Ok well, going back to the OP.... while he might have chosen a substandard example that qualifies as window dressing, there is a ton of examples across multiple areas (safety, comfort, infomatics, etc) where Tesla is far far behind. I want Tesla to succeed, but once the other luxury EVs (finally!) hit the market, Tesla is going to have a tough time competing if they don't up their game. Given the option of a 90K Taycan vs. a 90K Model S, the Tesla becomes a really hard sell as it exists today.
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Tesla tech is great, but other companies are starting to push
- Thread starter bandido
- Start date
Ok well, going back to the OP.... while he might have chosen a substandard example that qualifies as window dressing, there is a ton of examples across multiple areas (safety, comfort, infomatics, etc) where Tesla is far far behind. I want Tesla to succeed, but once the other luxury EVs (finally!) hit the market, Tesla is going to have a tough time competing if they don't up their game. Given the option of a 90K Taycan vs. a 90K Model S, the Tesla becomes a really hard sell as it exists today.
Brian-MS90D
Member
All you have to rely on for your argument is pure speculation / future prediction. That's it. You don't know what features the Taycan will have, you don't know when it will be released, and you don't know what it will sell for. On top of it, you're using that speculation to conclude that Tesla sales will suffer.
Going on observable facts only, no other company/vehicles in history have generated the demand that Tesla has - - not even close! The successes are countless from the backlog of reservations, to direct sales, to continued increasing sales numbers on the outdated Model S.
The Model S is so outdated and old now that it SHOULD be suffering significant reduction in sales (if one is to apply historic automotive industry experience), but sales are increasing. I find your argument that Tesla sales will begin to suffer in 1 to 4 years very unconvincing and not based in any observable facts.
You're not going to get much understanding here OP. This is largely a forum full of people that defended the "minimalist" interior of the original Model S, touting things like the lack of a center console or any kind of storage space as "upgrades" from their old ICE cars. I've watched people defend the horrible music interface, terrible low grade HID headlights, the missing center console, crappy seats, etc going on 4 years now. It is what it is. I'm on the Maserati forums because I have a Ghibli and I made the mistake of telling those guys that I think my Tesla is better built than my Ghibli and I got ROCKED with negative responses. I mean just straight up mocked. There's something about the human ego that forces people to defend their decisions purchases.
The truth of the matter is my Tesla IS better built than my Ghibli. The Ghibli was widely panned for having a bunch of Chrysler parts bin crap sprinkled in the interior. And the other truth is that the Model S falls way short in pretty much every luxury category. And we're not talking frivolous stuff either. I oft find myself shopping for another 2014+ BMW 535D. I love the smoothness, speed and low maintenance of the Tesla but the BMW had a real interior. It has a color heads up display. It had real, nice leather. It had a surround view camera which in LA is not a gimmick at all. Not even close. It had LED anti-dazzle headlights that stay in high beam mode at all times but can move both up and down and left and right to create a tunnel of low beam light that tracks the car in front of you. Not a gimmick. And it had a real interior. I find myself gravitating to my Q5 or my Ghibli often because their interiors are just nicer places to be. The Q5 is both better designed and better built and the Ghibli is just better designed and Chrysler parts bin stuff or not, where it counts it feels nicer than the Tesla unless you start touching switchgear. lol.
This is a shortcoming Tesla absolutely MUST address because I'll be honest... the moment there's an all electric BMW 5 series with BMW 5 series build quality and BMW 5 series features I'd jettison the Tesla quickly. Same goes with an A8. Give me an all electric A8 or S550. I'm out. Peace out Tesla. I love you. I love Musk. I'm not a troll but I am a realist. You succeeded in moving the market to electric which means you've effectively eliminated your competitive advantage and now need to compete with the big boys in other metrics. I hope they succeed.
The truth of the matter is my Tesla IS better built than my Ghibli. The Ghibli was widely panned for having a bunch of Chrysler parts bin crap sprinkled in the interior. And the other truth is that the Model S falls way short in pretty much every luxury category. And we're not talking frivolous stuff either. I oft find myself shopping for another 2014+ BMW 535D. I love the smoothness, speed and low maintenance of the Tesla but the BMW had a real interior. It has a color heads up display. It had real, nice leather. It had a surround view camera which in LA is not a gimmick at all. Not even close. It had LED anti-dazzle headlights that stay in high beam mode at all times but can move both up and down and left and right to create a tunnel of low beam light that tracks the car in front of you. Not a gimmick. And it had a real interior. I find myself gravitating to my Q5 or my Ghibli often because their interiors are just nicer places to be. The Q5 is both better designed and better built and the Ghibli is just better designed and Chrysler parts bin stuff or not, where it counts it feels nicer than the Tesla unless you start touching switchgear. lol.
This is a shortcoming Tesla absolutely MUST address because I'll be honest... the moment there's an all electric BMW 5 series with BMW 5 series build quality and BMW 5 series features I'd jettison the Tesla quickly. Same goes with an A8. Give me an all electric A8 or S550. I'm out. Peace out Tesla. I love you. I love Musk. I'm not a troll but I am a realist. You succeeded in moving the market to electric which means you've effectively eliminated your competitive advantage and now need to compete with the big boys in other metrics. I hope they succeed.
You are spot on. AP has been a massive distraction from making the rest of the car great. Mobileye was doing just fine with their development and there was no reason to bring it in house except stubbornness. I just hope they don't continue this trend of developing cars around autonomous driving, like the Model 3 autonomous Taxi, and focus on the driver who will still be operating these cars for the foreseeable future.
The irony of a Tesla fan arguing against "future prediction" is quite thick.
At any rate......... the Taycan goes on sale next year, has an announced starting price, and has charging/range/acceleration specs announced. Could they miss the mark and fail to deliver part/all of that? Yes of course.
PS - while global sales increases YOY, US sales of the Model S dropped by ~10% from 2016-2017.
Yes, perhaps other car companies are doing better. However, the Tesla you buy today is but a fraction of the Tesla that you are eventually going to get. The platform has so many cameras and sensors, that all the features other companies have, will be introduced through updates and then some. Remember everyone was complaining about not having rain sensors in their MX? Now they are complaining about blind spot warning. It will come. Elon mentioned something about version 9 being released in August. Perhaps we have to wait till November but all kind of goodies will come.
Tesla's were never made to have the best carpet or softest seats. If you want those go to Bentley or some other car manufacturer.
Tesla's were never made to have the best carpet or softest seats. If you want those go to Bentley or some other car manufacturer.
I really like the 3D surround view especially for parking, definitely something Tesla should have in their cars. The value of being able to SEE your car or at least whats around your car is very important to me. I cannot tell you how paranoid I was when I first got my Model S to know whether some idiot parked too close to it in the parking lot or who was around it, this would definitely help my anxiety...but more importantly being able to see if you are backing into a parking spot in a straight line...specifically for superchargers is also useful as the backup lines don't always line up as expected.
At the end of the day the sentiment that a lot are conveying here is valid, Tesla needs to continually innovate beyond just the electric drivetrain, Autopilot, and new rain sensors...they should focus on interior advancements that will separate it from its competitors, such as the new HVAC in the M3 that is both useful and innovative.
At the end of the day the sentiment that a lot are conveying here is valid, Tesla needs to continually innovate beyond just the electric drivetrain, Autopilot, and new rain sensors...they should focus on interior advancements that will separate it from its competitors, such as the new HVAC in the M3 that is both useful and innovative.
I'm a staunch Elon Musk apologist an while I won't go so far as others do in saying he's a liar or disingenuous, at best it can be said that he is absolutely horrible at estimating how long it will take to accomplish any specific task. And with AP1 he lucked out because the rest of the car got so much better that I think most people decide to upgrade anyhow which left significantly less people to complain about their promised AP1 features and second hand buyers kind of knew what they were getting into with respect to what AP1 could and could not do.
But history is repeating itself now. AP2 was released and we were told we'd start seeing self driving features within a year. Didn't happen. Then we were told we'd see a cross country, fully autonomous trip before the end of 2017. Didn't happen. Not only didn't it happen but there's been nary a word from Tesla about that trip a full half year past the promised date. If you any confidence whatsoever that Tesla is going to make good on even a fraction of it's full self driving promises for AP2/ 2.5 cars in the next couple of years I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. It isn't happening. The whole thing was a bluff. They needed to keep selling cars after the Mobileye fallout and this was the way to do it. Promise something BETTER down the road. Only the goal post keeps moving now. If I was the lessee of a 2016 AP2 car that paid for FSD I'd be hella pissed right about now.
There's a big difference between premium and the "best" and you're lying to yourself if you don't see that. The Nappa leather in my 5 series was not the best but it was loads better than what's in my Tesla. And how long have people been complaining about the cheap floor mats in their $140,000 cars. That stuff is totally acceptable when you're the scrappy upstart and your product is way better than others in very specific ways but the moment competition starts rolling out, and we're not talking Chevy Bolts either, they're in for a rude awakening.
jeffro01
Active Member
I see, so the giant center screen which no other car can even touch doesn't factor into your comment? There isn't anything in a Chevy on the market that is better than Tesla from a tech standpoint. The possible exception to this would be CarPlay...
Jeff
Cheburashka
Active Member
The giant center screen is nice but it's actual usefulness is marginal, especially when you're comparing with Android/CarPlay systems. The 10"+ screens in the newer Chevys are also not small by any means.
jeffro01
Active Member
LOL... That's what I thought... You pick the one thing Tesla doesn't have and then use that thing to suggest it's behind despite it's obvious advantages in the other direction... LOL
Jeff
Cheburashka
Active Member
The Tesla screen could be 150" for all I care, that's not going to make it more useful. You still can't use Waze like you can on virtually every other new car today, and the phone integration sucks..
T34ME
Active Member
SpudLime
Active Member
No you can’t use waze on any car. iOS 12 isn’t out yet. iOS 12 lets navigation be added to car play. So until that comes out, waze can only be used on your phone or iPad.
-senior Waze beta tester.
Cheburashka
Active Member
What?
Waze in Android Auto works fine for me. Brings it up on the car's screen. I don't know about iOS, sounds like more Apple restrictions.
SpudLime
Active Member
Correct. But the android use in cars is minimal. Just saying your statement about waze being used a lot in cars is false.
Cheburashka
Active Member
The use of Android in cars is minimal? How so? More people have Android phones than Apple phones. Both Android Auto and CarPlay are supported in GM cars, I imagine it's similar for other manufacturers too.
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