Switching from TM3 to Jaguar I-Pace

[McRat]

As someone who owns a 3 I really think you guys should think twice before ordering this jaguar suv.

The range of that thing is in $35k model 3 territory (its even worse with the lack of supercharging network).. its stunning that they can only achieve 240 miles for a mini suv and a gigantic 90 kWh battery.. just that alone screams that something is messed up.

As a Californian (we normally get EVs first) who has waited 26 month and a day for a Model 3 without even being asked to order, I ordered the Jaguar because I did think twice. Heck, I was already going to spend 'Corvette' money on the Model S, so why not get something nice.
The battery capacity is 84.7kWh and it's permanent magnet tech, with the newer euro WLTP range of 398km, it should need to get 3.5 miles per kWh to reach 300 miles of range. I'm guessing that will be doable. Charging at newer DCFCs will be 80% in 40 minutes. We will see.

The Model 3 comparably equipped will be $62k or more. But it won't have as much amenities. So the Jaguar it's $24k more. What does that get you?

More Service Centers. Jaguar Land Rover support. Ability to use it on mild fireroads (20" of water crossing, 9.5" ground clearance, creep-mode cruise control, Land Rover AdSR traction system, anti-rollover system), ice/snow escape, 99 mph AEB, 112 mph autosteering and ACC, digital fully adjustable shocks + air suspension, longer wheelbase, wider track, better suspension for superior ride and handling. 4.5s to 60 mph, more cargo room, and uniqueness. There will only be a few Photon Red i-Paces ever built, they are Jaguars. Quick like a Porsche Turbo Macan, but $25k less after rebates. The Jags are advertised as being good road cars, letting the press drive on road courses and AutoX's, but also Land Rover brothers. It tightens up the steering, lowers the car, alters the throttle tip-in, and stiffens the suspension for road work, based on your cellphone presence for each driver. Or you lift it up, set it for trail use, and use it like a entry level Land Rover.

It's a different kind of car than a Tesla with similar range. But it is all EV.

 

[xav-]

And Jag claims it can go faster than Roadster v2

I heard 125 mph top speed and 0 to 62 in 4.4 sec.. I definitely missed that...

 

[Henchman]

My biggest complaint with chademo stations, is there's usually only one or two per location.

 

[McRat]

My biggest complaint with chademo stations, is there's usually only one or two per location.

Most recent data says the Jaguar is CCS.

 

[avoigt]

You ordered now and not taking delivery till September? I thought they were building now?

The I-Pace is not in the same category as a M3. I can understand why your wife loves it. Given that the AWD M3 is not available and the MY is not even announced; Tesla will have some real competition now. More on the way. Good for all consumers.

I think in Europe, Jaguar may have a winner. Given the public charging infrastructure being built.

Time will tell. It would be good to have competition but given the huge demand for EVs and low supply I am not sure if we should call it competition to Tesla. This may not take a single order away from Tesla including the one from mariopaol.

I like the look and specs too but wonder about the batterie technology and charging infrastructure.

With the 350kw from Iony you risk overheating the batterie at that pack size and fast degredation with that low resales value and shrinking range. I hope they have a good solution though.

There is a good reason why Tesla is going for "only" 250kw as a next step. Also if Jaguar has not really a very well designed Batterie Management System the Batterie may loose range as the Leaf does which makes your car loose value quickly.

Finally the Iony Chargers are yet to be build. The intend to have 400 in 2020 so that would not help today with charging.

Do you have an AP like system in the iPace?

 

[daktari]

I-Pace will fast charge at max 100 kW. The 350 kW is Porsche.
It will have full BMS with heating, cooling and a heat pump.
Yes, the I-pace has an advanced lane keep assist.

In less than a week, the 6th of June, at least euro journalists will release their first experiences after extensive driving. Hope we get more details then.

 

[McRat]

...
Do you have an AP like system in the iPace?

Best I can tell so far:
It uses radar, cameras, and ultrasound.
Automatic braking to 99mph.
Steering assist to 112mph, but you need to keep a hand present like Tesla. If you ignore 'hands' warning it turns off autosteering.
Adaptive cruise to 112mph, keeps going even if steering assist is disabled.
Blind spot monitoring (mirror icons) will try to stop you from changing lanes into other car's paths by steering correction. But does not change lanes automatically.
If you start to fall asleep or ignore the road, it tries to wake you up.
Parking assist, parallel and perpendicular, also supposedly locates parking lots? Huh? Not sure.

The owner's manual is preliminary. There is no USA manual yet.

 

[avoigt]

It was said the iPace will charge with Ionity. The Ionity Chargers go for up to 350. See link below.

ONITY ist das Joint Venture der Automobilhersteller BMW Group, Daimler AG, Ford Motor Company sowie des Volkswagen Konzerns mit Audi und Porsche. Wir treten an, um ein Netz zuverlässiger und leistungsstarker Ladestationen entlang der europäischen Hauptverkehrsachsen zu realisieren. Mit ihrer Leistung von bis zu 350 kW ermöglichen diese Stationen kürzeste Ladezeiten bei gleichzeitig komfortabler Nutzung.

http://www.ionity.eu

Porsche does go for the same kw at their dealer shops in the US.

I ask myself if that is a dead end road and not well thought through. We will see but Tesla has so far the best Technology in the market and they did want to go for faster than 350kw 2 years ago and in the meantime decided against it. With the best Battery Scientist in their lab there will be a good and very valid reason for this.

Good to hear about Battery Management System but again all other Batteries out there are losing charging capacity and they all claim Tesla is using the same batteries which I don't buy.

Assuming the have a great Batterie we will likely all agree that there is no charging infrastructure in place that will make the car as usable as a Tesla with the SC network.

Last not least I find it quite expensive for the size and what you get compared to a Tesla S or X or 3.

Again I like competition and hope Jag did do their homework and delivers on the promise.

 

[arnis]

iPace has Combo2 in EU and will have Combo1 in US (Mennekes and J1772 respectively for AC charging).
ChaDeMo is Asian standard.

iPace will support charging UP TO 100kW.
350kW is maximum power for charging station, divided to multiple stalls. It is based on much higher voltage than 400V.
350kW light duty passenger vehicle charging will not happen within 10 years. And it will not happen on a single vehicle
with any station built up to this date. None of those help cool battery. Small vehicle can NOT have onboard active battery cooling
capable enough to charge battery at those rates. AFAIK, looking at Tesla, 140-150kW is pretty much MAX in mild weather.

 

[McRat]

So far the JLR claim is 40 minutes for 67.76 kWh if 100kW charging is available. I don't believe that yet.

If you are aware, that's 100 kW per hour average. I think it's somebody at JLR who does documentation doesn't fully understand how charging works. But that would be wonderful if true. That's faster than anyone else is charging. Full charging rate up to 80%, so it must have a massive cooling system if true.

The EV400 uses the LG pouch cells, probably similar to what Chevrolet uses. However it's 432 cells and 388vdc nominal. That's higher voltage than most other companies are using. Most are going 96 cells in series, JLR is going 108s4p cells it seems. Roughly 450 volts when charged?

 

[McRat]

...

Last not least I find it quite expensive for the size and what you get compared to a Tesla S or X or 3.

...

Tip: If you're trying to save money, looking at $50,000-$162,200 cars is probably not wise.
The Jaguar i-Pace starts at $70,495 and ends at under $100,000.

Do you get your money's worth with the Jaguar i-Pace EV400 First Edition?

No. But that's true for nearly all EVs and hybrids in the USA. The extra cost of the hybrid or EV drive seldom pays for itself.

And I could grab 3 brand new Chevrolet Volts for the price of a FE.

 

[the good touch]

I can’t stand the I-pace interior. It looks so old school. Probably going to have a solid build though

 

[sub]

Hope the ipace sells well, most of the differences are subjective (styling, size preference) and I'm all for replacing every ICE with an EV so Jag can start helping Tesla, GM, Nissan etc get it done.

Comparisons only matter so much however, look at all the comparisons of the bolt to the model 3? Anyone see the bolt ever selling as well as the 3 if GM attempted to build that many? Don't think so. The ipace isn't a Tesla, just like a corvette isn't a Ferrari.

Tesla won't lose a single sale due to the ipace, they can't make S,X,3 fast enough.

The supercharger network or equal is a must have, I could not have bought the Tesla without it. I've used a supercharger 20-30x in 6 months and used 12-15 difference locations all over California and Nevada. Without the network our model X would be a city car no better than a leaf or i3.

I leased an i3 for two years waiting for our m3 before finally running out of time and buying the X instead. Couldn't get farther than 30 miles from home in the i3 and make it home safely, I live in the foothills. Our family referred to it as the "clown car", my 15 year old daughter was embarrassed to be seen in it.

The advantage Tesla will always have is the supercharger network PLUS whatever other network is built, no one else will have this.

Edit - forgot to add how much we love the model X. Yes, we have had a few of the common small issues that needed SC visits. The only bad thing about that is driving something else for a few days, even if it's a model S which it usually is, it doesn't compare.

 

[McRat]

... The ipace isn't a Tesla, just like a corvette isn't a Ferrari.

Tesla won't lose a single sale due to the ipace, they can't make S,X,3 fast enough.

....

Coming from somebody who thought an i3 was good idea? The only possible reason for an i3 is that you need to tell folk you have a BMW. Pretty fkg useless otherwise. Much better EVs for much cheaper are available if you are not badge conscious.

Are you aware you can't get a stick shift Ferrari, and a Corvette is faster around a track? The Stallion has been gelded.

The idea that a Tesla badge is more fashion conscious than a Jaguar badge in California is debatable. While I'm not into badges, Jaguar does denote a racing heritage that Tesla lacks. Much like why folk buy Ferraris. There is a pedigree. Tesla lacks any racing DNA whatsoever.

But the main thing about the Jaguar is there is a 100+ different options. Other than the limited edition FE, no two i-Pace EV400's will be alike. But it will be first year, probably some bugs. However JLR put 1.5 million miles of testing in the i-Pace as of December 2017: Jaguar I-Pace electric car testing: 200 cars, 1.5 million miles, and counting and they do have OTA just in case.

Tesla relies on OTA and has the customers to do initial testing. Or you would not find out the brakes were pooched 10 months after release and other easy to test issues.

Oddly enough, the reason I'm getting a Jaguar is due to my wife. She has an equal say in major purchases and she has extensive seat time on closed course tracks and has a competition license as well.

She didn't like the Model S or X. But she did 'accept' the Model 3. She loves the idea and price of the Jaguar. And for us, there is no option of a Model 3 other than used. I do not anticipate Model 3 availability of even the base configuration (LR/PUP) for all Day One donors until the fall or winter. I could be wrong of course. It's been over 4 months since I was told I'd receive a Model 3, and 2 years, 2 months, and 3 days since I donated. There was no guarantee that the $1000 would be refundable back then or now. So I saw it as a donation for a good cause, and gave it a 50/50 chance. Well, the coin came up heads! Congrats Elon! and the 20,000 people who patiently waited between 2 years and 2 months (2m = existing owners, their friends, and some speculators) depending on the rules at the time.

So perhaps Tesla might lose one sale. I doubt I'm alone. We will see come July/August when the EV400s are available for test drives in the US.

Of course Jaguar could screw this up. They could fail to deliver / on time. That's why I haven't cancelled the Model 3 donation, but it could be a long time before I get an 'invite' for a Model 3. There could even be other options by then. Who knows? And even a Model 3 invite today doesn't guarantee a delivery this year of anything but the LR/PUP/RWD black interior version. I hate black interiors and glass roofs. Sadly the Jaguar has a glass roof on the FE, but that was my choice. I could have bought a version with a hardtop but not if I wanted the FE package. It does have a light interior option.

 

[sub]

Coming from somebody who thought an i3 was good idea? The only possible reason for an i3 is that you need to tell folk you have a BMW. Pretty fkg useless otherwise. Much better EVs for much cheaper are available if you are not badge conscious.

Are you aware you can't get a stick shift Ferrari, and a Corvette is faster around a track? The Stallion has been gelded.

The idea that a Tesla badge is more fashion conscious than a Jaguar badge in California is debatable. While I'm not into badges, Jaguar does denote a racing heritage that Tesla lacks. Much like why folk buy Ferraris. There is a pedigree. Tesla lacks any racing DNA whatsoever.

But the main thing about the Jaguar is there is a 100+ different options. Other than the limited edition FE, no two i-Pace EV400's will be alike. But it will be first year, probably some bugs. However JLR put 1.5 million miles of testing in the i-Pace as of December 2017: Jaguar I-Pace electric car testing: 200 cars, 1.5 million miles, and counting and they do have OTA just in case.

Tesla relies on OTA and has the customers to do initial testing. Or you would not find out the brakes were pooched 10 months after release and other easy to test issues.

Oddly enough, the reason I'm getting a Jaguar is due to my wife. She has an equal say in major purchases and she has extensive seat time on closed course tracks and has a competition license as well.

She didn't like the Model S or X. But she did 'accept' the Model 3. She loves the idea and price of the Jaguar. And for us, there is no option of a Model 3 other than used. I do not anticipate Model 3 availability of even the base configuration (LR/PUP) for all Day One donors until the fall or winter. I could be wrong of course. It's been over 4 months since I was told I'd receive a Model 3, and 2 years, 2 months, and 3 days since I donated. There was no guarantee that the $1000 would be refundable back then or now. So I saw it as a donation for a good cause, and gave it a 50/50 chance. Well, the coin came up heads! Congrats Elon! and the 20,000 people who patiently waited between 2 years and 2 months (2m = existing owners, their friends, and some speculators) depending on the rules at the time.

So perhaps Tesla might lose one sale. I doubt I'm alone. We will see come July/August when the EV400s are available for test drives in the US.

Of course Jaguar could screw this up. They could fail to deliver / on time. That's why I haven't cancelled the Model 3 donation, but it could be a long time before I get an 'invite' for a Model 3. There could even be other options by then. Who knows? And even a Model 3 invite today doesn't guarantee a delivery this year of anything but the LR/PUP/RWD black interior version. I hate black interiors and glass roofs. Sadly the Jaguar has a glass roof on the FE, but that was my choice. I could have bought a version with a hardtop but not if I wanted the FE package. It does have a light interior option.

Not sure where I praised the i3? I left out some details because I didn't think it was important. We leased the i3 did two years, no way I would have purchased that car. For what it was, a small city car it was fine but 55k! We also test drove the egolf by talk about boring.

As far as corvette vs Ferrari, my point wasn't what would win a race, the percentage of people that care about cars in that level is so small as to not matter to MOST manufacturers.

I waited in line day 1 and made two model 3 reservations, zero concern Tesla was going to not deliver the car AND keep my deposits. You stating otherwise shows your bias in the discussion.

No, Tesla did not lose sales to the few who changed from model 3 to ipace until the day comes they produce a car they never sale. They lost some customers.

We need 10's of millions of EV's a year, plenty of room for everyone.

 

[Henchman]

I simply find the Jaguar fugly inside and out.

Now, had they made an electric F-Type, then they'd be talking serious competition.

 

[drawfour]

I simply find the Jaguar fugly inside and out.

Now, had they made an electric F-Type, then they'd be talking serious competition.

+1. The backend of that is really ugly. It only looks good from front-on or maybe a 10 degree angle from front. As soon as you can see any of the back, I just cringe. Reminds me of Range Rovers and their ugly back ends. Except uglier.

 

[McRat]

Not sure where I praised the i3? I left out some details because I didn't think it was important. We leased the i3 did two years, no way I would have purchased that car. For what it was, a small city car it was fine but 55k! We also test drove the egolf by talk about boring.

As far as corvette vs Ferrari, my point wasn't what would win a race, the percentage of people that care about cars in that level is so small as to not matter to MOST manufacturers.

I waited in line day 1 and made two model 3 reservations, zero concern Tesla was going to not deliver the car AND keep my deposits. You stating otherwise shows your bias in the discussion.

No, Tesla did not lose sales to the few who changed from model 3 to ipace until the day comes they produce a car they never sale. They lost some customers.

We need 10's of millions of EV's a year, plenty of room for everyone.

You vote with your wallet. If you gave BMW money for a car over another brand, you voted the BMW as being superior.

A deposit is an unsecured debt in a BK filing. Only the share price keeps the company solvent. A market crash and your deposit vanishes. Tesla lacks assets to cover their secured debts and wages. Assets sell for far less than book value at auction.

No company is 100% guaranteed to remain solvent. But Tesla lost about a billion dollar in the 12 months preceding the Reservation Day.

I made the false assumption that the most expensive variant would be sold first, so I could get one fairly early. So I stayed at work, checking heart valves and satellites instead of doing the Black Friday at Walmart thing. Then I ordered online after the presentation. My bad.

Or perhaps it will work out better? If the EV400 is more to my liking than the Model P3D, I win. Pretty much same price. I'm certainly not ordering a LR/PUP like I was going to in Nov/Jan just to get what I can.

Europe will be the first indicator. They should see EV400's in July/Aug for sale. If it affects MS/X sales, you'll see it.

 

[NerdUno]

My problem with the i-Pace is the home charging option which is limited to dog-slow 120 volts. That means you get about 50 miles with an overnight charge unless I've misread the comments on the other forums.

 

[arnis]

My problem with the i-Pace is the home charging option which is limited to dog-slow 120 volts. That means you get about 50 miles with an overnight charge unless I've misread the comments on the other forums.

All electric cars have at least 3.3kW onboard charger (240V 16A).
Many with larger batteries come with 7kW charger, that includes i-Pace. 240V 32A, same as Model 3.
All you need is an appropriate installation at home.