”. My cup of coffee and snacks still cost more than filling my car up so I’m not going to freak out over it.

 

[Galve2000]

I never ever used or considered using any if those. My car has enough range for my around-town needs and Level 2 chargers are nowhere near fast enough to enable any reasonable travel. In any circumstance, I couldn’t afford to trade half a day for $10 worth of electricity, so all those chargers are of no interest to me.

I wonder how mainstream or fringe my opinion is.

I think that while it is the most logical opinion, it is not the most prevalent opinion.. "Free" is a very, very powerful motivator.. usually causing irrational behavior...

but I wonder.. where are you located? I suspect you are in a place with low energy costs. some of us pay thru the nose for our energy needs.. so its nice to get a break once in a while.. never mind what we can afford and what we can't. it's just nice to get a break...

I'm finding 20-30% of the time I never get charged when I use an Urban Supercharger.

i've been thinking about this for a while. for one thing, most urban SCers require a hefty parking fee to access. many of these lots are valet.. so you are at the mercy of the attendants for idle fees too.. and somehow I suspect that at such lots, even the idle fees are waved. but I only have anecdotal evidence that this is the case.. makes sense tho..

Honestly, it’s probably long overdue... With the amount of power those things could pump out and the demand charges that power companies generally charge commercial entities for, they still might not be even breaking even, even after the current price hikes.

I would very much like to see Tesla's monthly SCer costs for the entire network. electricity costs, maintenance costs, and build out costs... i'm so curious.. I get it, this is all considered a marketing/advertising cost, but I want to see what it is.. anyone have any idea?

I miss my Chevy Volt more and more each day

I had a 2012 Volt until I got my Model S in 2015. loved that car. but I was READY to trade up when my volt lease was up. BTW one of my quotes of your post is missing. I hit dislike in your post b/c of your "never go to a gas station again: say hello to Idle fees comments.

now idle fees bother me also... but they are necessary. there is just too much supercharger congestion. perhaps the rising princes will help curtail this.. as someone who doesn't have home charging, I have had to deal with a tremendous amount of Destination Charge congestion over the past 3 years (and even when I had my Volt, the ChargePoint EVSE I was using was often occupied) so I know SCing congestion was bound to start being a problem. There are too many cars, and not enough superchargers.. you have to incentivize people to move their cars once they are done charging.. particularly if there are other cars waiting to charge... that's how scarce resources are shared. not everyone is happy all of the time, but most people are happy most of the time. it is the best we can do.

Tesla highly promotes no need for home charging to push S sales, this is a fact in the Bay Area and they also promoted the free or low cost that followed.

I don't know if I would agree with your "heavily promotes" comment.. back in March 2015 when I ordered my Model S, I was told that it was possible to own a Model S without a dedicated place to charge at home.. but that I really needed to look into some long term home charging solution. between May 2016 and until June 2018 my charging needs were met by a valet service that offered level 2 charging at their garages.. but again it was EVSE congestion all the time.. too many cars, not enough chargers... that valet service is now defunct, so I am again having to find somewhere to charge my car. since I purchased my car there are many, many more SCers (and destination chargers) in the NYC metro area.

back when I had my chevy volt, I was paying 0.39/kWh to drive 30 miles without using gas... like most Model S owners on this forum, I can afford to pay $0.39/kWh even tho it is WAY more expensive than gas, even at peak crude/gas prices. and for a long time, I did this.. I paid thru the nose so that my Volt would stealth drive the streets of NYC in what I liked to call "ninja mode" -- totally silent.. and spirited driving...

but after a bout a year.. the novelty wore off.. for the last 20 months of ownership, I drove my volt almost exclusively on gas.. (my Volt stats were an embarrassment) but I was no longer willing to splurge so much on "fuel" even as I enjoyed my Volt the most in "ninja mode"

it just wasn't worth it anymore.

btw in terms of the Model S the original ChargePoint pricing of $2.50$-3.00 per hour was more affordable b/c the AC-DC converter (onboard charger) of the Model S could get 22 miles per hour of charge -- 6.6 kWh max at the ChargePoint EVSE -- vs the partly 16 amp Volt onboard charger which only got 3.3 kW.

at the time I thought it was more fair to pay per kWh, but I can see how the change screwed Model S owners.

I still don't miss my Volt as much as I love my Tesla