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May 19, 2017
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A new paper by Tesla’s head battery researcher Jeff Dahn suggests the company is developing battery cells that will power a vehicle for more than a million miles. Dahn’s team at the Department of Physics and Atmospheric Science at Dalhousie University has been testing a moderate-energy-density lithium-ion pouch cell chemistry, which differs from the cylindrical...
[WPURI="https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2019/09/09/tesla-researcher-touts-million-mile-battery-breakthrough/"]READ FULL ARTICLE[/WPURI]
 
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acoste

Member
Nov 1, 2018
742
361
California
Elon said
- cylindricals are the best
- NCA is the way to go
- will reach zero Cobalt content

everyone else said
- no to cylindricals
- NMC is the way to go even if it is more expensive than NCA because it is a safer material


Jeff Dahn says
- pouch is better than cylindrical
- NMC is the way to go
- contains 20% of Cobalt


What will Elon respond to this?
 

Morix

New Member
Sep 9, 2019
1
0
Germany
Elon said
- cylindricals are the best
- NCA is the way to go
- will reach zero Cobalt content

everyone else said
- no to cylindricals
- NMC is the way to go even if it is more expensive than NCA because it is a safer material


Jeff Dahn says
- pouch is better than cylindrical
- NMC is the way to go
- contains 20% of Cobalt


What will Elon respond to this?

I can't read any judgement on cylindrical vs. pouch in the paper.

The Question is, is the relay the chemistry that Tesla will use? Why would they publish this, before products are ready or the battery investor day?

Jeff Dahn has also published a paper that says Cobalt is not needed.

Did they charge the batteries 0-100% every time or did i misunderstand something?
 

Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,916
2,035
Bainbridge Island, WA
side note: Jeff Dahn does NOT research cell formats (pouches nor cylinders) - he researches chemistries. Pouches are easy to do in a lab. Cylinders only done in factories.

For actual details & info {vs everyone else said} Types of Battery Cells; Cylindrical Cell, Button Cell, Pouch Cell
fine charts and diagrams
The demand for the 18650 would have peaked in 2011 had it not been for new demands in military, medical and drones, including the Tesla electric car. The switch to a flat-design in consumer products and larger format for the electric powertrain will eventually saturate the 18650. A new entry is the 21700.
Source: Avicenne Energy
 

Jack007

Member
Oct 17, 2016
193
146
Calgary AB
So I loved the 'raven' upgrade
the autopilot 3 or 4 or 10 whatever we up to.
But is it me? is Battery Day gonna be a vacation day curling up to a bottle (or a hot chocolate or your drink of choice)
I'm so stoked about a new battery formula, esp including dry electrode or whatever it is. I swore I was gonna keep my AP1 75D model S forever....but the advances!
 
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Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,916
2,035
Bainbridge Island, WA
So I loved the 'raven' upgrade
the autopilot 3 or 4 or 10 whatever we up to.
But is it me? is Battery Day gonna be a vacation day curling up to a bottle (or a hot chocolate or your drink of choice)
I'm so stoked about a new battery formula, esp including dry electrode or whatever it is. I swore I was gonna keep my AP1 75D model S forever....but the advances!
You can try to wear-out your 75D. In just 30 years you'll be driving a antique, collectors and classic car. The first popular electric, 4 door, 4 wheel drive Tesla Model S Sedan. Motor Trend best car of the last 70 + 30 years (oh, yours is the improved version AWD). Perhaps you might wear out the battery and restore to 100 or more? What else might you upgrade/restore?? When will you get to 1 million miles? ;)

Family heirloom?
 

Bobesla

Member
Nov 19, 2019
8
1
92648
You can try to wear-out your 75D. In just 30 years you'll be driving a antique, collectors and classic car. The first popular electric, 4 door, 4 wheel drive Tesla Model S Sedan. Motor Trend best car of the last 70 + 30 years (oh, yours is the improved version AWD). Perhaps you might wear out the battery and restore to 100 or more? What else might you upgrade/restore?? When will you get to 1 million miles? ;)

Family heirloom?

The battery pack in my 85d heirloom is sitting at about 70% at 86k miles along with a failing MCU, may end up being an expensive antique. An old computer on wheels is just that. Don't want to burst anyone's bubble but it's what is happening to me.
 
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Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,916
2,035
Bainbridge Island, WA
20% is how many dollars? - oh, 20% is not money - but a percentage of what exactly??
No one seems to have a handle on the raw material costs vs battery pack costs. (what if cobalt costs double - does pack cost double?)
How much LI or Co or Al or Magnesium ... you get the idea, right?

Great talkers, little to no valuable information. and fine video camera images

PS - seems to me cells (18650, 21700) can be automated for faster assembly vs pouch.
Pouch is easier, hence wide use in labs and low production numbers.
But this is only my guess after seeing batteries being made.

later.
 

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