Not until Tesla takes on the responsibility, no. When you use no-confirm NoA or Smart Summon, you are responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle 100% of the time. That’s not self driving in my book. It is Level 2
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Tesla autopilot HW3
- Thread starter verygreen
- Start date
Not until Tesla takes on the responsibility, no. When you use no-confirm NoA or Smart Summon, you are responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle 100% of the time. That’s not self driving in my book. It is Level 2
Sure, from a reliability aspect, I could see requiring observation implying it is not FSD. However, in terms of ability, is that conflating the functionality with the certification? Many other systems still have safety drivers/ observers in place. Realizing I was responding to:
Analogy warning: Is a student driver not driving because they need a licensed driver in the car?
Absolutely not, its a Level 2 ADAS system with the driver fully responsible. It doesn't matter if the driver is in the car or out the car. Which part of that don't you understand?
No just like Propilot 2.0 doing that isn't self driving either. How is it that you can't understand something so basic?
Propilot 2.0 does that.
Also cars like Supercruise also does something AP doesn't which is hands free driving and they ain't self driving either.
You can't just make up rules that suite your agenda. That same rules have to apply to everyone, not just conveniently to Tesla.
True, Teslas are self driving by that regard. But Waymo is still way ahead of Tesla because they have actually crossed the threshold into driverless robotaxis and are carrying passengers with no safety drivers on public streets today. Tesla having more cars on the road with a very limited capability doesn’t mean they are ahead in the self driving world. Quantity doesn’t beat quality.
Nor did I say it did. What I listed were the domains where Tesla has the most vehicles (one definition of leading).
Is Waymo already driverless? This article from three days ago states they are not yet.
Waymo tells riders to get ready for fully driverless rides
None of those domains have anything to do with self driving nor is Tesla autonomous in those domains so therefore irrelevant.
You refuse to apply logic and reason to any of your systems. Which is typical.
Supercruise and propilot 2 (especially) and DA pro are also years ahead of Waymo!
WhatvI don't get is your differentiation of vehicle feature/ functionality based on one if statement. If the car were not checking for the dead man switch, would it be FSD? If it were not checking for wheel torque, would it be FSD? The high level gating function does not negate the algorithm's ability.
I'm not making up rules, nor do I have an agenda. If you want to ignore/ discount the realms where Tesla has the most cars performing a specific function (which requires autonomous code) due to the oversight requirement, that is up to you. If you want to discount it due to error rate, that would be understandable.
However, if we were making up rules, I'd say Supercruise is not in play due to requiring high precision mapping.
So therefore every other company does not and CANNOT have a self driving car and are not in play because they also use HD maps.
Tesla fans always deliver with those well thought-out logic.
If supercriuse, propilot 2, da pro, etc were not checking for the dead man switch, would it be FSD? If it were not checking for wheel torque, would it be FSD? (aka attention). would it be FSD? The high level gating function does not negate the algorithm's ability.
If you want to ignore/ discount the realms where GM, NISSAN and BMW has the most cars performing a specific function (which requires autonomous code) due to the oversight requirement, that is up to you. If you want to discount it due to error rate, that would be understandable.
To the non-Tesla point. I hope you realize Supercruise relies on Lidar mapping, not just GPS map data.
Cadillac to Increase Super Cruise Compatible Highway Network
Whereas Tesla can drive in unmapped areas like race tracks and dirt roads.
Tesla's Autopilot Continues To Improve, Even Performing Well On Dirt Roads | CleanTechnica
Here’s what I have trouble reconciling: You call yourself an optimist. Yet the only way to read your interpretation on Tesla and its CEO is that the latter is a charlatan — not a reliable source — a liar, something of that nature, everyone perhaps has a different word for it. That Tesla is trying to eat their cake and have it too. Post one thing online while their CEO — the CEO of a publicly traded company — spouts something else.
That is not very optimistic. That is terrible. I’m probably more optimistic than you because I keep an open mind that Tesla will indeed be Level 5 no geofence feature complete around the end of the year (or a reasonable delay like a month or two).
But I must admit your pessimism is inviting.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
My optimism is that despite set backs or delays, I still hope that Autopilot features will get better and that Tesla will eventually get to autonomous driving some day.
If you are being serious, then you are more optimistic than me on this issue. I expect we will get something by Dec 2019, maybe traffic light response, but I don't expect the full "L5 no geofence feature complete" by the end of this year. Considering that Early Access is not testing traffic light response or Automatic City Driving yet, and also considering that Elon is saying that it is still "a few months" away (and we know his poor track record), I think "L5 no geofence feature complete" by Dec 2019 is highly unlikely. I would love to be wrong. I would love for Tesla to surprise us in Dec or Jan and say "here is L5 feature complete"! But I just prefer to air on the side of caution and not get my hopes up.
3Victoria
Active Member
The big picture is that progress is being made. Predicting timing is always problematic in developing new tech. Elon is optimistic, guessing progress if no unknown problems appear. In software, at least, it was always: make your best estimate, and triple it. FSD is software using bleeding edge techniques (dNN) and hardware (HW3). I see lots of semantic arguments here, which aren't useful.
The problem is not if they miss a prediction. The problem is if they misrepresent things.
If Tesla in reality is nowhere near ”Level 5 no geofence” feature complete at end of 2019, their CEO would have done more than missed a prediction.
Oh I get it, you believe Tesla’s CEO is not telling the truth.
I still have an open mind but I admit we are getting close to the wire.
So I really put a thought in what you said and this time I am not going to believe charlatan but Tesla website. Can't wait for end of this year
Actually the website mentions Automatic city driving coming out this year, not end of this year, so it could come out sooner according to Tesla.
S100D
Member
I could not read your attachment but I believe that Tesla said that AP2 would have all of the features of AP1 by the end of 2016. We are still waiting for being able to read speed limit signs.
I know that AP1 and AP2 are using different technology but we have been waiting 3 years for features that are still not delivered.
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