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Tesla tech is great, but other companies are starting to push

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It’s in the stats. Number of cars in us that have AA or CP is not that high yet. Number of android folks that use waze that then use AA. Not that high. I hear this from WAZE staff all the time in meetings and gatherings and in the internal forums.

Also doesn’t AA only use horizontal mode? WAZE develops more towards vertical view which is why you have less options on the screen in horizontal mode.

All the above makes your statement not true. I have nothing else to add to the back and forth. Just wanted it to be known that Waze not working on the screen is not a variable to consider.
 
Yeah ok, it's not a variable to consider based on the number of cars that have AA or CP? Those things are new and the number of cars with them will increase substantially in the coming years. I bet that more cars have Android Auto than total amount of Teslas manufactured. With that, more apps will come out that will take advantage of Android Auto and Apple CarPlay while Tesla owners are stuck dealing with the half-broken/half-working POS software on the Tesla touchscreen.

Also, there aren't necessarily less options on Android Auto in Waze that I've noticed. It works the exact same way as on the phone, but formatted for a different screen.
 
Would love to have 360 birdseye on my Tesla. I'm sure we will some day. I would prioritize that feature seemingly how Tesla has. Not critical. That said, to minimize the value and perceived value of Tesla's large screen is a joke. It takes someone about 5 milliseconds to comment on how awesome the screen is when they get in my car. Then they say, "that backup camera is amazing."
 
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How about rear cross traffic alerts?
Or blind spot monitoring?

What about them? My Tesla has blind spot monitoring, sure it doesn't have the dot on the mirror but it works and it's accurate. I'm not even sure I know what "rear cross traffic alerts" even are...??? I'm sure it's a real thing as I've seen it referenced before but I fail to see what it's purpose is?

Jeff
 
the things Tesla are strong on are difficult for other auto manufacturers to do (in-house battery manufacture/supercharging/the whole OTA security thing/100K+ fleet of AP cars)

the thing other auto manufacturers are strong on are easy for Tesla to do (add trinkets)

Tesla as a still small player can only do so much at once and are rightly focussing on the Model3 to generate cashflow. With that in place many more things can follow.

The one problem that Tesla has is quality, particularly on the MS/MX. Much of this unfortunately needs to be (re)designed in to a six year old model.

Memories of sub-standard quality linger and for me this is now the #1 thing that Tesla must address in time for the competition when it arrives and then all they need to do is add trinkets.

It must be repeated however that all the competitors added together have not got even close to Tesla's likely numbers for 2019 and likely beyond, so Tesla still have quite a bit of time.

My own view is that BEVs are causing huge headaches for traditional manufacturers not because of the technology but because of profitability. The cleverest thing Tesla have done is produce the Model3 at what appears to be a very decent gross profit by integrating the battery supply chain (eg Lithium mine near the Gigafactory a coincidence - I don't think so), highly automated assembly and clever design for manufacture.
Remember the other auto manufacturers are only offering small volumes so far - well guess what their profits will be under pressure too, they will hide this for some time but sooner of later it will impact them and that is when the big failures/mergers will come, also driven by China's determination to lead the world in auto manufacture in coming decades.
 
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My own view is that BEVs are causing huge headaches for traditional manufacturers not because of the technology but because of profitability. The cleverest thing Tesla have done is produce the Model3 at what appears to be a very decent gross profit by integrating the battery supply chain (eg Lithium mine near the Gigafactory a coincidence - I don't think so), highly automated assembly and clever design for manufacture.
Remember the other auto manufacturers are only offering small volumes so far - well guess what their profits will be under pressure too, they will hide this for some time but sooner of later it will impact them and that is when the big failures/mergers will come, also driven by China's determination to lead the world in auto manufacture in coming decades.

Good timing: Tesla Signs Agreement for Shanghai Factory
 
I have a lot of respect for Musk and Tesla and what they are planning to do, but I remember when I initially got into a test drive of the Model S I was kind of disappointed at the interior. I came from having a Porsche and my Porsche felt like a $200k interior. My Model S does not and I paid $160k for it not including PPF and new wheels which added another $14k. I love the drive more than my Porsche, but the interior needs work in my opinion. The luxury add-ons, which are pretty sparse in the Model S, also need work. If the Taycan is anything like my Carrera GTS and VW actually builds an extensive supercharging network, I can see myself testing a Taycan. I don't want to support VW because of their cheating ways but the Model S interior leaves something to be desired for me.
 
Why is this even a discussion?
I disagree that Tesla's success will hinge on the discussed luxury comforts and toys. In support of my opinion, I point to the Model 3 reservation backlog (unprecedented in industry) and increasing sales for "old" design vehicles Model S (and soon X). Is there any other car as old as the Model S that still has increasing sales?
The EV demand is increasing while there is still little choice in viable BEV's (200+mile range). I point you to the fact that Bolt (the only other 200+ mile EV) just increased its production by 20% due to unexpected demand. Today it's either Tesla or Bolt. Once there is more choice, Tesla will have to complete on other features.
 
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I couldn't disagree more... FSD is the future of transportation and whoever can get there first will have a huge market advantage. Sure, some people "want" to drive but most of us would rather kick back and take a nap...
Sure, however Tesla is way behind on that. See what Waymo cars can do, or even Uber. Then compare to what Tesla is able to do today.

Tesla is a lot like Apple in this regard in that they engineer for the future even if the consumer isn't quite ready for that future yet...
When did Apple ever ship unfinished products? Steve Jobs would never let an unfinished, unpolished product go out. Today, sure, Apple is going down the path of "must ship by holiday season" but even so they don't charge thousands for vaporware features. Elon sold us on AP1 which will "find you anywhere on private property", what he delivered is summon with fine print which is "as long as anywhere is in a straight line out of your garage, within 40 feet, and you are watching to make sure the car doesn't hit anything". There are more examples of Elon selling a grand vision and delivering a joke. Show me when Apple did things like this please.
 
But there's a segment of folks for whom things like heated gear-shift knobs and powered headrests seem to be deal breakers.
I'd settle for actually functional blind spot monitoring, 21st century phone integration, and a car which doesn't change it's behavior and tries to kill me because of over-the-air update which didn't get tested well (happened to me when an update changed the "defrost" button to "frost" button - I found that out at a very inopportune moment driving on a dark, winding, undivided, rural highway and hitting a cloud of humidity) or some ill-conceived new feature (costed me $600 to fix a broken mirror because Tesla decided that they will force unfold the mirrors as soon as the car starts moving - something they fixed in the very next release but not before my wife tore the mirror off on a concrete wall - somewhere where she parked many times before and never had the car unfold the mirror she just folded).
 
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The Model S is so outdated and old now that it SHOULD be suffering significant reduction in sales (if one is to apply historic automotive industry experience), but sales are increasing. I find your argument that Tesla sales will begin to suffer in 1 to 4 years very unconvincing and not based in any observable facts.
The choice for a viable BEV (200+mile range) is Tesla Model S, Model X, soon Model 3 (still no immediate stock), and Chevy Bolt. BEV demand is growing, hence the increased sales. Tesla basically has a monopoly on 200+ mile BEVs, so they can get away with things. Stick an ICE engine in a Model S and see how many you'd sell at the same price.
 
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I'm a staunch Elon Musk apologist an while I won't go so far as others do in saying he's a liar or disingenuous, at best it can be said that he is absolutely horrible at estimating how long it will take to accomplish any specific task. And with AP1 he lucked out because the rest of the car got so much better that I think most people decide to upgrade anyhow which left significantly less people to complain about their promised AP1 features and second hand buyers kind of knew what they were getting into with respect to what AP1 could and could not do.
You seem to contradict yourself, here. You say the only issue Elon has is that he can't estimate the time it takes to complete, but he lucked out with AP1. So wait a minute, you think there is actually an amount of time after which AP1 will do what Elon promised it will do? Say "find you anywhere on private property", what is the actual time that you think it will take to get there, 1 year, 10 years, 100 years, a billion years?

If you any confidence whatsoever that Tesla is going to make good on even a fraction of it's full self driving promises for AP2/ 2.5 cars in the next couple of years I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. It isn't happening. The whole thing was a bluff.
I see, so not a liar or disingenuous but a bluffer then? Can you clarify the difference between a bluffer and a liar? ;)

Btw, my personal opinion is that he's not a lier, or a bluffer, or disingenuous. I think he's a very talented guy who got drunk on his own success and has mostly lost touch with reality. He honestly believes the things he promises, even though sometimes a very rudimentary analysis would show any logical person that it can't be done (how long do you think it would have taken to figure out that ultrasonic sensors don't work so well in high wind, like when you drive 75mph on a highway, or that cameras without wipers will get dirty and useless very quickly in bad weather (just watch your rear camera when it rains) so there is no way in hell FSD can rely on them). He's accomplished a lot in his life, but right now his ego has grown so large he's promising the actually impossible. I wouldn't be surprised if Elon announced that he will invent perpetual motion machine to make all Tesla's the greenest cars in the universe, and that they are putting a bunch of rotating magnets and other hardware in the latest cars to make the car capable or perpetual motion and they will enable it as soon as they figure out the small detail of software to control it all. Image that, never have to refuel again, save the Earth from greenhouse emissions and provide human kind with unlimited energy! Praise Elon the hero for saving the planet and human kind! Something tells me he would actually have fans that fall for it and defend it. I bet the description for the perpetual motion would include savings in fuel with a footprint that software needs to complete extensive validation and government approval first, but then you drive it for free for 15 years minimum, so the car is really free after savings.
 
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It’s in the stats. Number of cars in us that have AA or CP is not that high yet. Number of android folks that use waze that then use AA. Not that high. I hear this from WAZE staff all the time in meetings and gatherings and in the internal forums.

Also doesn’t AA only use horizontal mode? WAZE develops more towards vertical view which is why you have less options on the screen in horizontal mode.

All the above makes your statement not true. I have nothing else to add to the back and forth. Just wanted it to be known that Waze not working on the screen is not a variable to consider.
I think you are confusing things here. Just because not many people may be using waze on Android integrated in their cars, doesn't mean it cannot be used. Also, considering what you said about iOS, the number of Android waze users in the cars is infinitely greater than iOS users using it with car integration, since the latter is 0.
 
What about them? My Tesla has blind spot monitoring, sure it doesn't have the dot on the mirror but it works and it's accurate.
Then you must have the only AP1 Model S that it works (your sig says 2015 Model S90D). Or maybe you just haven't driven a car where it actually works. I've had AP1 and AP2 Model S equipped with Tesla's "blind spot warning" and drive a number of loaners, and will tell you it doesn't work reliably at all. At highway speeds it's 50% accurate at best. Even Tesla took the feature out of their website, and never implemented the mirror light, which was wired in for AP1 cars by the way.

I'm not even sure I know what "rear cross traffic alerts" even are...??? I'm sure it's a real thing as I've seen it referenced before but I fail to see what it's purpose is?
You could google it, or just view the video below:
Audi Q7 - Animation rear cross-traffic assist - Audi MediaTV
 
well Audi and BMW aren't looking so good for reliability according to the latest JD Power survey (UK), Jaguar, Volvo and Range Rover not exactly stellar either.
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