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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?
- Thread starter hnguy054
- Start date
saltsman
Member
The F-150 Lighting is made in Dearborn, Michigan but I thought the Mach-E was made in Cuautitlán, Mexico so I don't think it would qualify would it?
Sorry, I'm confused.. I get the after May 24, 2021 as a 7500 non refundable tax credit.. but what do you mean yb "and on Jan 1, 2022 as a refundable tax credit"
As the bill is written, if the car is purchased after May 24th you need to owe at least $7,500 in federal taxes to qualify for the full tax credit of $7,500 for an EV less than $80,000. Starting in 2022, if you purchase the EV next year, even if you owe $0 in federal taxes, you still qualify for the full tax credit.
That is just for the $7,500 portion. The additional $2,500 for American made and additional $2,500 for union made doesn’t go into affect until 2022.
TravelFree
Active Member
I have zero confidence the latest EV tax credit will pass as written. Even if it is signed into law, I can see Tesla lawyers wanting to sue to strike the part about encouraging Union membership required for a tax credit as it violates the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, section 1. The government may argue that they are not affected by this discrimination because the equal protection clause only applies to state's laws. However there is case precedent that the Amendment use of the word state also applies to Federal Government discrimination. The Federal Government may enact tax benefits to 501c3 but not one one specific 501c3. The UAW is a 501c5 tax exempt organization.
In my opinion, Tesla should not be discriminated against because it's workers do not vote for Union representation. The reason why this was put into the latest Democrat proposal is because of the administration's dislike of Elon Musk and his support of the previous administration.
The only reason why anyone in this Pro-Tesla forum would support the discrimination against Tesla and favor GM and Ford is because they also want to see Tesla be at a disadvantage.
Ford is not going to do that just to get an additional tax credit for it's customers. Besides, moving MME production to the US and made by UAW scale would raise the price significantly. Final assembly, would not qualify because of the 50% MIA requirement.
People should buy the car they want or need based on the merits of the car and not be based on a one shot tax credit.
Currently, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and BMW's EV & PHEV can have a $7500 tax credit. Only Tesla and GM don't.
Federal Tax Credits for Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Cars
I don't know where is Toyota, Honda, Ford, and BMW's final assembly factory. If the clean energy for America act 2021 passed, Toyota, Honda, Ford, and BMW EV & PHEV could still have a $7500 tax credit. With some conditions, they may have an additional $2500 or $5000 tax credit. With the new clean energy act 2021, Tesla has only $7500.
This is my point. $7500 > $5000 or $2500
Tesla has to compete with all the vehicle companies. Without the new clean energy act 2021, Tesla will have a $7500 less tax credit than other companies. With that, Tesla will have a $0 ~ $5000 less tax credit. So, Tesla is benefited by this new clean energy act 2021. I don't see a reason that Tesla goes to sue the government.
In fact, Ford should be against the new clean energy act 2021, not Tesl.
TravelFree
Active Member
I've made this point before but worth repeating:
If you buy a new EV for the reason to get a tax credit then you are buying for the wrong reason. You should be buying an EV based on what the EV offers in specs and features. As long as Tesla is ahead of the game in bang for the buck, the lack of a tax credit should not be a detriment. * The one exception I see is the Cybertruck. The main market for Pickup Trucks are not excited about the shape of the Cybertruck. It seems only the off roaders and gamer types are eager for this design. Therefore I feel the F-150 and Rivian will be the winners in that market.
Toyota and Honda have assembly plants in the Eastern US. Not sure about that 50% rule.
* Would you give up 100 miles of range, better performance, and more reliable fast charging and better GPS UI just to get a tax credit? These are the reasons I decided against the ID4 for my wife.
If you buy a new EV for the reason to get a tax credit then you are buying for the wrong reason. You should be buying an EV based on what the EV offers in specs and features. As long as Tesla is ahead of the game in bang for the buck, the lack of a tax credit should not be a detriment. * The one exception I see is the Cybertruck. The main market for Pickup Trucks are not excited about the shape of the Cybertruck. It seems only the off roaders and gamer types are eager for this design. Therefore I feel the F-150 and Rivian will be the winners in that market.
Toyota and Honda have assembly plants in the Eastern US. Not sure about that 50% rule.
* Would you give up 100 miles of range, better performance, and more reliable fast charging and better GPS UI just to get a tax credit? These are the reasons I decided against the ID4 for my wife.
I agree with what you are stating, but I think the thing for a lot of people is if they can barely afford the Tesla, then there is some anxiety on if they should wait or not for a tax credit/POS rebate to become effective. I'd love the tax credit as much as the next guy/gal, so I'm hoping the "after May 24th" language sticks and gets approved. But clearly I haven't canceled my Wednesday-of-this-week delivery yet because of nothing being set in stone. I'm hopeful, but also grateful I can afford without needing the tax credit.
Biggest piece of advice: Put in an order now and obtain current prices. Place hold until 2022. There was another $500 increase on the MY last week! I've already "saved" $2,500 in price increases (let's call it $2,700 with my 8% sales tax too) by ordering in early April. If nothing gets passed by then and you still cannot afford the Tesla, you'll lose the $100, but save thousands on a different EV that can hopefully still suit your needs.
I don't think this administration put the extra union rebate in because they dislike Musk. I think they did it because union members have generally been strong supporters of the Democrats and Biden is trying to shore up their support. With that being said, I don't support the added union rebate, as I see it as naked pandering for votes. I do, however, support the extra rebate for vehicles built in the US, as that might help generate jobs for all Americans, regardless of political persuasion.
I think each person can decide for themselves whether buying a Tesla is worth it to them or not. Like it or not, pricing, incentives, tax credits, and rebates can be significant factors in the purchase decision and determining value. What may seem the "wrong reason" to you can be precisely the right reason for someone else.
I think that when most people are looking to buy a product, they evaluate and compare the perceived values of the options they are considering. They consider what their money is buying them. The absence or presence of a rebate impacts the relative costs of the options and thus changes the calculus. Why should an EV purchase be any different from any other purchase? Wealthy people can just buy whatever they like, but most people have to factor in the cost of something when making a decision.
Also, there ARE people who would give up range, acceleration, and reliable fast charging for a lower price, a better ride, physical buttons, perceived superior styling, better build quality, a more extensive service network, or any number of other reasons. Tesla still has advantages in many areas, but there is now competition out there, and that competition does do some things better as well. Buyers all have different needs, and there are plenty of perfectly rational reasons for buyers to conclude that a non-Tesla meets their needs better.
I have an order in for a Tesla, but I wouldn't question someone who got a Mach-E or an ID.4 instead. Those are also good vehicles with their own pros and cons.
I don't make decisions for my wife (YMMV - Your Marriage May Vary) but she is seriously contemplating the Model Y vs ID.4 decision as her daily driver. She is concerned with the same variables you listed, and then some. In short, it's not about just the tax credit, it's a lot of factors and a lot of money at stake. As a family that doesn't cycle through cars every 3 years, we put in the time to research and test drive.
Range: it does not seem like a 100 mile range delta between Model Y and ID.4 based on real world testing (closer to 30 miles), but nonetheless, Model Y is slightly more efficient
Performance: Model Y has, objectively, *far* superior acceleration, but ID.4 has better (subjective) steering feel. Neither of us care about top speed
DCFC: Tesla has a more streamlined experience and larger network, but EA is expanding at a faster rate and charging fault frequency no longer a concern
GPS UI: Tesla sw is better overall, using the current versions of both cars' sw. No question about it. I don't trust promises of future OTA improvements from any manufacturer, so just basing on current state
A few additional features of the ID.4: massaging seats, power sunshade, free 3 years of DCFC (I value that at around $1k), $10k price savings, and adjustable passenger lumbar (we care about this since we actually travel together, I understand the solo travelers among us don't care)
A couple other features of the Model Y: charge port location is more convenient, frunk for the occasional need
TravelFree
Active Member
The only real bargain is the ID4. I know one guy who bought the ID4 over the Tesla because he didn't need the range and had no intention of needing EA even though he got 3 years of free EA charging. I recall 20 miles a day driving. Had the ID4 been out when I bought the Leaf, I would have gone for the ID4 in those years it would have been a better car for our needs. We liked the style of the ID4 better than the M Y but the range and a few other limitations, it failed.
I replaced my Nissan Leaf with the M Y because we did plan on using it for 100 mile daily range and the Leaf was needing charging every day just to get home. The only charger on the way became too busy. The other one EA was always out of service. My wife was really getting frustrated waiting a half hour for the charger to make it home so our timing was now.
Many years of buying expensive stuff like cars and houses, I know the joy of buying with a discount where I sacrifice desired features is soon gone after the purchase, but the joy of getting features you really want lasts the life of the car. Prioritize your wish list putting the tax credits at the bottom of that list. Maybe you don't even need a new car if what you want is out of reach.
BTW the MME is about the same price as the Tesla M Y unless you sacrifice.
We've been without gassers for over two years now and don't miss those at all.
BTW- many of those real world tests on range are done at legal speed limit + but we base our range on our driving average. She has 1100 miles on the M Y now and the total comes to 221 wh/mile. Why? because her driving is non interstate and lots of traffic lights so regenerative braking is a key advantage. Soon we will have a new 12 station V3 Supercharger 1.5 miles from our house so with Referral's and free fast charging the choice for us was clearly the M Y.
I replaced my Nissan Leaf with the M Y because we did plan on using it for 100 mile daily range and the Leaf was needing charging every day just to get home. The only charger on the way became too busy. The other one EA was always out of service. My wife was really getting frustrated waiting a half hour for the charger to make it home so our timing was now.
Many years of buying expensive stuff like cars and houses, I know the joy of buying with a discount where I sacrifice desired features is soon gone after the purchase, but the joy of getting features you really want lasts the life of the car. Prioritize your wish list putting the tax credits at the bottom of that list. Maybe you don't even need a new car if what you want is out of reach.
BTW the MME is about the same price as the Tesla M Y unless you sacrifice.
We've been without gassers for over two years now and don't miss those at all.
BTW- many of those real world tests on range are done at legal speed limit + but we base our range on our driving average. She has 1100 miles on the M Y now and the total comes to 221 wh/mile. Why? because her driving is non interstate and lots of traffic lights so regenerative braking is a key advantage. Soon we will have a new 12 station V3 Supercharger 1.5 miles from our house so with Referral's and free fast charging the choice for us was clearly the M Y.
TravelFree
Active Member
Another thought I had when reading these comments from people choosing to buy something other than the Tesla is why are they posting here? I briefly read the forums for the MME and ID4 as those were on my short list, but never posted. Didn't need to as I made my decision based on the merits of the cars for our needs and wants and Tesla was the clear winner.
I also was a former VW Sciroco owner years ago and my first car was a '66 Mustang so those two are not strangers.
Maybe those buyers are just looking for a reason to reject the other brands, or as in this thread they really are willing to sacrifice for that tax credit. I just know that if I put that tax credit at the top of my priority list, I would not be happy the day after I took delivery.
I also was a former VW Sciroco owner years ago and my first car was a '66 Mustang so those two are not strangers.
Maybe those buyers are just looking for a reason to reject the other brands, or as in this thread they really are willing to sacrifice for that tax credit. I just know that if I put that tax credit at the top of my priority list, I would not be happy the day after I took delivery.
if this held yes, I am not holding my breath though, these things seem to change a lot
For sure, We have our tesla already, but I do think the base ID4 with the discount is actually pretty good value. Id take that over a tiguan, cx5 or rav4
I’m assuming you are asking for a M3 or MY. If it passes and it’s a big if, you buy a Tesla below $80,000 and after May 24th and you have enough federal tax liability, then yes.
Order date means nothing. I don’t think it would be final payment date, as I was under the impression it would be on delivery date which normally one in the same. But I don’t intend to pay them anything until I accept the car.
Latest version of the proposal changed the effective time "for vehicles acquired after December 31, 2021", see page 8:
Even so, I do not see any meaningful possibility that this bill can be passed without another round of significant overhaul. So if you want a Tesla, buy it now, do not wait.
Even so, I do not see any meaningful possibility that this bill can be passed without another round of significant overhaul. So if you want a Tesla, buy it now, do not wait.
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