Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Ok, so I read Elon's blog post, and it seems to me that if I lived in NJ, I could still order a Model S online and have it delivered to an NJ address.

If the registration paperwork is the hassle… maybe an NJ Tesla owner's group could put together a packet of forms and a HOWTO document for new buyers :)
 
Ok, so I read Elon's blog post, and it seems to me that if I lived in NJ, I could still order a Model S online and have it delivered to an NJ address.

If the registration paperwork is the hassle… maybe an NJ Tesla owner's group could put together a packet of forms and a HOWTO document for new buyers :)

Good idea OR the TM people who staff the two NJ galleries could do it. I doubt that would classify as 'selling' a car. OR TM could have a dedicated page on their web site (order page, triggered by zip code) for each state where they have this type of problem with direct sales.
 
Good Times ! Hard to believe what I just saw/heard. The over arching undeniable plain truth here is that EVERYBODY HATES car dealers AND service AND the whole dealership experience. Just thinking about it makes my skin crawl. If they didn't own politicians, they would be gone already. :biggrin: Thanks again, Elon. GO Go Tesla!

It's kind of a toss up between the dealership experience and an IRS audit.

- - - Updated - - -

If the registration paperwork is the hassle… maybe an NJ Tesla owner's group could put together a packet of forms and a HOWTO document for new buyers :)

Assuming that registration is similar to Texas, what happens is that Tesla sends you the paperwork and you take it down to the tax office. Takes about 30 minutes, 20 of which are waiting in line.
 
Are there any lawyers on here with an understanding of Constitutional challenges to state law in Federal courts? I understand it's probably costly and complex but what are the chances of picking the most extreme of these state laws and setting up a test case in Federal court to go after all these state laws on the basis of the dormant commerce clause?

It seems like one of the most fundamental aspects of the Constitution was as a remedy to states passing tariffs and other restrictions on interstate commerce under the articles of confederation. The auto industry is an icon of global and interstate commerce. The dormant interstate commerce clause is the principal that regulation of IC is reserved to the Federal Government explicitly and even areas that it has not chosen to act to regulate are dormant aspects of it's authority not areas the states are free to act in.

What are the chances of striking down all these state laws for good as unconstitutional?
 
Wow, just listened to Appleton saying that a manufacturer wouldn't handle safety recalls and it was important for something where consumer safety was at play to have a middleman to handle ... medical device recalls are ALL ultimately handled by the manufacturer. He's full of, umm, oil.

:)
 
I totally agree, but Elon is CEO should express the opinion in a better way...dealership is useless to first go and many things in America.... stop buying from them, but that's not how things work...

Insurance of all kinds is scam and what not, but I will not go off topic.
 
For those that didn't see "All In with Chris Hayes" and genius Jim Appleton:

http://www.msnbc.com/all

Links are at the bottom for today's (3/14/14) show. There are actually several segments covering the Tesla story.

Action gets coverage. I forwarded a heads up to Chris Hayes when this started, I'm sure I wasn't the only one but it's nice to see it getting national in-depth coverage.

I felt sorry for Jim Appleton, he was struggling with a losing argument and I think he knew it. Personally I think he hit rock bottom when he suggested that GM was an example of being financially motivated to avoid their dangerous recall issue.
 
If anyone is looking for serious ammunition about why laws that protect franchised dealerships are bad for consumers (but good for dealers), please read this article published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives by Francine Lafontaine and Fiona Scott Morton. Dr. Lafontaine is Professor of Business at the U Michigan (Ann Arbor) business school; Dr. Morton is Professor of Economics at the Yale University business school. Dr. Morton recently returned to Yale, having served for several years as Deputy Assistant Attorney General for Economics at the Antitrust Division of the U.S. Department.

Some notable quotes:

Great resource for all, Thanks for posting
 
If Christie is serious about running, this is a position he'll have to reverse, or he'll get clobbered by any opponent... on so many levels. It may not be an election breaker, but it will make him look even worse as it gets discussed out in the open.

No win for him now.
 
If Christie is serious about running, this is a position he'll have to reverse, or he'll get clobbered by any opponent... on so many levels. It may not be an election breaker, but it will make him look even worse as it gets discussed out in the open.

No win for him now.


We know how he is going to play it, when the legislature passes he will just say "This was my goal all along, to motivate the assembly to fix this issue into law".
 
Sometime, in the not too distant future, the car dealers and their lobby groups will look back at this wishing they left Tesla alone. Tesla, barely a blip on the radar compared to the US auto market, selling its electric cars in malls wasn't a really big threat to their bottom line. Even in 5-6 years, selling a couple hundred thousand cars in the US, it would have only been an annoyance to the dealers at most.

While I am not an expert on the US constitution, from what I read from it, from what I understand of it, these local laws go against the very spirit of it - freedom of enterprise, freedom of commerce, freedom of the individual and all. I would not be surprised if pretty soon there would be a lawsuit on a federal level, demanding they rule such laws unconstitutional and make all of them shatter at once, overnight. One can understand special rules, restrictions around hazardous materials, pharmaceuticals, guns, but cars? As long as they meet the safety regulations enforced by the NHTSA and the like, a car is no different from other expensive consumer products.

If they just left Tesla alone, I doubt GM, Ford and the like would have gone against their established dealer networks, try to buy them out or build out a competing nation-wide network from nothing in the financial state they are in. But if these laws will crumble under a Supreme Court ruling, some may be tempted - which will be the beginning of the end for them.
 
Last edited:
@mrdoubleb -- You're right about the spirit of the Commerce Clause, which is why NJCAR is scrambling to position this debate and as a "health and safety" issue. There's a fair bit of precedent for states regulating the sale of products to ensure health and safety. It's a weak hand, but NJCAR's lawyers have probably identified that it's the only legal argument that has a chance in the courts.
 
Ok, so I read Elon's blog post, and it seems to me that if I lived in NJ, I could still order a Model S online and have it delivered to an NJ address.

If the registration paperwork is the hassle… maybe an NJ Tesla owner's group could put together a packet of forms and a HOWTO document for new buyers :)

Ok, for about the sixteenth time in this thread, the ONLY thing that changes in New Jersey is that Tesla can't actively sell their product in their stores (now "galleries"). EVERYTHING ELSE STAYS THE SAME. It's legal to own a Tesla in NJ. It's legal to drive a Tesla in NJ. It's legal to buy (online) a Tesla in NJ, and finally, it's still perfectly legal to register a Tesla in NJ just like any other car.

The ONLY difference is people in NJ (residents or not) can't walk into a Tesla STORE and ORDER/BUY a car.
 
Ok, for about the sixteenth time in this thread, the ONLY thing that changes in New Jersey is that Tesla can't actively sell their product in their stores (now "galleries"). EVERYTHING ELSE STAYS THE SAME. It's legal to own a Tesla in NJ. It's legal to drive a Tesla in NJ. It's legal to buy (online) a Tesla in NJ, and finally, it's still perfectly legal to register a Tesla in NJ just like any other car.

The ONLY difference is people in NJ (residents or not) can't walk into a Tesla STORE and ORDER/BUY a car.

Will they be allowed to go to a Tesla gallery in New Jersey and test drive a Model S?