Tax credit (Green ACT)

[TravelFree]

Look, I don't follow it closely like you do. I just have not been convinced it is important or the recommendations being made will solve the claimed problem. It will make a few wealthy, however. So maybe you have your own agenda. I have none. I do not work in the field and need to earn a living placating the popular topic of the decade and I do not review the data on a daily basis. But I find all the claims being made by the global warming caused by human generated CO2 while so many other sources of greenhouse gasses are ignored even when the evidence is there throughout the life span of the planet.

I do recognize that the climates on the planet change due to astrophysics, not CO2 being generated by humans. I do agree that the % of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing as the population of animal life expands and the plant life is destroyed to make room for civilization to grow. So at some point if this trend continues we will need to get that under control. The solution as I see it is not destroying modern civilization with our key energy source overnight, but a managed global regulation of balance of plant life to animal life. The consensus puts out the FUD that if we continue to burn fossil fuel we will all be dead in 10 years due to violent weather, and planet surface temperatures that are too hot. I just don't see that in the numbers.

I'm sure you do understand that oxygen we need to breathe is generated by plant life and the plant life needs the CO2 we animals generate to live. There needs to be a balance. But I believe two steps must be taken if you want to maintain life on the planet. The population needs to be kept in balance with photosynthesis of plants. And sulfur pollution from fossil fuels needs to be scrubbed. I'm formally a chemical engineer so I understand the chemistry and it is far more important to the immediate preservation of the quality of life for animals than destroying modern civilization with an abrupt shut down of fossil fuels. We know how to scrub sulfur dioxide. Maybe you would like to explain why the consensus ignores these simple facts. If all else was fine and CO2 balance were the only problem we would not have a serious problem based on the greenhouse gas effect of CO2 by humans for several thousand years.

Anyway, I like the tax credits and rebates too and support them. I'm about ready to order the new Y and have decided to not wait on the government. But I worry that too much manipulation by the government is not good. They make too many mistakes and waste too much money.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

I hear you. I too am going to order the Y (our 3rd Tesla) when my wife is ready to let her current cars go. From what you said, it seems that you are mixing up air pollution caused by sulfur oxide (stinky egg smell) with greenhouse gases. Both are important, but they cause different problems. The main greenhouse gases are CO2 and methane. So every car being changed from gas to electric would help slow the increase. In my personal opinion, we need to do this - desperately.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

Ummm... yeah, of course, water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, but we are talking about the gases that we produce by human activities (sure, we breathe out water vapor too, but not a net gain of water). But the rest of what you said is the opposite of what data tells us. For example, you said "historically increased CO2 has a lagging correlation with warming periods". See the attached graph. Temperature changes correlate with CO2 consistently over a period of 800,000 years.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

And on your other point "another is that we are significantly below previous CO2 maximums (the climate did not "runaway"), and we are below the optimum level for plant life." I would love to see your data supporting this statement. But here is data from NOAA showing that the CO2 level in 2019 is higher than at any point in the recent 800,000 years.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

And to an earlier point that human activities do not contribute significantly to the CO2 levels in the atmosphere. Here is a graph showing that atmospheric CO2 increased when the human emission of CO2 increased. I don't understand how to could say that the current CO2 is too low to support life when it is at the highest level in 3 million years for which we have data. Do you have data to support your statement?

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

There are really better places for this debate, because it can become heated and detract from the debate about the form of government support for EVs.

I agree. I have been on car forums for 30 years and had never debated or discuss with anyone on science or climate change.
After the widespread misinformation of late, I feel that we should set record straight wherever and whenever possible, and maybe learn something new in the process.

plan to buy a Model Y this fall.

My likely timeline too.

 

[TravelFree]

From what you said, it seems that you are mixing up air pollution caused by sulfur oxide (stinky egg smell) with greenhouse gases.

Your just going to have to take my word for it, I do not mix up greenhouse gas with toxic gas air pollution. I only said that a much more important issue for quality of life is scrubbing SO2 from fossil fuels combustion which is a rather easy process. as opposed to CO2 which can be very difficult and considering the impact of CO2 as a suspected problem, not worth the cost. BUT, the consensus of our FUD now, the focus is indeed CO2.

It amuses me that once the ignorant finally understood that methane is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2 they targeted cows flatulence and demanded we ban eating beef. Heaven help us if they learn water vapor is the strongest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. LOL!

Anyway, I will make an easy prediction- we are not all going to die by 2030 due to too much CO2. And there will still be far more gasoline cars and diesel trucks on the highway than electric vehicles. I go electric because it is more efficient and lower cost per mile to own. I'm happy!

My advice-- If in 80 years the oceans rise another 10 ft. don't build your home 5 ft above MSL at the beach.

I'll revisit this thread when there is something to report on the original topic of a tax credit or similar. It's moving along in a good direction but way too slow.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

I don’t know anyone who wants to band eating meat (vegetarians probably might) or anyone wanting to get rid of green gases completely, Only the rapid increase in CO2 due to burning fossil fuel and the corresponding increases in temperature. BTW, it doesn't help calling people ignorant without really knowing them. As a professor, I see ignorant people all the time, we are all ignorant at something, but they leave well informed.

 

[OCJeff]

Wow, this went a different direction.

I just want my tax credit. I guess we'll see next week if the Infrastructure Bill has anything in that area for us.

 

[Firocity]

I am just trying to get that tax credit fellows!

 

[TravelFree]

I am just trying to get that tax credit fellows!

Me too but I'll take the blame for having a debate of the engineer who builds stuff people can use vs the professor.

Now to keep my word, I do see the infrastructure talk is moving ahead with a budget for more chargers. Then Musk came out and said he wants to open up the Supercharger to all EV's. I gues with some Tesla to CCS1 adapters. That should upset those Southern California Tesla owners waiting in line for their time to charge.

 

[Plasmid_Boy]

Me too but I'll take the blame for having a debate of the engineer who builds stuff people can use vs the professor.

Now to keep my word, I do see the infrastructure talk is moving ahead with a budget for more chargers. Then Musk came out and said he wants to open up the Supercharger to all EV's. I gues with some Tesla to CCS1 adapters. That should upset those Southern California Tesla owners waiting in line for their time to charge.

Lol, you are too funny. I believe that you misunderstood what professors do. In addition to teaching students in classes, I also work to uncover the mechanisms of diseases and design drugs to combat them (things that people can use). I teach graduate students and postdocs in my lab how to do things so that when they leave they would use the skills I taught them to make drugs for you and your family. In any case, what I am most proud of in my work is not the drugs that I designed (yes the royalty payments I received are great), but the people I have trained. As for engineers vs professors, I have never met an engineer who could build or fix a car better than I can. So please, your perception of a professor in regards to producing practical things seems ill-informed. It is okay though, no offense taken because. Cheers!

 

[TravelFree]

Some leaks are surfacing on the infrastructure bill outline-

As it pertains to EV's part:
1. There is a huge budget to increase charging for EV across the nation.
2. Cash for Clunkers. Offer incentives for those with older gas cars to move to EV,

The bad news is there is no mention of a "tax credit" for purchasing a new EV, extending the current tax credits, or renewing tax credits for Tesla and GM. There is no mention of a rebate plan for buying an EV at all.

The actual wording text is expected to be published before the end of the month which will give Congress April to add and subtract from this initial plan. The budget estimate is said to be $3-4 T and Joe Biden has asked R's to support it so it will pass with 60 votes. If not then the Senate is being asked to change their rules just to pass it with 51 votes.

So, unless the D's decide to go against the Majority leader, Schumer and add more tax credits and has been proposed by Sen Merkley we can forget about waiting for that $7000 credit happening in 2021 or at all. If this cash for clunkers proposal passes there will be no incentive for them to do a stand alone bill for tax credits anytime soon.

If you were counting on that tax credit, why not buy a hundred shares of Tesla stock today and then sell it when it goes up $75 a share? Or, if you can't do that inside a tax exempt account then sell it when it goes up $100 a share to cover your taxes owed. Easiest way I know to earn that $7500.

 

[TheRev]

Some leaks are surfacing on the infrastructure bill outline-

As it pertains to EV's part:
1. There is a huge budget to increase charging for EV across the nation.
2. Cash for Clunkers. Offer incentives for those with older gas cars to move to EV,

The bad news is there is no mention of a "tax credit" for purchasing a new EV, extending the current tax credits, or renewing tax credits for Tesla and GM. There is no mention of a rebate plan for buying an EV at all.

The actual wording text is expected to be published before the end of the month which will give Congress April to add and subtract from this initial plan. The budget estimate is said to be $3-4 T and Joe Biden has asked R's to support it so it will pass with 60 votes. If not then the Senate is being asked to change their rules just to pass it with 51 votes.

So, unless the D's decide to go against the Majority leader, Schumer and add more tax credits and has been proposed by Sen Merkley we can forget about waiting for that $7000 credit happening in 2021 or at all. If this cash for clunkers proposal passes there will be no incentive for them to do a stand alone bill for tax credits anytime soon.

If you were counting on that tax credit, why not buy a hundred shares of Tesla stock today and then sell it when it goes up $75 a share? Or, if you can't do that inside a tax exempt account then sell it when it goes up $100 a share to cover your taxes owed. Easiest way I know to earn that $7500.

Yea because people that actually need a federal tax credit have 62k just laying around waiting to be invested. If you do have that type of money "under your bed" then you prob dont care about a tax credit

 

[RedlineSi]

Some leaks are surfacing on the infrastructure bill outline-

As it pertains to EV's part:
1. There is a huge budget to increase charging for EV across the nation.
2. Cash for Clunkers. Offer incentives for those with older gas cars to move to EV,

The bad news is there is no mention of a "tax credit" for purchasing a new EV, extending the current tax credits, or renewing tax credits for Tesla and GM. There is no mention of a rebate plan for buying an EV at all.

The actual wording text is expected to be published before the end of the month which will give Congress April to add and subtract from this initial plan. The budget estimate is said to be $3-4 T and Joe Biden has asked R's to support it so it will pass with 60 votes. If not then the Senate is being asked to change their rules just to pass it with 51 votes.

So, unless the D's decide to go against the Majority leader, Schumer and add more tax credits and has been proposed by Sen Merkley we can forget about waiting for that $7000 credit happening in 2021 or at all. If this cash for clunkers proposal passes there will be no incentive for them to do a stand alone bill for tax credits anytime soon.

If you were counting on that tax credit, why not buy a hundred shares of Tesla stock today and then sell it when it goes up $75 a share? Or, if you can't do that inside a tax exempt account then sell it when it goes up $100 a share to cover your taxes owed. Easiest way I know to earn that $7500.

I’m sorry dude, your last comment made me literally laugh out loud. Come on now. Only gotta put up $61k in cash and cross my fingers it goes up $75 and then pay taxes on top of that.

 

[OCJeff]

Probably better off buying GME after it's latest dip.

 

[TravelFree]

Probably better off buying GME after it's latest dip.

There is always someone with a better idea. But the fact is, some people are doers and others just laugh as they watch the action leave them behind. Don't you think TSLA is a safer bet than GME?

The action of social media to drive a near bankrupt company to extraordinary highs is the latest Wall Street phenomena. I'm more conservative so I only invest in companies that have a solid footing. It is true that Tesla just this month had enough of a move in 24 hours of trading to more than make up for a lack of a tax credit some are holding out for. But, I prefer to sleep at night and stay out of margin obligations than risk of a social media catalyst stock gain.

 

[TravelFree]

Seems there is more delay on what's going on with Tax credits for EV's

Basically, I think absent a major crises or shake-up we can forget about a Tax Credit expansion especially for Tesla and GM. According to Kevin Paffrath of MeetKevin, there is no reference to these two bills, The Green Act and the Cars Act, but rather only Schumer's Cash for Clunkers plan and since he is the Majority Leader in the Senate and Pelosi in the House is on board with most things Schumer wants and vice versa, the other plans will likely die in committee.

Additionally, the timeline suggested is the Fall for final passage as they expect to debate this for the better part of the year. Besides gun control and killing the filibuster they really have nothing else on the calendar outside of the infrastructure bill.

At this point in time only a part of the infrastructure plan will be released on March 31 and the other part will be delayed until mid April.

This is my take on what has been leaked so far but if you want to hear what Kevin has to say about it-

 

[RedlineSi]

My X5 is paid off in April. I've just decided to play it by ear. If nothing seems to be realistically passed by say Aug/Sept, I'll just pull the trigger anyways.

 

[patmurphey]

Seems there is more delay on what's going on with Tax credits for EV's

Basically, I think absent a major crises or shake-up we can forget about a Tax Credit expansion especially for Tesla and GM. According to Kevin Paffrath of MeetKevin, there is no reference to these two bills, The Green Act and the Cars Act, but rather only Schumer's Cash for Clunkers plan and since he is the Majority Leader in the Senate and Pelosi in the House is on board with most things Schumer wants and vice versa, the other plans will likely die in committee.

What is Schumer thinking??? Has he actually driven a car in the last 30 years. Trusting an old New Yorker who knows nothing about cars and has been in politics all his adult life is nonsense. People drive clunkers because they can't afford a newer car. How cheap will Schumer have to make EVs to make them affordable? Meanwhile, all EVs will become significantly more expensive as the 200,000 is reached for all brands. If he actually wants to have the masses buy EVs, he just has to restore the credit in some form.

I guess I'll have to got out and buy a wreck so I can trade it in for my upcoming Model Y.