Tesla increases the price of the Powerwall as demand greatly outpaces production

[Jays200]

No.

My "Tesla Energy Specialist" called with exactly that offer, then called the next day to retract it.
I'm waiting for the new Gateway 2, three phase gateway, though.

 

[Zorg]

So I called Tesla and was told that my order is grandfathered in the old price. We shall see.

 

[Zorg]

Well, my number was selected for a quick install a couple days ago. I asked whether I was grandfathered in old price and apparently I needed to be in contract pre price increase. So I declined and ask for my refund. Now I will wait for the enphase offering next year.

 

[SongjinDK]

I too couldn't figure out why I may need Powerwalls. I am in SF Bay Area with solar and 2 EVs. I am on PG&E EVA rate, so I sent solar generated power to PG&E during peak hours at $0.48/kwh and charge EVs at night at $0.12/kwh. I have always had credit left at true up.

In my situation, I am wondering how Powerwalls may help. The only thing I can think of is for power outage, but it is very rare (I haven't seen it for a few years) and I can live without power for a few hours or even a couple of days. If I really need power, I could use a 2.5kw power inverter to connect to either my MX 100D or RAV4 EV (with 40kwh Tesla battery) DC to DC converter (12V battery posts) and power my house for weeks (for lighting, refrigerator, computers and home entertainment systems, etc. except for AC).

If I do need more power in the future, I could add more solar panels, would that be more helpful than investing in powerwalls? Did I miss anything?

 

[mspohr]

I too couldn't figure out why I may need Powerwalls. I am in SF Bay Area with solar and 2 EVs. I am on PG&E EVA rate, so I sent solar generated power to PG&E during peak hours at $0.48/kwh and charge EVs at night at $0.12/kwh. I have always had credit left at true up.

In my situation, I am wondering how Powerwalls may help. The only thing I can think of is for power outage, but it is very rare (I haven't seen it for a few years) and I can live without power for a few hours or even a couple of days. If I really need power, I could use a 2.5kw power inverter to connect to either my MX 100D or RAV4 EV (with 40kwh Tesla battery) DC to DC converter (12V battery posts) and power my house for weeks (for lighting, refrigerator, computers and home entertainment systems, etc. except for AC).

If I do need more power in the future, I could add more solar panels, would that be more helpful than investing in powerwalls? Did I miss anything?

Since you get 0.48 credit during peak and can charge at 0.12 at night, you have a good opportunity for arbitrage. Probably most of your solar is during peak but peak in many places goes to 7 or 9 at night when you aren't generating solar. A Powerwall could soak up power at night or in the morning off peak or shoulder and feed it back into the grid in the evening peak.
However, if you usually have a credit at true-up, then it may not be worth your while to have more credit.

 

[SongjinDK]

Since you get 0.48 credit during peak and can charge at 0.12 at night, you have a good opportunity for arbitrage. Probably most of your solar is during peak but peak in many places goes to 7 or 9 at night when you aren't generating solar. A Powerwall could soak up power at night or in the morning off peak or shoulder and feed it back into the grid in the evening peak.
However, if you usually have a credit at true-up, then it may not be worth your while to have more credit.

I thought you have to charge Powerwalls with solar to get rebate, so we can only shift from partial peak to peak which may not be much, given you are allowed to send power from Powerball to grid (can you?).

With the same money, it may be more cost effective to invest more solar panels than Powerwalls.

 

[cwied]

One note on excess credits: My local CCA (Peninsula Clean Energy) actually refunds credit balances over $100 each April. This is only on the generation portion, not on the transmission portion, but that would actually give a small incentive to have Powerwalls even if you don't generally have a balance at true-up time.

 

[SongjinDK]

PE&E doesn't refund, can't carry over either. It's OK to generate more energy to help others but Powerwalls don't generate energy.

 

[Zorg]

I too couldn't figure out why I may need Powerwalls. I am in SF Bay Area with solar and 2 EVs. I am on PG&E EVA rate, so I sent solar generated power to PG&E during peak hours at $0.48/kwh and charge EVs at night at $0.12/kwh. I have always had credit left at true up.

In my situation, I am wondering how Powerwalls may help. The only thing I can think of is for power outage, but it is very rare (I haven't seen it for a few years) and I can live without power for a few hours or even a couple of days. If I really need power, I could use a 2.5kw power inverter to connect to either my MX 100D or RAV4 EV (with 40kwh Tesla battery) DC to DC converter (12V battery posts) and power my house for weeks (for lighting, refrigerator, computers and home entertainment systems, etc. except for AC).

If I do need more power in the future, I could add more solar panels, would that be more helpful than investing in powerwalls? Did I miss anything?

It is for the big one when power will be out for days

 

[davecolene0606]

Linking to earlier originating subthread:
Powerwall 2 supply issues

You bought a Model S and you're concerned about a a ROI of less than 10 years? LOL.

ROI on any car in the same category as any Tesla....

Never

Drops mike, throws up hands “really?”

Fire Away!

 

[mspohr]

ROI on any car in the same category as any Tesla....

Never

Drops mike, throws up hands “really?”

Fire Away!

That's what I was thinking. No ROI on Powerwall for me but it is insurance against power failure. Now that power company is shutting off power when it's windy, it should come in handy.
If you live in the city, probably not a problem.

 

[cwied]

PE&E doesn't refund, can't carry over either. It's OK to generate more energy to help others but Powerwalls don't generate energy.

I take it you don't have a CCA available locally, then? I'm also in PG&E territory, but the local CCA is providing my electricity. I still pay the transmission fees to PG&E and those are net metered the normal PG&E way (I'm on NEM 1.0).

 

[winfield100]

I too couldn't figure out why I may need Powerwalls. I am in SF Bay Area with solar and 2 EVs. I am on PG&E EVA rate, so I sent solar generated power to PG&E during peak hours at $0.48/kwh and charge EVs at night at $0.12/kwh. I have always had credit left at true up.

In my situation, I am wondering how Powerwalls may help. The only thing I can think of is for power outage, but it is very rare (I haven't seen it for a few years) and I can live without power for a few hours or even a couple of days. If I really need power, I could use a 2.5kw power inverter to connect to either my MX 100D or RAV4 EV (with 40kwh Tesla battery) DC to DC converter (12V battery posts) and power my house for weeks (for lighting, refrigerator, computers and home entertainment systems, etc. except for AC).

If I do need more power in the future, I could add more solar panels, would that be more helpful than investing in powerwalls? Did I miss anything?

Please correct me if I am wrong
If you have PV plus power wall plus gateway you can be a node in a VPP (virtual power plant) a bunch of these coupled together (100, 10kW systems = 1 megawatts plus if have 1 powerwall each 1.4 megawatts battery) so a bunch of these could equal say “San onofre” or “Diablo Canyon” and such
Look at Hornsdale plant in Australia VPP
Look at decommissioning coal plants etc.

 

[mspohr]

Please correct me if I am wrong
If you have PV plus power wall plus gateway you can be a node in a VPP (virtual power plant) a bunch of these coupled together (100, 10kW systems = 1 megawatts plus if have 1 powerwall each 1.4 megawatts battery) so a bunch of these could equal say “San onofre” or “Diablo Canyon” and such
Look at Hornsdale plant in Australia VPP
Look at decommissioning coal plants etc.

Green Mountain Power in VT is doing just that and saving customers money.
However, I doubt PGE is capable of such thinking.

 

[EinSV]

Green Mountain Power in VT is doing just that and saving customers money.
However, I doubt PGE is capable of such thinking.

California just passed legislation requiring the California Public Utilities Commission to create rules that facilitate the use of clean microgrids. Perhaps this will provide a framework that can accelerate adoption of virtual powerplants in California and elsewhere:

"California’s large influence on the energy industry bodes well for US microgrid growth, following the state’s passage last week of microgrid legislation that other states are likely to emulate, say industry players.

SB 1339 opens the door for creation of a microgrid tariff and predictable interconnection rules and time frames. Both create fairness and reduce risk, which should make it easier to finance projects, said David Chiesa, senior director of global business development at S&C Electric."​

Microgrid Legislation in California Could Become National Model

A copy of the full bill (which is fairly short) is here:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1339

 

[electracity]

Green Mountain Power in VT is doing just that and saving customers money.

GMP likely rate based that trial of 2000 powerwalls. That means all their customer were charged to pay for that trail. Which is the opposite of saving customers money.

Not saying it was a bad idea.

 

[mspohr]

GMP likely rate based that trial of 2000 powerwalls. That means all their customer were charged to pay for that trail. Which is the opposite of saving customers money.

Not saying it was a bad idea.

Here's an article on the savings from just one heat wave:
Whoa! Heatwave Savings for All GMP Customers Could Reach $500,000 Thanks to Innovation and Storage - Green Mountain Power

 

[mspohr]

California just passed legislation requiring the California Public Utilities Commission to create rules that facilitate the use of clean microgrids. Perhaps this will provide a framework that can accelerate adoption of virtual powerplants in California and elsewhere:

"California’s large influence on the energy industry bodes well for US microgrid growth, following the state’s passage last week of microgrid legislation that other states are likely to emulate, say industry players.

SB 1339 opens the door for creation of a microgrid tariff and predictable interconnection rules and time frames. Both create fairness and reduce risk, which should make it easier to finance projects, said David Chiesa, senior director of global business development at S&C Electric."​

Microgrid Legislation in California Could Become National Model

A copy of the full bill (which is fairly short) is here:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1339

This is good news. It seems that the California Legislature is trying to overcome PGE's fossilized thinking.

"Chiesa said that he was surprised utilities opposed the microgrid legislation, given that it removes a key concern some have expressed about microgrids. They fear facing a so-called “death spiral,” where customers exit the system to buy power from microgrids, leaving utilities with the requirement to ensure reliable electricity without revenue from sales to pay for it.
With a microgrid tariff in place, utilities will have an assured revenue stream to cover costs of required back-up power, Chiesa said."

 

[electracity]

Here's an article on the savings from just one heat wave:
Whoa! Heatwave Savings for All GMP Customers Could Reach $500,000 Thanks to Innovation and Storage - Green Mountain Power

They spent at least 14 million. The question is what storage could they have purchased in Powerpacks at substations.

 

[mspohr]

They spent at least 14 million. The question is what storage could they have purchased in Powerpacks at substations.

The question is why put Powerpacks at substations when you can put Powerwalls in homes and give people secure power isolated from all grid faults and grid losses and get local load management?
(They also have a utility scale solar plus battery storage facility.)