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Tesla Researcher Touts Million-Mile Battery Breakthrough



A new paper by Tesla’s head battery researcher Jeff Dahn suggests the company is developing battery cells that will power a vehicle for more than a million miles.

Dahn’s team at the Department of Physics and Atmospheric Science at Dalhousie University has been testing a moderate-energy-density lithium-ion pouch cell chemistry, which differs from the cylindrical cells currently used for Tesla vehicles. The paper claims the cells will have a life of “at least two decades.”

According to the paper: 

“We present a wide range of testing results on an excellent moderate-energy-density lithium-ion pouch cell chemistry to serve as benchmarks for academics and companies developing advanced lithium-ion and other “beyond lithium-ion” cell chemistries to (hopefully) exceed. These results are far superior to those that have been used by researchers modelling cell failure mechanisms and as such, these results are more representative of modern Li-ion cells and should be adopted by modellers. Up to three years of testing has been completed for some of the tests. Tests include long-term charge-discharge cycling at 20, 40 and 55°C, long-term storage at 20, 40 and 55°C, and high precision coulometry at 40°C. Several different electrolytes are considered in this LiNi0.5Mn0.3Co0.2O2/graphite chemistry, including those that can promote fast charging. The reasons for cell performance degradation and impedance growth are examined using several methods. We conclude that cells of this type should be able to power an electric vehicle for over 1.6 million kilometers (1 million miles) and last at least two decades in grid energy storage.”

A million-mile battery would be particularly beneficial to two Tesla business units — the Semi and a planned robotaxi network. Tesla has said it intends debut both in 2020.

According to the paper: 

“This situation may change with the proposed introduction of “robo taxis”, long haul electric trucks and vehicle-to-grid applications. In the former, vehicles will be driving all day, much like a conventional taxi and undergoing nearly 100% DOD cycling. Long haul trucks will almost certainly run in near 100% DOD situations. Cells in vehicles tethered to the grid will be racking up charge-discharge cycles even when the vehicle is not moving. Clearly EVs destined for vehicle-to-grid applications, robo taxis or long haul trucking, would favor a lithium-ion chemistry that could deliver many more charge-discharge cycles in a decade than an EV that was destined for typical commuter driving where high energy density to give the longest driving range for weekend trips might be emphasized. Electric buses represent another application where duty cycles approaching 100% DOD are used on a daily basis.”

The paper essentially open-sourced the team’s findings with the intention of pushing battery technology forward for the entire industry. Several industry watchers have noted that it’s likely that Tesla has an even better technology in development if it’s willing to share such important data.

See the full paper here.

 
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  • Funny
Reactions: cwerdna
Elon said
- cylindricals are the best
- NCA is the way to go
- will reach zero Cobalt content

everyone else said
- no to cylindricals
- NMC is the way to go even if it is more expensive than NCA because it is a safer material


Jeff Dahn says
- pouch is better than cylindrical
- NMC is the way to go
- contains 20% of Cobalt


What will Elon respond to this?
 

Morix

New Member
Sep 9, 2019
1
0
Germany
Elon said
- cylindricals are the best
- NCA is the way to go
- will reach zero Cobalt content

everyone else said
- no to cylindricals
- NMC is the way to go even if it is more expensive than NCA because it is a safer material


Jeff Dahn says
- pouch is better than cylindrical
- NMC is the way to go
- contains 20% of Cobalt


What will Elon respond to this?

I can't read any judgement on cylindrical vs. pouch in the paper.

The Question is, is the relay the chemistry that Tesla will use? Why would they publish this, before products are ready or the battery investor day?

Jeff Dahn has also published a paper that says Cobalt is not needed.

Did they charge the batteries 0-100% every time or did i misunderstand something?
 
side note: Jeff Dahn does NOT research cell formats (pouches nor cylinders) - he researches chemistries. Pouches are easy to do in a lab. Cylinders only done in factories.

For actual details & info {vs everyone else said} Types of Battery Cells; Cylindrical Cell, Button Cell, Pouch Cell
fine charts and diagrams
The demand for the 18650 would have peaked in 2011 had it not been for new demands in military, medical and drones, including the Tesla electric car. The switch to a flat-design in consumer products and larger format for the electric powertrain will eventually saturate the 18650. A new entry is the 21700.
Source: Avicenne Energy
 
So I loved the 'raven' upgrade
the autopilot 3 or 4 or 10 whatever we up to.
But is it me? is Battery Day gonna be a vacation day curling up to a bottle (or a hot chocolate or your drink of choice)
I'm so stoked about a new battery formula, esp including dry electrode or whatever it is. I swore I was gonna keep my AP1 75D model S forever....but the advances!
 
  • Love
Reactions: Brando
So I loved the 'raven' upgrade
the autopilot 3 or 4 or 10 whatever we up to.
But is it me? is Battery Day gonna be a vacation day curling up to a bottle (or a hot chocolate or your drink of choice)
I'm so stoked about a new battery formula, esp including dry electrode or whatever it is. I swore I was gonna keep my AP1 75D model S forever....but the advances!
You can try to wear-out your 75D. In just 30 years you'll be driving a antique, collectors and classic car. The first popular electric, 4 door, 4 wheel drive Tesla Model S Sedan. Motor Trend best car of the last 70 + 30 years (oh, yours is the improved version AWD). Perhaps you might wear out the battery and restore to 100 or more? What else might you upgrade/restore?? When will you get to 1 million miles? ;)

Family heirloom?
 
You can try to wear-out your 75D. In just 30 years you'll be driving a antique, collectors and classic car. The first popular electric, 4 door, 4 wheel drive Tesla Model S Sedan. Motor Trend best car of the last 70 + 30 years (oh, yours is the improved version AWD). Perhaps you might wear out the battery and restore to 100 or more? What else might you upgrade/restore?? When will you get to 1 million miles? ;)

Family heirloom?

The battery pack in my 85d heirloom is sitting at about 70% at 86k miles along with a failing MCU, may end up being an expensive antique. An old computer on wheels is just that. Don't want to burst anyone's bubble but it's what is happening to me.
 
  • Informative
  • Funny
Reactions: cwerdna and Brando
20% is how many dollars? - oh, 20% is not money - but a percentage of what exactly??
No one seems to have a handle on the raw material costs vs battery pack costs. (what if cobalt costs double - does pack cost double?)
How much LI or Co or Al or Magnesium ... you get the idea, right?

Great talkers, little to no valuable information. and fine video camera images

PS - seems to me cells (18650, 21700) can be automated for faster assembly vs pouch.
Pouch is easier, hence wide use in labs and low production numbers.
But this is only my guess after seeing batteries being made.

later.
 

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