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Tax Credit Clarification

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Sorry hit post reply by accident, and can't figure out how to edit my post.

I personally like this much better, as it provides the buyer the ability to either take the savings, and potential reduced interest payments (in case the buyer decides to now pay down the principle with the tax credit), or use the instant credit on upgrades.
 
You know what I think Elon/Tesla could do if the 200,000 sale marker approaches faster than the Model 3 release?
They could ask current S/X orders approaching the limit if they would be willing to wait for delivery for the cars until the beginning of the next quarter coinciding with the Model 3 release and sell those cars at a $7500 or something.
That way all sales of the model 3 will have 2 full quarters of the full $7500 tax credit during phaseout, and those model s/x orders that waited can double dip their $7500 from Tesla and tax credits.

Would be a great way for Elon to build brand loyalty for what may seem like an insignificant short term cost to the company. Would also help to ensure a higher percentage of those 400,000 orders get flipped to actual purchases.

Not sure how likely it would be to happen, but I definitely think it's something Tesla could afford.
 
You know what I think Elon/Tesla could do if the 200,000 sale marker approaches faster than the Model 3 release?
They could ask current S/X orders approaching the limit if they would be willing to wait for delivery for the cars until the beginning of the next quarter coinciding with the Model 3 release and sell those cars at a $7500 or something.
That way all sales of the model 3 will have 2 full quarters of the full $7500 tax credit during phaseout, and those model s/x orders that waited can double dip their $7500 from Tesla and tax credits.

Would be a great way for Elon to build brand loyalty for what may seem like an insignificant short term cost to the company. Would also help to ensure a higher percentage of those 400,000 orders get flipped to actual purchases.

Not sure how likely it would be to happen, but I definitely think it's something Tesla could afford.
Meant to say "sell those cars at a $7500 discount or something."
 
I see you live in West Virginia. It might get further if you pointed out to your congress person that more EVs mean more electricity usage which will increase the demand for coal.

Coal is a dying industry and politics isn't going to save it. Even without stricter environmental regulations it's not cost effective to burn it anymore. North America has a glut of natural gas that makes it very cheap. Alternatives like solar and wind are becoming a larger part of the energy economy. The environmental regulations tilt the balance even more against coal, but economics are driving down coal use too.

If the country shifted to electric cars faster, it would extend the life of coal power plants a little further as higher demand for electricity would keep them open a bit longer.
 
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so, I don't need to be a full time resident to get a $5,000 credit from Tesla. I just need a post box in the boonies to send the paperwork through?

I've been reading your posts and I'm in the same situation as you, I will likely be moving back to Colorado in 2017 or 2018. The law doesn't seem to mention residency status but I believe to register a vehicle there you must be a resident and you must register it in Colorado to receive the credit.

Interesting that the are allowing it to be taken off at the time of sale. Should make it much simpler but $1000 is a decent drop.
 
jsrawa said - Interesting that the are allowing it to be taken off at the time of sale. Should make it much simpler but $1000 is a decent drop.

Not sure I followed your post. Can you rephrase for my thick skull? Tax tactics are not my speciality..so I tend to summarize.

a) $7500 from Fed as tax credit - assumes $7500 in tax liability, payable when 1040 filed.
b) Colo - Colorado is now a $5k immediate credit at the time of purchase (i.e. the manufacture is able to reduce the price of a vehicle $5k). and a $550 sales tax/license fee.
c) Colo - I THOUGHT had some $1000 rebate for buying a HPWC installation.

If I stay retired in AZ, continue to fund my retired lifestyle by IRA withdrawals, I can generate $7500 in tax liability. Simple and familiar.

Snow-bird to Durango and filing for voter registration and residency nets $6000 in Credit. Don't think there has to be earned Colorado income - IRA withdrawals should qualify for Tesla based credits., Don't think there is a minimum time I have to live there before I can return to AZ. Seems too simple. Am I being a tax-cheat to rent a Durango apartment when My Tesla gets ordered?
 
I think the saying "if you have to ask.." applies here. ;)
now-now...I try to live by the rules, I've paid tons of Taxes to Colo for past work (as a Petroleum Engineer). If there is a (legal) path that lets me claim thousands of credits with just a little effort - who was that (Supreme Court Judge) that said something like "pay your taxes but no obligation to pay more than needed".
My tax gymnastics amount to giving my wife a shoebox of receipts and let her turn the crank on Turbotax. If getting a Durango mailbox is too thin of ice to pursue, then I'll not do it. But...if legal and profitable...why not?
 
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jsrawa said - Interesting that the are allowing it to be taken off at the time of sale. Should make it much simpler but $1000 is a decent drop.

Not sure I followed your post. Can you rephrase for my thick skull? Tax tactics are not my speciality..so I tend to summarize.

a) $7500 from Fed as tax credit - assumes $7500 in tax liability, payable when 1040 filed.
b) Colo - Colorado is now a $5k immediate credit at the time of purchase (i.e. the manufacture is able to reduce the price of a vehicle $5k). and a $550 sales tax/license fee.
c) Colo - I THOUGHT had some $1000 rebate for buying a HPWC installation.

If I stay retired in AZ, continue to fund my retired lifestyle by IRA withdrawals, I can generate $7500 in tax liability. Simple and familiar.

Snow-bird to Durango and filing for voter registration and residency nets $6000 in Credit. Don't think there has to be earned Colorado income - IRA withdrawals should qualify for Tesla based credits., Don't think there is a minimum time I have to live there before I can return to AZ. Seems too simple. Am I being a tax-cheat to rent a Durango apartment when My Tesla gets ordered?

The way I understand the new rules, the credit can only be paid to whoever is financing the car, IE, the bank or you. Not to the manufacturer. So there won't be any changes to the taxes/registration you pay.
 
I see you live in West Virginia. It might get further if you pointed out to your congress person that more EVs mean more electricity usage which will increase the demand for coal.

Coal is a dying industry and politics isn't going to save it. Even without stricter environmental regulations it's not cost effective to burn it anymore. North America has a glut of natural gas that makes it very cheap. Alternatives like solar and wind are becoming a larger part of the energy economy. The environmental regulations tilt the balance even more against coal, but economics are driving down coal use too.

Actually I did point out that it will drive the demand for electricity and coal. I didn't mention it in my post since this is a pretty "green" forum.
 
Good question: it makes a BIG difference. When you purchase the car you claim the tax credit on your taxes, for however much you pay in federal income tax in the year of purchase (buy in 2016, file for credit the next year when doing 2016 tax return) up to $7500.

If you lease the car the tax credit goes to the leasing company. Here's where it gets complicated: the leasing company can, if they choose, give you the benefit of the tax credit by using it as part of the down payment or by increasing the residual value of the car. Tesla's leasing partner currently uses the latter method. By increasing the residual value of the car they reduce the capital cost that is being financed by the lease, thus reducing lease payments. However, if you were to buy the car at the end of the lease, Tesla's leasing partner currently charges the residual plus tax credit, meaning that you get zero benefit from the credit and the leasing company keeps it. This makes leasing-to-buy a very bad deal as Tesla leases are currently structured (but it could change).

Example: you lease a Model 3 for $42,000 and put $2000 down, the residual value at three years is $21,000. The lease would be based on $42,000 - $2000 -$21,000 = $19,000. So, your lease payments would need to cover $19,000 plus interest over three years. Counting the tax credit it would work like this:
$42,000 - $2000 - ($21,000 + $7500) = $40,000 - $28,500 = $11,500. The lease payments would cover $11,500 plus interest and be much lower than when they were based on $19,000.

So far, so good. However, if you buy the car off-lease you would pay $21,000 in the no tax credit case but would have to pay $28,500 in the tax credit case (according to Tesla representatives I have spoken with). The leasing company keeps the tax credit as pure profit, because they do own the car, after all, although it makes little sense if the goal is to sell cars.

Yes, I used that strategy when I purchased a LEAF in 2011: I converted a chunk of one of my IRAs to a Roth IRA, thus raising my income (because a taxable IRA to Roth IRA conversion is counted as taxable income). The problem is that by doing that I ended up raising my tax bracket, thus offsetting a large part of the benefit I gained from receiving the tax credit. (Because I ended up paying more in taxes than I would if I had just gradually converted my IRA over many years in a lower tax bracket, my usual strategy.) So, yes you can do this, but unless you stay in your usual tax bracket it is somewhat tax-inefficient. FWIW.

Just withdrawing money from a taxable IRA wouldn't work well unless you are over age 59½. Otherwise you would pay a penalty on top of the income taxes owed. Not a good idea.



OK - I am getting much more involved now in the purchase of a MS. I thought I could borrow at 0.99 APR from USAA, but because Tesla does not participate in TrueCar, that rate is not available. So Tesla rate of 1.74 looks good...until I see this clause that the $7500 is treated as a rebate to me upon purchase/accepting the loan. As I look at the Lease...got it, don't want to go there...but what kinks are there in the Tesla Loan?
 
OK - I am getting much more involved now in the purchase of a MS. I thought I could borrow at 0.99 APR from USAA, but because Tesla does not participate in TrueCar, that rate is not available. So Tesla rate of 1.74 looks good...until I see this clause that the $7500 is treated as a rebate to me upon purchase/accepting the loan. As I look at the Lease...got it, don't want to go there...but what kinks are there in the Tesla Loan?
Do you have a specific question ?
 
OK - I am getting much more involved now in the purchase of a MS. I thought I could borrow at 0.99 APR from USAA, but because Tesla does not participate in TrueCar, that rate is not available. So Tesla rate of 1.74 looks good...until I see this clause that the $7500 is treated as a rebate to me upon purchase/accepting the loan. As I look at the Lease...got it, don't want to go there...but what kinks are there in the Tesla Loan?
Check out Alliant credit union. They'll give you 1.49% assuming good credit. With purchasing, the only "kink" is you get the tax credit (as much as you are eligible for if you don't have enough tax liability) when you file your taxes next year, not when you buy the car. You can mitigate this somewhat if you have tax withheld from your paycheck by updating your W-4 with your employer to have 9 exemptions (the max you can do without actually proving you have that many kids!) and having less tax withheld with each paycheck. Just don't forget to revert to normal next year!
 
Check out Alliant credit union. They'll give you 1.49% assuming good credit. With purchasing, the only "kink" is you get the tax credit (as much as you are eligible for if you don't have enough tax liability) when you file your taxes next year, not when you buy the car. You can mitigate this somewhat if you have tax withheld from your paycheck by updating your W-4 with your employer to have 9 exemptions (the max you can do without actually proving you have that many kids!) and having less tax withheld with each paycheck. Just don't forget to revert to normal next year!
You guys are GOOD. Knew I could count on getting sound advice. Thanks...
 
Do you have a specific question ?
Yes - my specific question: Using the Lease, the $7,500 tax benefit gets lost. The Tesla Design "loan" page suggests that the $7500 is applied as a credit upon financing. If I understand the difference - I don't get the $7,500 on my taxes, but get it as a rebate-just like the lease. This seems like a kink - do I loose the 7500 on a loan like I do on a lease? Should I finance elsewhere such that the $7500 in tax credit is a clean IRS issue instead of a loan issue?

So, perhaps "ccutrer" above nailed it. But the clause "offset by $7500 incentives" made me pause and think of the lease and loan had the same flaw/kink.