Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

[dsm363]

you can choose whom you think is right but there is one rule that you cannot change, the golden rule! do you know the golden rule?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_'He_who_has_the_gold_makes_the_rules'_mean?#slide=1
and once again I remind you that the US is not a democracy

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which goes back to how I got myself in trouble around here because I noted how elon or his people really screwed the pooch on this issue because of their poor preparation and poor planning.
if they would have ceded some of the groundwork to a local professional the outcome may have been the same but then again it could have been different. Now all elon can do is huff and puff and quite frankly IMHO that will not ingratiate himself with the poohbahs running the show (scam) in trenton.

That is your opinion. They now have to sell cars just like they do in Texas and sales are very good in Texas even without a store right across the state line like they have in NY. Is it ideal? No but this is generating a ton of positive press for Tesla especially since in involves the dealership lobby and a governor who has had issues on the credibility front recently only making Tesla look like the little guy. This is a short term setback only. Paying off some lobbyist wouldn't have helped this go around.

 

[apvbguy]

That is your opinion. They now have to sell cars just like they do in Texas and sales are very good in Texas even without a store right across the state line like they have in NY. Is it ideal? No but this is generating a ton of positive press for Tesla especially since in involves the dealership lobby and a governor who has had issues on the credibility front recently only making Tesla look like the little guy. This is a short term setback only. Paying off some lobbyist wouldn't have helped this go around.

one respondent noted that he [elon/tesla] could operate the stores as informational only galleries that assist people navigating the web site to make their tesla purchases, he could call it a call center

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

you can choose whom you think is right [1] but there is one rule that you cannot change, the golden rule! do you know the golden rule?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_'He_who_has_the_gold_makes_the_rules'_mean?#slide=1
[2] and once again I remind you that the US is not a democracy

1. I do not base my view of what is possible or not on wiki.answers.com. Maybe that’s somewhat rebellious of me …or not. Look… Can we please just agree to disagree on this one?

2. Hence the keyword “fairly democratic”… Regardless, I can still express my opinion on an online forum without risking being swept away by a SEAL team. And that’s the aspect of democracy we are pen fighting about here.

And now: Can we please get back on topic?

 

[Room_A113]

mmm, unusual routing why did they come in from the south?
FWIW teslas are certainly welcome in NJ, they just can't be sold to you by tesla

The two Tesla's filled up at the Delaware supercharger. That's why they came from the south. I know that Tesla's are welcome to drive in New Jersey. But it's very ironic that just one month before they are kicked out of selling cars in New Jersey that Tesla posted a video that prominently says "welcome to New Jersey."

 

[apvbguy]

found these articles, however elon makes a silly comment when he says that the commission is stacked with christie political appointees, duh!
Tesla's Elon Musk blasts N.J. Gov. Chris Christie

Tesla Banned From Selling Cars In New Jersey

Democratic lawmakers want to stop Christie's anti-Tesla rule in NJ | NJ.com

and the IMHO the best article is this one

Christie Blocks Tesla Out of New Jersey | National Review Online

 

[DingDingDao]

Elon addresses the People of New Jersey

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/people-new-jersey

I love how direct he is with his criticism.

 

[Gizmotoy]

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/people-new-jersey

I love how direct he is with his criticism.

Same. It makes me immensely happy that I supported a company that behaves this way. There's no "we're disappointed in the actions taken and are pursuing all available options" boilerplate BS. Direct, honest, and to the point... very happy indeed.

 

[Robert.Boston]

found these articles, however elon makes a silly comment when he says that the commission is stacked with christie political appointees, duh!

You and I may know that the commission members are political appointees who serve at the pleasure of the governor, but I'd wager that most don't. It's certainly worth mentioning. More to the point, Elon is pointing the finger at the real decision-maker, Gov. Christie, rather than his pawns.

Earlier you suggested that if only Tesla had hired a well-connected lobbyist in Trenton, none of this would have happened. Do you know for a fact that they don't have such a person? The NRO article certainly suggests that Tesla was pretty well plugged in and had what they thought was a deal, only to find themselves out-maneuvered/out-spent by NJCAR. It's not obvious to me that this was a failing of Tesla's political consultant rather than a power-play by the car dealerships that even the savviest of insiders couldn't have countered.

 

[brianman]

You'll have to back that up. How would exclude Tesla from the entire continent (presumably you mean the US, not the actual continent)?

There's no federal law on the books excluding Tesla's direct sales. Taking it though the court as a violation of, say, the commerce clause, doesn't suddenly add a law if the lawsuit fails.

When government is involved, sometimes the answer to A, B, or C is to introduce a D that nobody foresaw or wanted. If you don't see how this could happen after the last 20 years of politics, then you need to look more closely.

 

[ckessel]

When government is involved, sometimes the answer to A, B, or C is to introduce a D that nobody foresaw or wanted. If you don't see how this could happen after the last 20 years of politics, then you need to look more closely.

So, your recommended strategy is Tesla should be fearful of a hypothetical action that can't be named and maintain a low profile and not to cause a disruption that'd upset a politically powerful entity?

 

[brianman]

So, your recommended strategy is Tesla should be fearful of a hypothetical action that can't be named and maintain a low profile and not to cause a disruption that'd upset a politically powerful entity?

No. If you "follow the arrows" back to my earlier post and reread it, you'd perhaps get more out of it this time:

Seems like it'd be cheaper to fight one federal battle than 50 state battles.

You're assuming they win that fight.

As it stands today, some states are "troublesome" (to Tesla) and "annoying" (to customers) but citizens can still manage to get the car. If federal went "not a good way", then the entire country could be a no-fly zone. That's a pretty big gamble. Better to play small ball and build public awareness and support before taking the gamble.

Note the (now) underlined.

 

[apvbguy]

You and I may know that the commission members are political appointees who serve at the pleasure of the governor, but I'd wager that most don't. It's certainly worth mentioning. More to the point, Elon is pointing the finger at the real decision-maker, Gov. Christie, rather than his pawns.

Earlier you suggested that if only Tesla had hired a well-connected lobbyist in Trenton, none of this would have happened. Do you know for a fact that they don't have such a person? The NRO article certainly suggests that Tesla was pretty well plugged in and had what they thought was a deal, only to find themselves out-maneuvered/out-spent by NJCAR. It's not obvious to me that this was a failing of Tesla's political consultant rather than a power-play by the car dealerships that even the savviest of insiders couldn't have countered.

having been there/done that I can state that this is a classic example of poor preparation on eon's/tesla's part.
This isn't a unique story as most companies do not pay enough attention to the lower ends of the political pool in state capitols
one reason that the dealers so easily got what they wanted was because of their long established relationships.
I think that the NRO article alluded to the fact that elon/tesla thought they had a deal but could it be that they didn't have a deal with the right people.
in NJ the governor isn't really all that powerful.
the fact is that Elon/tesla have been in NJ for maybe 2 years, these "good old boys" have been buying roast beef sandwiches for the poohbahs many many years.
maybe a good lobbyist couldn't of altered what happened, you can't guess on that, but having the contacts in place would have certainly lessened the shock, if the supposed deal elon/struck with tesla was going south maybe it could have been saved by a having a better handle on who the real players are.

 

[ckessel]

No. If you "follow the arrows" back to my earlier post and reread it, you'd perhaps get more out of it this time.
Note the (now) underlined.

I did, and I think you're 100% wrong, flat out, no qualifiers. You're advocating doing nothing outside of the state level out of fear of that it's a "gamble" risking some nameless federal backlash.

 

[brianman]

(a) I did, and I think you're 100% wrong, flat out, no qualifiers. (b) You're advocating doing nothing outside of the state level out of fear of that it's a "gamble" risking some nameless federal backlash.

(a) You're welcome to your opinion, and I personally welcome it.
(b) This is incorrect. I'm not advocating anything; I'm saying that it's not an unreasonable strategy to focus on state rather than federal currently. You're phrasing is also incorrect because we know they they aren't "doing nothing outside of the state level" because, frankly, the last two blog posts are heard globally. Also, even if you discount the blog posts "we don't know they are doing anything outside the state level" isn't the same as "they are doing nothing outside the state level."

I'll try to say it in fewer words that hopefully are less entangling:
If you ask for a federal response, be prepared to not like that federal response and then be in even worse shape. It's a gamble to do so; the question is about when to take that gamble.

 

[Doug_G]

I would like to ask people to lower the temperature of discussion here. Keep this about this issues, not about the people. Thanks!

-mod

 

[ckessel]

(b) This is incorrect. I'm not advocating anything;

You advocated it right here where you made a statement about what's "better".

Better to play small ball and build public awareness and support before taking the gamble.

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If you ask for a federal response, be prepared to not like that federal response and then be in even worse shape. It's a gamble to do so; the question is about when to take that gamble.

Raising a challenge to a law isn't asking for a federal response. It's addressing a narrowly focused question. No laws change if Tesla loses. There's no gamble as the court doesn't suddenly sit down and write laws mandating franchises.

Asking for a federal response, that'd be more akin to the petitions that were going around, so if you're worried about a provoking a federal response that horse has left the barn.

 

[NigelM]

...these "good old boys" have been buying roast beef sandwiches for the poohbahs many many years.

You're probably right there and that's exactly what's wrong with this NJ situation and what stinks about the whole lobbyist system. So, by definition, there's no such thing as....

...a good lobbyist...

 

[brianman]

You advocated it right here where you made a statement about what's "better".

If I can't use the word "better" when describing a philosophical argument without you jumping to assuming I'm advocating something, then please just stop reading my posts going forward. We have a significant language barrier that isn't worth either of our time.

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Raising a challenge to a law isn't asking for a federal response. It's addressing a narrowly focused question. No laws change if Tesla loses. There's no gamble as the court doesn't suddenly sit down and write laws mandating franchises.

Asking for a federal response, that'd be more akin to the petitions that were going around, so if you're worried about a provoking a federal response that horse has left the barn.

You have far more confidence that "A only affects B" than I do. We should probably leave it at that.

 

[ckessel]

If I can't use the word "better" when describing a philosophical argument without you jumping to assuming I'm advocating something, then please just stop reading my posts going forward. We have a significant language barrier that isn't worth either of our time.

You expressed subjective opinion on the worthiness of legal approaches Tesla could use in a public forum for others to read.

That's the definition of advocating. to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument; recommend publicly:

 

[eAdopter]

Does anyone think the residents of New Jersey will tolerate being excluded from the opportunity to purchase Tesla products? I think not. Tesla should just sit back and laugh while the morons running NJ fight…and lose.