Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[KBF]

Half the story. While one party historically has dominated interest, the other party is showing increased rates of adoption compared to historical norms.

EVs are winning over largely conservative areas as buyers look to save money

At least Democrats and Republicans are beginning to agree on one thing – EVs can save you money (and the...

electrek.co

Helps considerably that those red states are pulling in the majority of the battery+EV jobs now, not the blue states.

In my current part of Canada, few people with money are "environmentalists" (most don't care about climate change: either apathetic or tired of rich celebrities/politicians telling them they're to blame and need to pay more environmental taxes while hypocritically flying around the world in jets) - there is little 'old money' here, mostly business owners (we're just getting into 2nd generation wealth now as boomers pass on). The reason why Tesla uptake is increasing quickly here is primarily TCO - it just makes more financial sense for the middle+ class to buy EV's. High gas prices have taken their toll, inflation means people start looking at running costs of everything.

Not surprisingly, gov't legislation like "no new ICE sales after 2035" or whatever actually makes adoption harder - coercion is unnecessary and counterproductive... People here see right through the virtue signalling and it makes them more stubborn about rights and freedoms. I always surprise those people when I agree with them that the legislation is nonsense, and EV subsidies are terrible - and then I tell them that the gov't absolutely needs to remove EV subsidies the moment after they stop subsidizing the oil and gas industry to the tune of billions... That gets their attention (and usually, after reflection, agreement).

 

[TN Mtn Man]

All of them. But in context, refreshed Model 3 isn’t getting a hatchback.

Sadly, I suspect you're right. A small sedan is much less useful and functional than a small CUV. And much less in demand by customers (US anyway) which is why most manufacturers have dropped them. Once the "Model 2" comes out, presumably as a small CUV, perhaps even a little smaller than the 3, I suspect it's life will be somewhat limited.

 

[AudubonB]

Like this?

View attachment 960356

I don’t live in a snowy area so this is not a problem for me. This was an early storm at the Grand Canyon a couple years ago. Of course, if I had had any common sense I would have brushed it off before opening the trunk! (Meow)

Alaskans do what comes naturally: the order is (1) brush (2) open car. It appears others alter that order. (I have presented this pic before, haven’t I?):

PS: Hope all noted she's ready to give each of you a nice big smooch.

 

[TN Mtn Man]

Like this?

View attachment 960356

I don’t live in a snowy area so this is not a problem for me. This was an early storm at the Grand Canyon a couple years ago. Of course, if I had had any common sense I would have brushed it off before opening the trunk! (Meow)

Just curious, is the MY any better in that regard? It still has a pretty flat, sloping hatchback which will hold snow. Unlike a conventional CUV with a more vertical liftgate that better tends to shed snow.

 

[Buckminster]

Thinking of creating a dedicated hatchback thread. Or maybe "lift back - the lost years"...

 

[Unpilot]

You know what really pisses me off? The fact that Tesla has not made a snow deflection machine for all their cars.

Because Elon has not made a snow deflection machine for all his cars I will never buy another Tesla./s

 

[Krugerrand]

Ah, about opening your mouth without knowing what you're talking about (looking at Elon again). But sometimes Elon gets things right; I won't deny and not give credit where is it appropriate. Same with green, I think we can agree that he has hits and misses, but my view on him is that he has knowledge and gotten a number of things right.

As I stated, and which people keep missing, is that sometimes we need to separate the two and look to the facts at times. Apparently people are so willing to do that for Elon (to the point its scary) but oh no, can't have anyone else have emotional outbursts when trying to criticize Elon as that seems to somehow magically invalidate everything they're saying.

It's so hilarious to assume what and who I am. I still drive a Tesla, and I still appreciate the company, but I have big concerns about Elon. Does that mean I ignore everything that Elon does and invalidate all his accomplishments? No, and I still like the company.

The discussion wasn’t ever about Elon; you made it about him. Nice change of topic. Regardless, nowhere did I say, hint at, or imply that the same shouldn’t also apply to him.

 

[H Mak]

Thinking of creating a dedicated hatchback thread. Or maybe "lift back - the lost years"...

Do it. Live a little. You're only young once

 

[SOULPEDL]

You know what really pisses me off? The fact that Tesla has not made a snow deflection machine for all their cars.

Because Elon has not made a snow deflection machine for all his cars I will never buy another Tesla./s

Meanwhile, I can't find my Cybertruck with the front shovel image. The whole truck is a snow plow! (Remove wiper first).

 

[unk45]

Vancouver is the only place in Canada where small cars are the norm.

Not really. While the giant sized pickups are major inhabitants of the top ten list everywhere in Canada, so also are the small, by North America standards, cars. In the top 10 vehicles sold in Canada in 2022 were Elantra, Kona, Civic and Corolla. They were not THE highest, but within top 10.

10 most popular cars in Canada, leading sales in 2022

Ford F-150 remains Canada's most sold vehicle. Toyota RAV4 is popular among crossovers, and Toyota Corolla takes Honda Civic's crown.

driving.ca

As is the global norm, large city residents tend towards smaller ones, so Montreal, Toronto (NOT GTA), etc tend small. Of course Vancouver is a major case, not least by the large population of newer residents accustomed to smaller vehicles from their former congested cities.

Nearly all the reported data tends towards means rather than modes. Doing that makes Canada appear quite similar to Texas, but it is not, precisely because of urban area population density. That same tendency prevails in many markets, which understates major economic opportunity.

When dealing with BEV data, and Tesla in particular, it is easy to imagine little opportunity in many places by concentrating on means. How many people were surprised that Tesla attracted so many orders in Thailand, known as small vehicle territory? What most people cannot conceive is that a very appealing small vehicle can attract both middle income people and wealthy ones, predominately with packaging and feature differences typically with 'Hot Hatch' performance features. That applies almost everywhere in greater or lesser degree.

Tesla keeps redefining it's addressable market as their geographical and versions are enhanced coupled with lower prices. The US, Canada and much of the world will end out buying the newest 'Model 2' variants in huge numbers. For ancient reference points I offer Ford Falcon and Mustang in 1960's, The VW GTI and it's imitators later. I remember very well observing conservative older mammoth Chevrolet/Ford etc drivers buying Mustangs and learning to love smaller compelling vehicles, with much success in very well equipped high margin versions. Will Canadians give up F-150 etc for compelling smaller options?

We will know for certain in three years or so. These ones will outsell Model Y by 'mass quantities'.

 

[unk45]

Sadly, I suspect you're right. A small sedan is much less useful and functional than a small CUV. And much less in demand by customers (US anyway) which is why most manufacturers have dropped them. Once the "Model 2" comes out, presumably as a small CUV, perhaps even a little smaller than the 3, I suspect it's life will be somewhat limited.

Ah, but they have not dropped them! Just in the US mostly. Preferences change. I'm not suggesting that a Model 3 Hatch will come in the US, but don't be surprised if one arrives in China, adding to the potential of LWB China Only version. (was that actually launched?)
tesla-model-3-long-wheelbase-china

 

[navguy12]

Now, Ford joins the likes of VW and Stelantis with a statement of how the pace of EV adoption will be slow.

Ford CEO predicts ‘pace of EV adoption will be slower than expected’ in the near term

Ford CEO Jim Farley recently predicted that EV adoption will be slower than expected. The automaker also recently released its Q2 results.

www.teslarati.com

It seems they are unable to further qualify such statements with pertinent data. They should be perfectly honest with themselves and say,

The pace of EV adoption will be slow...
for manufacturers who are unable to produce a compelling BEV​

IMO it’s also “unable to produce a seamless long distance travelling experience”.

A chap I was playing euchre with yesterday told me he had to give up his Chevy Bolt two years ago because of the lack of a seamless, dependable charging system for his routine long distance trips.

 

[ggr]

Mod: 3 posts deleted for blatant politics, which will never be acceptable. I think we're done with hatchbacks too. --ggr

 

[ggr]

Mod: 3 posts deleted for blatant politics, which will never be acceptable. I think we're done with hatchbacks too. --ggr

Wow, this new predictive AI stuff is really good!

 

[navguy12]

In my current part of Canada, few people with money are "environmentalists" (most don't care about climate change: either apathetic or tired of rich celebrities/politicians telling them they're to blame and need to pay more environmental taxes while hypocritically flying around the world in jets) - there is little 'old money' here, mostly business owners (we're just getting into 2nd generation wealth now as boomers pass on). The reason why Tesla uptake is increasing quickly here is primarily TCO - it just makes more financial sense for the middle+ class to buy EV's. High gas prices have taken their toll, inflation means people start looking at running costs of everything.

Not surprisingly, gov't legislation like "no new ICE sales after 2035" or whatever actually makes adoption harder - coercion is unnecessary and counterproductive... People here see right through the virtue signalling and it makes them more stubborn about rights and freedoms. I always surprise those people when I agree with them that the legislation is nonsense, and EV subsidies are terrible - and then I tell them that the gov't absolutely needs to remove EV subsidies the moment after they stop subsidizing the oil and gas industry to the tune of billions... That gets their attention (and usually, after reflection, agreement).

If the TCO argument is actually changing hearts and minds, why are concerted efforts (in the name of “freedom”) to slow the transition still thoroughly entrenched on one side of the aisle:

‘Project 2025’: plan to dismantle US climate policy for next Republican president

Rightwing groups penned a conservative wish list of proposals for the next conservative president to gut environmental protections

www.theguardian.com

 

[CatB]

Sorry to interrupt all the petty arguments with some auto investment news, albeit indirect to Tesla's potential plans in India:

BYD plans to drop $1-billion EV investment plan, informs India JV partner: Report

That link went to a google-doc survey on TMC for me.

I googled it because I wasn't sure if drop meant "shelve/punt" (it does in this case) or more along the lines of "Mic-drop" (nope!)

Exclusive: BYD tells India partner it wants to drop $1 billion EV investment plan, sources say

China's BYD has told its India joint-venture partner it would shelve plans for a new $1-billion investment to build electric cars after its investment proposal faced scrutiny from New Delhi, two people with knowledge of the discussions said.

www.reuters.com

 

[SOULPEDL]

That link went to a google-doc survey on TMC for me.

I googled it because I wasn't sure if drop meant "shelve/punt" (it does in this case) or more along the lines of "Mic-drop" (nope!)

Exclusive: BYD tells India partner it wants to drop $1 billion EV investment plan, sources say

China's BYD has told its India joint-venture partner it would shelve plans for a new $1-billion investment to build electric cars after its investment proposal faced scrutiny from New Delhi, two people with knowledge of the discussions said.

www.reuters.com

And I thought they were "dropping" 1B - like investing 1B. Tricked again...

 

[2daMoon]

What you’re calling a hatchback (Teslas) isn’t traditional in any sense and you should speak to the Europeans.

If everyone wants to have their own definition of a hatchback, carry on. But no such drastic change in design has ever happened with a Tesla vehicle refresh. You get a change in the nose, the butt, maybe new headlights and that’s it. You’re not getting some major body design change to go from the current style of lift gate to a hatchback.

I’ll be waiting for all you speculators to announce your mistaken speculation when the refresh 3 comes out and then cease to speculate in the future.

Any vehicle that allows for cargo up to the roof line to be inserted in the back, to me, is a hatchback. YMMV That is a factor I look for in vehicles, whether it be a Ford Focus or a Jeep Cherokee, the utility of that hatch in the back is something I appreciate.

As for the speculation, that wasn't me. I have no expectation of the M3 being made into a hatch. That vehicle, which can be exported to Latin America, the EU, and Asia is coming, from Mexico.

 

[thx1139]

Half the story. While one party historically has dominated interest, the other party is showing increased rates of adoption compared to historical norms.

EVs are winning over largely conservative areas as buyers look to save money

At least Democrats and Republicans are beginning to agree on one thing – EVs can save you money (and the...

electrek.co

Helps considerably that those red states are pulling in the majority of the battery+EV jobs now, not the blue states.

Want to avoid this going wide. My only reply is purchasing not red states being willing to compete for factories.

One-third of Americans would consider EV purchase - Reuters/Ipsos poll

Just over one-third of Americans would consider buying an electric vehicle for their next model, a new Reuters/Ipsos poll found.

www.reuters.com

50% of Democrats interested in EVs, 26% Republican, 27% Independents.

 

[jkirkwood001]

This link sends me to a TMC survey, huh?

Whoa, that's weird. That's an old link of mine. Makes no sense how it got copied in to the URL, I haven't had that open in months. Bug? @ggr please delete my post as it's too late for me to change it.

Done; please refer to two posts above that were not deleted for the BYD /India battery article.