Tesla say the logs show ...

[msnow]

Logs are not 100% trustworthy, they are also created by the car's computer. If sensors are detecting the pedal is pressed, the car would accelerate and logs would show that the pedal is pressed. But there is no way to know/prove that the pedal is actually pressed or not, unless the owner have a camera pointed to pedals.
My point is; even if there are redundant sensors, logs may not be 100% true. But Tesla is using 'logs' as an easy getaway ticket.

You lost me on this one. If the logs show the go pedal was pressed why isn't that proof?

 

[xborg]

You lost me on this one. If the logs show the go pedal was pressed why isn't that proof?

Maybe sensors was faulty and reporting that the pedal was pressed. Logs would only show what sensors have detected.
Or maybe the algorithm that is calculating the pressure has a bug, and it causes misinterpretation of sensor output.
(Or maybe there was a physical fault.)
Of course, there is no way for us to know, all I'm saying that these are possible.

Toyota has history of unintended accelerations. They always blamed users first. Besides from sticky gas pedals and bad floor mats, they have a case that they couldn't find the problem and blamed user of pressing the gas pedal instead of break. But further investigation showed that Toyota's code base is a mess and has a bug in their car's software. These slides is a nice: summary https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf

Thinking about Tesla cars' bugs and software complexity of the system, in addition to engineers who are working overtime in a stressful environment, I may as well guess that Tesla's code quality is not good.
Elon Musk stated a few weeks ago that they are working 7 days a week. They've found a bug just a few days before the release and tried to fix it in a few days, during holiday period! Sorry, but an engineering team that is doing overtime all day time and working during holiday period can cause lots of bugs. It's not a good thing, people shouldn't applause Elon Musk, they should be afraid since Tesla is rushing such an important piece of software that may cause lives.

 

[ecobon]

I don't question TSLA's integrity with regards to what they find in the logs (what it actually states in RAW form), yet. I do question how these logs are construed and if there are multiple ways to construe said logs given various uncertainties and unknowns. Logs can tell not just a story, but many different stories depending how they are interpreted and re-conveyed to others. Unknowns can be simple things as previously mentioned in this thread as sensors failing and incorrectly reporting/logging or not reporting at all.

TSLA is a public corporation with a strong focus on shareholder equity in both the short and long-term. Then further down the list is to make friends and get Likes.

I have yet to hear or read about an instance where TSLA is willing to share the RAW log files unless coerced with litigation by the owner/driver of the vehicle. I am not even sure if the owner is actually privy to the telemetry data that their vehicle generates. My guess is that they are not privy to it unless a subpoena is issued.

Not to toss TSLA in a bad light, but everyone needs to be more realistic with our capitalistic ways and be aware that our best interests are not always a company's first priority. If there was an incident that I was involved in, I might be more inclined to hold my vehicle and NOT release the vehicle and/or its accessibility to the logs if it could be detrimental to my cause, if possible. ex-TSLA employees that can read and interpret those logs would be nice to know.

 

[PRJIM]

Tesla is not alone in having "logs" google FMVSS 563 EDR (Event Data Recorder) These are prevalent in many many cars nowadays. GM/Onstar had this 10+ years ago

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tesla is not alone in having "logs" google FMVSS 563 EDR (Event Data Recorder) These are prevalent in many many cars nowadays. GM/Onstar had this 10+ years ago

I doubt anyone is disputing that or criticizing the existence of logs. The question is, can we trust Tesla's public statements on the matter (and to a lesser extent should Tesla be making such statements in public about customer events in the first place).

Just now we are discovering Tesla's response to the Launch Mode counter issue may have been extremely misleading, for example. Had we just taken them by their public statement, we would have come to completely different conclusion than is now emerging:

Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

The question is, could the same happen regarding a public statement made (for PR reasons) about customer logs? It seems like a valid concern.

 

[PRJIM]

the point is Tesla uses a proprietary system to store their logs which does not comply with FMVSS 563. Through the legal discovery process owners should have the right to examine their own logs. I doubt anyone has challenged Tesla on this.

 

[timk225]

Some people have too much time on their hands to over-micro-analyze these things while sitting around waiting for their Model 3.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Some people have too much time on their hands to over-micro-analyze these things while sitting around waiting for their Model 3.

Except mostly I see on this thread old faces with vested interests in their current Model Ss and Xs... and most importantly, lots of historical and current data on how Tesla the company operates.

Reading Tesla PR accurately is an art that takes practice. Novices be warned.