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Tesla goes bankrupt, or desides to go HP or Samsung... what happens to my car?
- Thread starter bcsteeve
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- musings Tesla Inc.
If Tesla fails utterly and share price drops to $25. I can't see Apple not digging under its couch to buy it all and keep a couple hundred thousand cars running.
If Intel paid 15 billion for Mobileeye, how much is Tesla's automation unit alone worth?
If Intel paid 15 billion for Mobileeye, how much is Tesla's automation unit alone worth?
you can short it at your own risk, tesla like many other tech type stocks seem to ignore the basics and despite not showing profits seem to increase in value.
this is beyond my old school thinking so I just stay away from stocks like this.
+1
Is Tesla a financial high wire act? Sure? Could Tesla overreach and get into a cash crunch? Absolutely. But there's too much value in the technology demonstrated to date for Tesla to go the way of DeLorean, Tucker, etc. Apple, Google or a car company will snap up Tesla if the price is low enough.
shrspeedblade
Rideshare Monkey
I wonder when Amazon is going to go under, because they too were "unprofitable" for an awful long time.
Except for now, where they're making so much money they can't "hide" it with spending and reinvesting in the company.
(Do your own internet search, I'm moving to the next thread!)
Except for now, where they're making so much money they can't "hide" it with spending and reinvesting in the company.
(Do your own internet search, I'm moving to the next thread!)
if tsla goes to zero due to execution failure, will it even be able to sell patents to apple or whoever? are the assets encumbered by the creditors? apple may not be able to buy even it they wanted to.
You quoted something I deleted seconds after posting. Actually, I never posted that. Or at least I didn't mean to. I started to write that, but realized I wasn't making the point I was trying to make, and I never hit "post". Then when I DID post the next thing I wrote, the first bit was inadvertently still there.
So yeah, sure "wow"... but that was just an incomplete, not well thought out attempt at humor that I never intended to post.
Apple can buy all of Tesla, all of Netflix and possibly all of Disney and increase its dividend if it felt like it.
Except for it seems one other person, it flies over investors heads that if mobileeye automation unit is worth 15 billion what is all of Tesla combined worth?
If Apple was willing to buy Dr Dre for 3 billion dollars, surely Musk is worth some higher multiple of that.
Laughing at the person wondering if tesla should be shorted. Smartest position is probably no position. Hide in brk.b, appl, or the financials with Dodd frank repeal but man don't short Tesla. One tweet could end you instantly. Agreement for 4 gigafactory in china or some MOAB like that on Shortville.
Except for it seems one other person, it flies over investors heads that if mobileeye automation unit is worth 15 billion what is all of Tesla combined worth?
If Apple was willing to buy Dr Dre for 3 billion dollars, surely Musk is worth some higher multiple of that.
Laughing at the person wondering if tesla should be shorted. Smartest position is probably no position. Hide in brk.b, appl, or the financials with Dodd frank repeal but man don't short Tesla. One tweet could end you instantly. Agreement for 4 gigafactory in china or some MOAB like that on Shortville.
Great! If you could CONVENIENTLY post a link to get me started reading about that, I'd appreciate it. I say "convenient", because I'm sure I can look it up if it is too much trouble.
Totally missed the point of this topic. The whole point is that Tesla isn't just a "car company". Those others are (well some. Others are just brands)
No, absolutely nothing known. This was purely theoretical. I personally do not believe Tesla is anywhere near going bankrupt. I don't wish that, I don't think that, I don't even see it as anything other than a tiny remote possibility.
That has happened to me before as well. The forum software saves what you type even if you never post it, and then if you go to post in that thread later sometimes what you typed before (sometimes days before) shows up in the new post. It seems like a bug.
Actually, I can't because these were in-person conversations and demonstrations. The hacking presentation given at last year's TMC Connect was very interesting in this regard.
Ah, ad hominem. How unexpected. No actual argument then?
It's simple:
If you could buy a stock which returned 20% per annum in dividends would you? Sensible people would.
Would you consider it 'losing money'? Sensible people would not.
Would you take those dividends and use them to buy more of that stock? Sensible people would.
Would you consider that 'losing money'? Sensible people would not.
Would you think about borrowing money at 3% in order to buy more? Sensible people would.
Would you consider that 'losing money'? Sensible people would not.
That is what Tesla is doing. You are confusing Tesla profiting from their investments with Tesla passing that profit off to its shareholders (and thus them profiting from their investments).
Thank you kindly.
cpa
Active Member
IANAL.
There are generally two types of bankruptcy. Voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary is where the company on its own initiative files for bankruptcy protection from its creditors and reorganizes under a plan overseen by the bankruptcy court. During this period creditors cannot do anything to foreclose on assets or anything else to prevent the company from continuing operations. Generally, voluntary bankruptcy will have the effect of rewriting loan agreements, interest rates, principal reductions, and some asset sales or lease-backs to the satisfaction of the court. If Tesla were to file for voluntary bankruptcy, one would believe that some debt would be forgiven by creditors, perhaps Elon Musk would contribute some cash as a loan subordinate to any existing and future debt, Tesla would sell off some of its real estate and perhaps lease back under very favorable terms, and maybe even take on a partner with a strong financial condition in a segment of its operations (like the Gigafactory could easily be spun off to relieve a boatload of debt and ongoing operational expenses.)
Involuntary bankruptcy is when a company's creditors force the company into bankruptcy. This is usually not a good thing. A company's assets are valued at fair market and then are liquidated to pay creditors. (Some creditors are secured, while many more are unsecured.) There is a specific ranking order in the law that determines who gets how much to satisfy the debt owed. Under the court's supervision these asset sales and debt repayments occur. Frequently unsecured creditors get pennies (if anything) on the dollar.
In this hypothetical situation, Tesla has many valuable assets whose tangible values (like real estate, machinery and equipment) can be determined, and there would likely be many interested companies out there who would wish to snap up the real estate or manufacturing equipment for their own uses. The unknown for Tesla would be its intangible assets, from software development to its patents and battery technologies. It is within the realm of possibility that another tech firm, perhaps in partnership with an ICE manufacturer would see enormous value in Tesla's intangible assets and buy them in bankruptcy. In this case, I would posit that while the Tesla brand name might not survive, the technology would. I would further posit that current owners like us would still be able to have our cars serviced and repaired. Supercharging might change--it might be eliminated or become a fee-based model for all, regardless of "free for life." Continued software upgrades might fall victim to this putative bankruptcy, with only the new vehicles manufactured after emerging from bankruptcy being able to have this function.
If this were to occur, say, in 2019, there would be over 400,000 Teslas of various types (Roadster, S, X, 3) on the road. That is a large enough base to interest companies to buy Tesla's intangible assets, in my opinion.
Again, IANAL.
There are generally two types of bankruptcy. Voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary is where the company on its own initiative files for bankruptcy protection from its creditors and reorganizes under a plan overseen by the bankruptcy court. During this period creditors cannot do anything to foreclose on assets or anything else to prevent the company from continuing operations. Generally, voluntary bankruptcy will have the effect of rewriting loan agreements, interest rates, principal reductions, and some asset sales or lease-backs to the satisfaction of the court. If Tesla were to file for voluntary bankruptcy, one would believe that some debt would be forgiven by creditors, perhaps Elon Musk would contribute some cash as a loan subordinate to any existing and future debt, Tesla would sell off some of its real estate and perhaps lease back under very favorable terms, and maybe even take on a partner with a strong financial condition in a segment of its operations (like the Gigafactory could easily be spun off to relieve a boatload of debt and ongoing operational expenses.)
Involuntary bankruptcy is when a company's creditors force the company into bankruptcy. This is usually not a good thing. A company's assets are valued at fair market and then are liquidated to pay creditors. (Some creditors are secured, while many more are unsecured.) There is a specific ranking order in the law that determines who gets how much to satisfy the debt owed. Under the court's supervision these asset sales and debt repayments occur. Frequently unsecured creditors get pennies (if anything) on the dollar.
In this hypothetical situation, Tesla has many valuable assets whose tangible values (like real estate, machinery and equipment) can be determined, and there would likely be many interested companies out there who would wish to snap up the real estate or manufacturing equipment for their own uses. The unknown for Tesla would be its intangible assets, from software development to its patents and battery technologies. It is within the realm of possibility that another tech firm, perhaps in partnership with an ICE manufacturer would see enormous value in Tesla's intangible assets and buy them in bankruptcy. In this case, I would posit that while the Tesla brand name might not survive, the technology would. I would further posit that current owners like us would still be able to have our cars serviced and repaired. Supercharging might change--it might be eliminated or become a fee-based model for all, regardless of "free for life." Continued software upgrades might fall victim to this putative bankruptcy, with only the new vehicles manufactured after emerging from bankruptcy being able to have this function.
If this were to occur, say, in 2019, there would be over 400,000 Teslas of various types (Roadster, S, X, 3) on the road. That is a large enough base to interest companies to buy Tesla's intangible assets, in my opinion.
Again, IANAL.
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