Media has to demonize people to make headlines, and wealthy people are an easy target. You could pay 10 billion in taxes and if you earned 10.1 billion you are a "bad guy" for keeping 100 million out of your 10.1 billion.
Keith
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Tax credit (Green ACT)
- Thread starter sam2020
- Start date
Media has to demonize people to make headlines, and wealthy people are an easy target. You could pay 10 billion in taxes and if you earned 10.1 billion you are a "bad guy" for keeping 100 million out of your 10.1 billion.
Keith
If any billionaire in the country actually paid a tax rate that high I would consider them a hero, not a villain. They "could" pay that much, but they most definitely don't, as many paper billionaires like Musk and Bezos get the vast majority of their wealth from capital gains, and use tax loopholes to avoid paying almost any taxes, lowering their effective tax rate relative to their gains something in the realm of 1%.
TravelFree
Active Member
Yes, but it's not cool to repost lies that originated by the Anonymous vlogger who makes a practice of posting outrageous lies to get clicks. You should have stated Anonymous claims... .
There is an old wise saying- A rich person is one who has more than me and a poor person is one who has less than me.
I might modify that by saying some believe a tax cheater is one who uses more of the tax code to legally pay less taxes than me.
juliusa
Active Member
Another corollary is most everyone agrees the rich should pay more taxes. And your old wise saying identifies the rich.
TravelFree
Active Member
A tax loophole is a lawful method in the tax code to lower your effective taxes owed. The difference between what is OK and what some believe is wrong is whether you use them or you don't. If you look up the huge volume of tax laws, I challenge you to find anywhere in the code a section that lists: " Tax Loopholes" they don't exist because it is just you being jealous of others who make more and owe less. Jealous people are unhappy people. adjust your attitude and you will live longer.
Focus on tax fraud, not those who use the tax code the way it is written to pay what they lawfully owe.
FinalAsgard
Member
Why should we ever expect someone to pay 99% of their income to taxes, just because they make more than you? We earn our income, all of us. It isn't the governments to keep. Most of the world (as in > 50%) lives on $2 a day. So should we tax everyone so that they only keep $60 a month and the rest go to taxes, just because we make more than most of the world?
It's easy to look at those who make more than us and say that they don't need that money, send it to the government, but why? So the government can blow it and so you don't have to pay anything? The rich pay a ton in taxes already. They are also the ones who are employing dozens or even thousands of others, and who are taking on the risk of running businesses that serve customers and help employees bring home a pay check. Why should they be villains?
TravelFree
Active Member
I'll counter that with "my statistic" that says most people agree we all pay too much in taxes because the government just gives too much away to those who didn't earn it.Another corollary is most everyone agrees the rich should pay more taxes. And your old wise saying identifies the rich.
You are in the minority. Most Americans look at how much a wealthy person has, (or in this case keeps) with envy and anger rather than looking at how much they contribute, no mater how high the amount they pay is.
For example, if Bezos only pays 1% (last I heard it was closer to 10% but it depends on who you ask) on his earnings per year he is contributing more per year to the general fund than my Brother in law contributed in his entire lifetime. I would rather have wealthy evil Bezos in the world than my useless Bro-in-law.
Just my perspective.
Keith
Its not that they don't need that money, but them paying a higher percentage of their income is not going to impact them as much as someone with a lower amount of income. True they are the ones taking on the risks, but they also reap the awards. They provide jobs to people, but it could be argued they couldn't have been as successful without all those employees as well.
FinalAsgard
Member
Sure... but... what does that have to do with how much of their money that they should be allowed to keep?
It's really easy to spend other people's money, because we never see other people's money as important as we see our own money.
I don't expect them to. But they would be a hero if they were that generous. Using creative accounting to nearly completely avoid paying their fair share of income/gains makes them a bad citizen, even if it makes them a clever person. Regardless of your view on the government and its role, I think most people agree that if citizens are expected to pay their fair share (as determined by the govt tax rates) in a progressive graded taxation system like the US has, then the idea that the wealthiest individuals are using that wealth on hordes of accountants to artificially lower their tax burden to nearly nothing while average citizens simply pay their allotment (minus the standard deduction)is, while perfectly legal, not particularly moral.
I would prefer a much simpler tax code with less room for this sort of fudgery, like the Republicans favor. I also like Biden's idea of a minimum tax rate, which could be extended further. There is some merit to progressive suggestions of higher taxes on the wealthy as well. The only idea I absolutely hate and think is without merit is doing absolutely nothing at all.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I'm pretty comfortable saying that the only way a regressive tax system can exist in practice is if the uber-wealthy write the rules.
And once that happens, declarations that the uber wealthy who pay no to minimal taxes are OK so long as they follow the rules is not a persuasive argument.
And once that happens, declarations that the uber wealthy who pay no to minimal taxes are OK so long as they follow the rules is not a persuasive argument.
Legislation doesn't refer to loopholes, because a tax loophole is a tax break that isn't used as intended by law.A tax loophole is a lawful method in the tax code to lower your effective taxes owed. The difference between what is OK and what some believe is wrong is whether you use them or you don't. If you look up the huge volume of tax laws, I challenge you to find anywhere in the code a section that lists: " Tax Loopholes" they don't exist because it is just you being jealous of others who make more and owe less. Jealous people are unhappy people. adjust your attitude and you will live longer.
Focus on tax fraud, not those who use the tax code the way it is written to pay what they lawfully owe.
Taxation is hard to do well.
For example, multinational companies deliberately run unprofitable subsidiaries by overcharging the subsidiary so that the company can book the profit in tax havens or countries with low taxes.
It's obvious that the break is needed, it's obvious that it's being misused, but there isn't a solution to the problem yet.
FinalAsgard
Member
Giving more money than you have to to the government to abuse and misuse and blow, doesn't make one a hero. Instead look at how much they give to charities, and give to actually helping people. THAT, makes them a hero. Also... pretty sure they're paying more than their "fair" share, compared to the rest of us.
LOL quite disingenuous as Michael Moore owns 9 of those homes. I'm not sure your point as well. So people who are in power, have money and have a chance to help address income inequality shouldn't? Rather those who enrich themselves at the cost of everyone else gets people lining up to defend them with fervor.
FinalAsgard
Member
That pretty much sums up politicians
This talk of "loopholes" is also an unnecessary political debate in a forum about cars. Most discussion about "loopholes", personal and corporate income taxes, capital gains, and wealth (often the largest numbers are unrealized gains) are carried on with ignorance about how all of the tax code provisions work. AND, we do not tax wealth!. that is a slippery slope that we shouldn't go down, here.
OCJeff
Active Member
I just want to know when an EV Tax Credit/POS Rebate will be confirmed one way or the other. That's all.
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