Tesla coercing software updates!?!

[DaveBC]

I had the message on my screen on Tuesday Feb 11. I am on 2019.32.2.1 and have not updated because I don’t want to lose the half screen web browser. The browser that rarely works without first rebooting the MCU.

Edit: Sorry for the sideways photo. iPhone rotation doesn't seem to translate.

 

[docdeb27]

For those of you who refuse to do updates, if something fails on your car and you get into an accident will you then decide to Sue Tesla despite the fix for that having been in one of the updates?

 

[DaveBC]

For those of you who refuse to do updates, if something fails on your car and you get into an accident will you then decide to Sue Tesla despite the fix for that having been in one of the updates?

Um, no. Why would you imagine such a scenario?

 

[docdeb27]

Um, no. Why would you imagine such a scenario?

Really?

 

[Regulator]

I certainly have an aversion to being the "first" to upgrade, but after a few days/weeks, I always go for it.

What some people are forgetting is what if Tesla found out that a hacker could access your car and do all kinds of wacky stuff. Would you not let Tesla update your firmware to stop the hackers?

Same for Windows or MacOS software - "Patches? Stinkin' patches. We don't need no patches."

 

[HankLloydRight]

I've been a 'FW Refusenik' for several years now. Sure, there are new features added each time, but overall, the software, and especially the UI gets worse and worse and worse. 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 9, and 9 to 10 -- each time the UI suffered. And not in little nit-picky ways, but serious "WTAF were they thinking?" ways. Serious safety critical ways.

So I still put it off for as long as humanely possible. And then since they forced an update on me last year, damn, that's the last time I'll ever update the FW myself. If they want to get rid of old FW on my car, they'll have to force it on me (again).

That's what's so confusing about this message (I too got it a few days ago). They pretend they're asking nicely for YOU to update the FW, but we all know the threat of 'no access' is entirely empty, because come April 30th, I'll bet that Tesla forces the new update on anyone else holding out (me included). If for some reason I actually lose connectivity, I'll go into the SC and get the latest update there. But I think it's all empty threats, honestly and they just want people to update to a more current version. I don't think they'll actually turn off the VPN on May 1st.

A couple of years ago, a Tesla employee (or may have been an ex-employee) told me that there's one guy at Tesla who keeps track of every single car and the FW installed. And he told me that it really grinds this guy's gears when people won't update. Too bad, Sam.

 

[whitex]

Could be something as simple as a certificate expiration for the VPN tunnel the car opens back to the mothership.

Makes sense to me. Tesla certainly isn't obligated to maintain backward compatibility with months/years old versions because an owner refuses to update.

Cert change they could just force install - the ability we know they have, as they used it in the past to install updates without user consent, or when they disabled AP in countries where it was banned. Updating certs nobody (but a few hackers) would even notice.

This sounds like a larger change in cloud connectivity protocol(s). Unfortunately Tesla's are a cloud connected product, meaning they require the cloud to fully function, so updates are inevitable. It could be worse, they could just discontinue support for old HW like MCU1, and then the cloud enabled product becomes crippled. I suspect they will probably do that no later than 2026 btw (last MCU1 car covered by ESA loses coverage in 3/2026) because sustaining a cloud product on hardware with a lifecycle as long as cars (15+ years) is very expensive - the only products I know like that have VERY expensive annual support contracts. If there were a lot more MCU1 cars out there (i.e. millions), a 3rd party alternative might have showed up, but with only 150K of them it's not worth reverse engineering and designing a swap-in alternative.

 

[whitex]

That's what's so confusing about this message (I too got it a few days ago). They pretend they're asking nicely for YOU to update the FW, but we all know the threat of 'no access' is entirely empty, because come April 30th, I'll bet that Tesla forces the new update on anyone else holding out (me included). If for some reason I actually lose connectivity, I'll go into the SC and get the latest update there. But I think it's all empty threats, honestly and they just want people to update to a more current version. I don't think they'll actually turn off the VPN on May 1st.

Maybe not right on May1st, but I seriously doubt it's an empty threat. Elon's laser focus on profitability will make sure this will go down swiftly as it will deduce their maintenance costs to not have to support new and old cloud services.

My guess, your car will lose all connected services some time in May, except for the ability to upgrade the firmware. They will then stage a new update to all cars (download without installing), force update your certs to make sure they're good for the next decade or two, maybe force configure your VPN to make sure they only attempt to connect few times a day (to reduce connection attempts traffic), then either shut down the old infrastructure completely or (more likely) dwindle it down to one ghost server some time later this year (say September?). That server will be shared by all "refusnik's" so incredibly slow to use, but that is not a problem as they will disable all services on it other than emergency updates in case Tesla need it, and maybe some stats reporting.

PS> I got the same screen warning this week too.

 

[Spacep0d]

I honestly see both sides of this; as a way to control software updates and not have lots of disparate versions out there (especially if there are upgraded dependencies for future upgrades), and especially if Tesla needs to fix a different bug that causes Tesla some liability issues. If the Tesla customer refuses to update for reason X but feature Y desperately needs a patch, then I see Tesla's side here.

From our own peculiar POV, I understand what a specific owner does not want to knowingly wade in to new software which he or she fears will reduce range or some other feature. It's a pragmatic move by the customer, but not the greatest thing for Tesla when it comes to software management.

One way Tesla could handle this is to make it mandatory (don't ask) and then fix bugs ASAP. These bugs are not just some video, they're cars we drive and rely upon. They just need to be on top of their game with the software and use good judgement when it comes to changing features which customers may not want or understand. If there's a change in charge-rate or range, Tesla should lead with information here and explain it, or perhaps make some of these 'features' optional (but update everything else). This way, a customer doesn't reject an entire update but for one perceived loss of feature.

 

[aerodyne]

" am currently on 2019.32.12.8, which Tesla put on the car (again without my authorization)"

That sucks, I thought I was the very last one on that version, at least per Teslafi.

All I can say is I updated last week and have had no problems, except Regen is reduced below 65 deg, used to be 60 deg.

I did not have any other problems, and the new voice commands are a lot better, text works well too.

 

[HankLloydRight]

That sucks, I thought I was the very last one on that version, at least per Teslafi.

Ha! I'm still on 2019.32.2.2 which is FW Version 9! LOL

Last update: Sept/2019.

 

[aerodyne]

Ha! I'm still on 2019.32.2.2 which is FW Version 9! LOL

Last update: Sept/2019.

And how do you avoid bring detected by the Mother Ship, apart from not posting on the other forum? Perhaps you have rooted your car...

 

[HankLloydRight]

And how do you avoid bring detected by the Mother Ship, apart from not posting on the other forum? Perhaps you have rooted your car...

I don't connect via wi-fi. I get occasional nastygram popups telling me how to connect to a wifi hotspot. LOL. I just reject the update notices when they appear. I have not rooted my car. I'm sure they already know who I am. When they forced 2019.32.2.2 on me without permission, they downloaded it over 3G/LTE.

 

[aerodyne]

I suspect you are not very popular at Tesla...keep on being a thorn in their side!

 

[aTri]

I hope you're still using outdated software on your phone, and of course WindowsXP on your Business Computer. You wouldn't want to protect anything important if it costs a little more in electricity!

 

[aerodyne]

I hope you're still using outdated software on your phone, and of course WindowsXP on your Business Computer. You wouldn't want to protect anything important if it costs a little more in electricity!

Actually, my Dell laptop circa 2002 with XP works fine except for some sites won't load. Office is more reliable than what I have on my 2018 Dell.

 

[ElSupreme]

They wrote that you _might_ not receive it.

They will stop testing any Internet services they provide against older software versions, which means that any updates to their server software and configuration might mean the services no longer work with the older software.

As far as they are concerned they aren't removing support, since you will still be able to upgrade your software.

When I paid for my car, in 2012, the car came with those features. I'd expect those features to last for well over 7 years. Cars often last 20 or more years.

Tesla is taking away something the sold me.

 

[ElSupreme]

I honestly see both sides of this; as a way to control software updates and not have lots of disparate versions out there (especially if there are upgraded dependencies for future upgrades), and especially if Tesla needs to fix a different bug that causes Tesla some liability issues. If the Tesla customer refuses to update for reason X but feature Y desperately needs a patch, then I see Tesla's side here.

 

[ElSupreme]

That is Tesla's problem. Not mine. Tesla sold me this in 2012. I paid $9X,000 for it. They should maintain legacy systems to provide me what I paid for or offer to buy my car back.

 

[PagodaY]

I see some parallels with this and the larger direction of the software industry. Microsoft now sells a subscription to their office package, but they don't cut you off from the program, just the updates. They're not taking away any functionality

Quicken on the other hand, will be discontinuing the software's ability to download quotes and transactions in April. You must buy a new subscription. This is more like Tesla's approach is seems. The program will still work, but some functions will be disabled.

Sounds like the lawyers will make some good money sorting out the new paradigm shift in hardware and software overlaps.