As I understand it, this was confirming an interpretation of a 1937 law. This is the very thing that the courts will decide. I don't think Tesla accused NJ of something above the law. Just that they were working with Christie to do this through legislation and they suddenly decided otherwise.
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Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!
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apvbguy
Banned
maybe that is the perception but I've learned that most states have similar levels of government arrogance, ineptness and corruption.
for the record I am not a christie sycophant
pbleic, to me it looks rather clear Tesla is saying that the Christie admin. effectively "completely changed the law" via one of its commissions, again, from Tesla's blog,
"The Administration has decided to go outside the legislative process by expediting a rule proposal that would completely change the law in New Jersey."
(my bolding for emphasis)
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Here's what a Rep from Washington State said about this type of legislation when they tried to introduce it in his state:
Rep. Reuven Carlyle, who chairs the state’s finance committee, is not too wild about the idea. He sent us this statement about the legislation this evening:
“Tesla’s embrace of a direct, open competition sales approach is exactly what we say we want from old style, traditional industries to survive—innovation, creativity and an entrepreneurial spirit. The ridiculous notion that the political process in the Legislature should intervene in the marketplace of ideas in the automobile industry to prevent Tesla from direct sales is patronizing at best, and many of us are committed to defeating this special interest legislation.”
http://www.geekwire.com/2014/proposed-law-block-new-tesla-stores-washington-state/
Too bad those in control in NJ, Texas and Arizona can't see it this way. On the bright side:
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Electric cars used to be ridiculed but It's kind of hard to ridicule a Tesla. So we're now clearly in stage 2. Soon, it will be on to stage 3.
Rep. Reuven Carlyle, who chairs the state’s finance committee, is not too wild about the idea. He sent us this statement about the legislation this evening:
“Tesla’s embrace of a direct, open competition sales approach is exactly what we say we want from old style, traditional industries to survive—innovation, creativity and an entrepreneurial spirit. The ridiculous notion that the political process in the Legislature should intervene in the marketplace of ideas in the automobile industry to prevent Tesla from direct sales is patronizing at best, and many of us are committed to defeating this special interest legislation.”
http://www.geekwire.com/2014/proposed-law-block-new-tesla-stores-washington-state/
Too bad those in control in NJ, Texas and Arizona can't see it this way. On the bright side:
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Electric cars used to be ridiculed but It's kind of hard to ridicule a Tesla. So we're now clearly in stage 2. Soon, it will be on to stage 3.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
New Jersey legislature voted to ban hydraulic fracturing (a.k.a. "Fracking") last summer or perhaps the summer before, Christie used his veto power to overturn the ban. He clearly does what he wants or is paid to want, not what his constituents or even his own lawmakers want. Does this make him any different than any other politician? Who knows.
apvbguy
Banned
what makes you believe that his constituents are against fracking? do you have proof he was paid for his vote? do you realize that the governor is a republican and the legislature is controlled by democrats and that usually means that they will not always be on the same page?
Can Tesla survive in this state? I think rather than saying I am wrong or yell at me, which I feel posting this will invoke argument and hatred towards me, but facts are facts, opinions are irrelevant at this point.
I believe that, unfortunately - the answer is no. ;(
Remember: YOUR VOTE COUNTS!
Reason? Tesla is up against a multitude of very wealthy and powerful companies that have the power to 'pay to play' and when I say 'pay to play' I am talking willing to invest BILLIONS to take down this company at every course of action that they undertake. The main key players: Ford, Chevy, and other large foreign car companies. These companies agree that Tesla has gained to much traction and it is an endangerment to their sales. If a person is buying a Tesla, then they are not buying a ford.. Chevy.. or any other vehicle and that is a potential loss of profit. Tesla has also proven to be the leader in electric cars, with enthusiast in every direction. Tesla unfortunately and most likely does not have the wealth to compete against these corporate giants. In the end Tesla will unfortunately lose this battle.
Now that isn't to say that it cannot be reevaluated. In the United States as we all have seen, people are the driving force to change, laws are a hindrance, but people eventually have the power to hinder the laws that tend to become obstructions. This can be exemplified throughout American history: Slavery, women's rights, probation, and even same sex marriage. I believe if we band together, we can overturn this proposal, but it has to be a joint "EVent" meaning if we agree that this should not happen, then lets express our opinions; not on a forums that only Tesla people read or that no one besides the people who know visit this web address want to read - we need to go to them. They will not come to us.
With that stated I would like to amend a joint EVent for all who can attend to match to Trenton at a predetermined date to express our opinions and to show that we are not just bloggers, but we have a voice and we disapprove of this decision.
And to that end would anyone like to join me in creating a Event of this kind? If not, then think about it logically. If New Jersey passes this PRN 2013-138, then most likely NYC will do it and hell.. Why not Texas? This trend will continue, unless Tesla figures out a way to change their model of business OR pay more in taxes. This could eventually be the single killer of the electric car. Then maybe a famous movie producer who owns a Tesla can create "Who killed the electric car - SEQUAL-" I sure as hell wouldn't want that - would you?
OFFICIAL:
TELSA MUST STOP THE SALE OF TESLA MODEL S'S BY APRIL 1ST:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702304704504579432912699054076.html
New Jersey Becomes Third State To Ban Tesla's Direct Sales Model:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/11/new-jersey-becomes-third-state-to-ban-teslas-direct-sales-model/
Pending law would block Tesla sales in New York:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/21/autos/tesla-new-york/http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/21/autos/tesla-new-york/
New effort in Ohio to ban Tesla’s model for dealerships:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...fort-begins-to-outlaw-tesla-retail-model.html
I believe that, unfortunately - the answer is no. ;(
Remember: YOUR VOTE COUNTS!
Reason? Tesla is up against a multitude of very wealthy and powerful companies that have the power to 'pay to play' and when I say 'pay to play' I am talking willing to invest BILLIONS to take down this company at every course of action that they undertake. The main key players: Ford, Chevy, and other large foreign car companies. These companies agree that Tesla has gained to much traction and it is an endangerment to their sales. If a person is buying a Tesla, then they are not buying a ford.. Chevy.. or any other vehicle and that is a potential loss of profit. Tesla has also proven to be the leader in electric cars, with enthusiast in every direction. Tesla unfortunately and most likely does not have the wealth to compete against these corporate giants. In the end Tesla will unfortunately lose this battle.
Now that isn't to say that it cannot be reevaluated. In the United States as we all have seen, people are the driving force to change, laws are a hindrance, but people eventually have the power to hinder the laws that tend to become obstructions. This can be exemplified throughout American history: Slavery, women's rights, probation, and even same sex marriage. I believe if we band together, we can overturn this proposal, but it has to be a joint "EVent" meaning if we agree that this should not happen, then lets express our opinions; not on a forums that only Tesla people read or that no one besides the people who know visit this web address want to read - we need to go to them. They will not come to us.
With that stated I would like to amend a joint EVent for all who can attend to match to Trenton at a predetermined date to express our opinions and to show that we are not just bloggers, but we have a voice and we disapprove of this decision.
And to that end would anyone like to join me in creating a Event of this kind? If not, then think about it logically. If New Jersey passes this PRN 2013-138, then most likely NYC will do it and hell.. Why not Texas? This trend will continue, unless Tesla figures out a way to change their model of business OR pay more in taxes. This could eventually be the single killer of the electric car. Then maybe a famous movie producer who owns a Tesla can create "Who killed the electric car - SEQUAL-" I sure as hell wouldn't want that - would you?
OFFICIAL:
TELSA MUST STOP THE SALE OF TESLA MODEL S'S BY APRIL 1ST:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702304704504579432912699054076.html
New Jersey Becomes Third State To Ban Tesla's Direct Sales Model:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/11/new-jersey-becomes-third-state-to-ban-teslas-direct-sales-model/
Pending law would block Tesla sales in New York:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/21/autos/tesla-new-york/http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/21/autos/tesla-new-york/
New effort in Ohio to ban Tesla’s model for dealerships:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...fort-begins-to-outlaw-tesla-retail-model.html
Last edited by a moderator:
There is not any information on this because the state will not allow this to happen. This is all about money at the end of the day.
The state of New Jersey only gains INCOME TAX (there isn't sales tax because of the direct sales and because of the EV subsidies) from this company. Unlike Ford, Chevy, and all of the above... New Jersey collects a multitude of taxes (income tax, sales tax, corporate tax, fees, donations, large property tax, and much more) and campaign dollars from these companies.
New Jersey doesn't care if Tesla is a new company or an American company, the state is pretty much broke, cops retiring at $350,000 pensions.. school assistances, administrators and so on.
At this point in time Tesla does NOT have any say in anything. Take note the reason why they were informed only 24 hours before the appearance of the proposed bill.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/defending-innovation-and-consumer-choice-new-jersey
apvbguy
Banned
FYI:
the stealerships could be shooting themselves in the foot
Are dealerships helping Tesla Motors? - Teslarati.com
the stealerships could be shooting themselves in the foot
Are dealerships helping Tesla Motors? - Teslarati.com
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. The cat's out of the bag and there's no putting it back in. This is a setback for sure, and a big one at that, but could we really expect the "multitude of very wealthy and powerful companies" to just sit back and do nothing? I predict they will eventually be defeated, especially with people like you and others working to counter their efforts.
NigelM
Recovering Member
You just need to learn to play by the rules they give you. Accept the situation for what it is. ;-)
Roundup - Phew! That was something. Thanks to everyone who took the time from their day to make the trip. The testimony was everything from hard line facts to heartfelt pleas. Erudite argument pushed it to the limit, Fred La Tari hit a home run with his story about how he couldn't even get a dealer to sell him a Leaf and IanG told it like it was - you screwed up guys. The other dozen or so people - same story and thanks to them & my apologies for not remembering all the names - many of you are above.
Whilst the proposal was passed, the chairman thanked the assembled public, acknowledged our time and ended by welcoming continued discussion on this matter. I'm ever hopeful because, it's not over until the fat lady signs.
Whilst the proposal was passed, the chairman thanked the assembled public, acknowledged our time and ended by welcoming continued discussion on this matter. I'm ever hopeful because, it's not over until the fat lady signs.
OK, let me see if I understand all this correctly.
A Republican Senate in NJ has done something evidently unjust on behalf of a Car Dealer Association, placing the interests of a hated special interest group of salespeople ahead of the interests of the citizens of New Jersey.
In so doing they have got to first base at the cost of raising the anger of a large crowd. Most curiously they have done so in the absence of any high power representation from Tesla or any big money legal intervention, again from Tesla.
...BUT... Getting to first base counts for squat, because the deal needs to get through a Democratic legislature to pass into law.
Now the battle that matters can begin, Tesla can roll out the big guns and do so with a tidal wave of public support to right an injustice. This Tesla is bound to win in the Democrat-led legislature.
...BUT... The Republican governor has a veto, which on any given week day he can use to overturn the decision of the Legislature as he sees fit.
...BUT... This Governor is a Republican Presidential candidate nominee hopeful. The will of a huge groundswell of angry citizens who do not want to have their rights as consumers shunted for the benefit of some car salesmen is not an attractive target to veto.
...AND... Without going through the process of getting everyone all riled up about the original injustice, that veto would have been much more of a danger than it now is.
End result - Legislature overturns anti-Tesla provisions, perhaps even adds a clause to ratify Tesla's rights to trade. Governor does not veto the legislature.
Does that sound about right?
A Republican Senate in NJ has done something evidently unjust on behalf of a Car Dealer Association, placing the interests of a hated special interest group of salespeople ahead of the interests of the citizens of New Jersey.
In so doing they have got to first base at the cost of raising the anger of a large crowd. Most curiously they have done so in the absence of any high power representation from Tesla or any big money legal intervention, again from Tesla.
...BUT... Getting to first base counts for squat, because the deal needs to get through a Democratic legislature to pass into law.
Now the battle that matters can begin, Tesla can roll out the big guns and do so with a tidal wave of public support to right an injustice. This Tesla is bound to win in the Democrat-led legislature.
...BUT... The Republican governor has a veto, which on any given week day he can use to overturn the decision of the Legislature as he sees fit.
...BUT... This Governor is a Republican Presidential candidate nominee hopeful. The will of a huge groundswell of angry citizens who do not want to have their rights as consumers shunted for the benefit of some car salesmen is not an attractive target to veto.
...AND... Without going through the process of getting everyone all riled up about the original injustice, that veto would have been much more of a danger than it now is.
End result - Legislature overturns anti-Tesla provisions, perhaps even adds a clause to ratify Tesla's rights to trade. Governor does not veto the legislature.
Does that sound about right?
apvbguy
Banned
a big thanks to you for getting to trenton on our behalf with such short notice.
It could be that the battle didn't go well for tesla today but possibly the door has been opened a bit for changes down the road.
I hope that you were able to make some good contacts and that you guys will do your best to promote the tesla cause in the future.
I drove from Los Angeles to San Luis Obispo last night and remarked to my passengers as we drove by BMW, Mercedes, Chevrolet, Nissan, Toyota etc. dealerships along the coast how MUCH overflowing inventory they all have! Perhaps they really are hurting and see Tesla as at least part of their woes.
Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey
Well this really sucks. I wonder if this will limit the number of superchargers in New Jersey also...
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/11/5497638/tesla-sales-banned-in-new-jersey
Well this really sucks. I wonder if this will limit the number of superchargers in New Jersey also...
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/11/5497638/tesla-sales-banned-in-new-jersey
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