Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[spacerfc]

This is an excellent survey from Tom Randall - tracking responses from actual model 3 owners over years of ownership.

Unfortunately it does confirm the massive personal brand damage that Elon has done to himself (and this is coming from Tesla owners!)

There is no brand damage, even the article admits he's now more favorable among Republicans, so he merely made his brand more bipartisan rather than catering to a single party.

 

[willow_hiller]

There is no brand damage, even the article admits he's now more favorable among Republicans, so he merely made his brand more bipartisan rather than catering to a single party.

Data visualization malpractice to omit the Y-axis labels and omit the minimum possible value on this visualization, but from the context of the rest of the survey, it runs from 5 (agree) to 1 (disagree):

So in other words, he went from an 88% approval rating among a small group of early adopters, to 59.4% approval rating among a much larger group of Tesla owners. I think that's likely to have happened regardless of what Elon did.

 

[thx1139]

There is no brand damage, even the article admits he's now more favorable among Republicans, so he merely made his brand more bipartisan rather than catering to a single party.

Seen any recent polling of interest in EVs. One party dominates in interest and it isnt the one you refer to.

 

[scaesare]

Yeah, a source cabinet has a power limit along with voltage and current. For example, 350kW could be 1000A @ 350V or 350A at 1000V. However, the pedestal cam support both maximums simultaneously.

Voltage rating is based on insulation and conducting spacing. Current rating is based on self heating. 1000A@ 400V is the same as 1000A @ 800v from a thermal perspective.

A V3 cabinet can output over 900kW when cross linked on the 880-1000V DC bus.
Tesla called out tests of ~900 Amps in the NACS documents with no liquid cooling on the vehicle's charge port.
So the pedestal can do 1MW and the current cabinet nearly that much (if linked to 2-3 others). Question is, what can the pack handle.

I didn't realize the v3 pedestals were capable of 900kW... wow.

 

[CaliBear1]

You have posted this several times now, and gotten significant pushback. It's time to post a link to what you claim Elon said, instead of just posting your claims.

Lot's of Analysts have called CT 'niche' over the past 3 years. Is that what you're misremembering? For example:



Universally, it's analysts with a 'Sell' rating that are disparaging the market potential of CT.

Anecdotal, but I have an expat Scottish buddy who worked on offshore oil rigs and drives the latest and greatest Ford Raptor with all the bells and whistles. This truck comes at a serious premium here in Thailand. He's crawling out of his skin for a top end CT. Think about that. This guy owes both his livelihood and retirement to the fossil fuel industry and he can't wait to own a CT when they finally come to Thailand. 'Nuff said.

 

[philw1776]

Anecdotal, but I have an expat Scottish buddy who worked on offshore oil rigs and drives the latest and greatest Ford Raptor with all the bells and whistles. This truck comes at a serious premium here in Thailand. He's crawling out of his skin for a top end CT. Think about that. This guy owes both his livelihood and retirement to the fossil fuel industry and he can't wait to own a CT when they finally come to Thailand. 'Nuff said.

But is he butthurt over Elon's tweets?

 

[cab]

Data visualization malpractice to omit the Y-axis labels and omit the minimum possible value on this visualization, but from the context of the rest of the survey, it runs from 5 (agree) to 1 (disagree):

View attachment 960323

So in other words, he went from an 88% approval rating among a small group of early adopters, to 59.4% approval rating among a much larger group of Tesla owners. I think that's likely to have happened regardless of what Elon did.

I can't help but wonder if owners of OTHER car brands were asked "Who is the CEO of the company that made your car?" if >2% would even know the answer. There is something to be said for the old expression "All publicity is good publicity".

 

[cliff harris]

I know of two very loud, very angry, very patronising people who poured incredible scorn on elon buying twitter, and went full-on 24/7 raging about how evil and stupid and dumb he was, how the platform was dying and not long for this world, and how it was doomed, and how they would move to mastadon with everyone else. They probably then said the same about bluesky.

I just checked. Both of them still have twitter accounts and post >20 times a day.

I'm not worried about clickbait polls trying find that people hate elon .

 

[unk45]

I think people sometimes think that cars all over the world are the same as cars in their country. Not so.
You have a hard time selling pickup trucks in the UK. You have a hard time selling cars that are not hatchbacks in the UK. You have a real hard time selling wide vehicles of any sort to people who live in old cities in western Europe. You will have one hell of a job selling anything too large anywhere in Japan.
Similarly, you wont find it easy selling a mini or a smart car in Texas.

Ultimately, if its to remain a global brand, selling 20m a year, Tesla will have to adapt its design to each locale. Different weather, different geography, different laws, different priorities and expectations really matter.

Right now, Teslas still feel like they are designed in California or Texas. Too big, too wide, and totally unprepared for bad weather. When I got my 2015 model S the fact it had no rear wiper confused the hell out of me. My 2022 model Y constantly says 'parking assist degraded' or 'cameras blocked'.

I look forward to the small tesla van, and the small urban model 2. Both would sell like crazy in Europe.

Many of us agree. We keep posting this useful insight. The only realistic hopes for such products are:
1. those that are demanded in China or designed there (remember the 'Designed in China' studio that was to have been a part of Shanghai?
2...or perhaps the prospective India facilities.
3...or the Monterrey GF having product designed for Mercosur etc.
4...or if we're lucky, all three if 'Model 2' is really a platform, not a single vehicle, so could accommodate a 'hot hatch'. a small sedan, a 'normal' sedan and a minibus, inter alia.

Despite lack of interest in such vehicles in North America, except perhaps Mexico and some parts of Canada most of the rest of the world would eagerly receive such vehicles. Further everywhere where most Toyota Corolla variants are labeled 'luxury', will be ideal candidates.

Of course in most logical recipient countries, real success will depend on building solid Supercharger, Destination Charger, Stores and Service Centers.

The next two years will be really exciting, not least because of Tesla Energy coordinated with new vehicles will allow far greater scale economies and resilience.

 

[Singuy]

Tesla Owners Have Soured on Elon Musk, But Still Love Their Model 3s

After five years on the road, we asked 5,000 customers what they thought of their cars and the Tesla brand.

www.bloomberg.com

Tesla’s Model 3 Still Holds Up After Five Years on the Road: Tesla Survey

After five years on the road, we asked 5,000 customers what they thought of their cars and the Tesla brand.

www.bloomberg.com

Tesla Autopilot Test Drivers Rate Full Self-Driving Feature: Tesla Survey

After five years on the road, we asked 5,000 customers what they thought of their cars and the Tesla brand.

www.bloomberg.com

Data visualization malpractice to omit the Y-axis labels and omit the minimum possible value on this visualization, but from the context of the rest of the survey, it runs from 5 (agree) to 1 (disagree):

View attachment 960323

So in other words, he went from an 88% approval rating among a small group of early adopters, to 59.4% approval rating among a much larger group of Tesla owners. I think that's likely to have happened regardless of what Elon did.

If correlation = causation, Tesla unit sales is directly the inverse of Elon's approval rating. So I'm gonna pull an Elon here and say "based on current trend, Elon' approval rating will be 0 by 2030 and Tesla sales will be 30M".

 

[The Accountant]

Solid US Economic data this week.
The economy is doing better than expected, consumer confidence is strong, jobs look good and inflation trending the right way.

 

[Ipcress]

Data visualization malpractice to omit the Y-axis labels and omit the minimum possible value on this visualization, but from the context of the rest of the survey, it runs from 5 (agree) to 1 (disagree):

View attachment 960323

So in other words, he went from an 88% approval rating among a small group of early adopters, to 59.4% approval rating among a much larger group of Tesla owners. I think that's likely to have happened regardless of what Elon did.

I would not characterize 2019 as early adopters, unfortunately. The results are clear, and unsuprising.

 

[winfield100]

Data visualization malpractice to omit the Y-axis labels and omit the minimum possible value on this visualization, but from the context of the rest of the survey, it runs from 5 (agree) to 1 (disagree):

View attachment 960323

So in other words, he went from an 88% approval rating among a small group of early adopters, to 59.4% approval rating among a much larger group of Tesla owners. I think that's likely to have happened regardless of what Elon did.

@willow_hiller
they didn't use "The Visual Display of Quantitative Data" by Edward R Tufte.

weird Y axis, should have been normalized from 0 - 100 not a "random number up to 5" so their graphs make little sense
The data is not presented in a manner to convey the salient point(s)
read all 3 of them as a participant data point.

 

[Nocturnal]

My 2022 model Y constantly says 'parking assist degraded' or 'cameras blocked'.

I look forward to the small tesla van, and the small urban model 2. Both would sell like crazy in Europe.

It is confusing that Tesla has not added a system to clean the cameras given the extreme focus on robotaxis. 20 minutes in salt slush in the winter will have our cars just sitting on the side of the road with flashers going.

Yep, I suspect because Tesla makes great cars. Not because the buyers are part of some cult that buys because of the CEOs political beliefs.

People might have been able to claim a cult of personality some years ago, but Tesla is too mainstream now.

 

[Big Time]

Here is Amazon Google Tesla comparison

 

[Singuy]

I would not characterize 2019 as early adopters, unfortunately. The results are clear, and unsuprising.

The surprising part is that it doesn't matter to sales. Backlog was not very big in 2019 despite peoples' love for Elon. Probably because MSM and Elon was concerned about bankruptcy. Had a coworker asked me what would I do with my Model 3 if Tesla goes BK back in 2019.

However despite covid damaging Elon's reputation, democrats constantly attacking for being a freeloader, and him buying a horse for a mysterious air stewardess, Tesla backlog ballooned to half a million units with production 3x of 2019.

So maybe Elon needs to buy more horses for people to keep this party going...

 

[RCFLMA]

I’m calling zero chance of a hatchback for Highland. Franz doesn’t design that kind of boxy (typical of hatchbacks) shaped butt end on vehicles, I don’t see Tesla shortening up the back piece of glass nor elongating the sides of the lift gate to have it hinged higher along the roof line, and I doubt hatchbacks are aesthetically appealing to Elon.

A core ingredient to the mission was to make compelling EVs that didn’t look like glorified golf carts. While a hatchback may add usage value for people, they ain’t ‘pretty’. Pretty is important to Tesla.

I chose a MY for my wife over an M3 primarily because it was a hatchback. The M3 trunk is a major pain if you live in snowy areas. If you have even a few inches of snow on the car and open the trunk lid, you end up with a trunk full of snow. Doesn't happen with a hatchback like my MS.
I would love to have an M3 hatchback.

 

[Krugerrand]

Ehh, that's just like saying "what have YOU done lately?" when someone levels criticism of someone higher up when the person speaking is someone lower on the totem poll. You're essentially saying "He's Elon, therefore your argument is void." I could ask the same of you.

I would also argue that it is very important that people do report on changes. I would agree that going into it thinking you're going to "own" Elon is a bit naive, but some of ya'll seem to lump those people with people like green. There's a big difference between the two groups.

People are people, and sometimes that may come off as not being 100% factual. But I think we can at least on some level smartly come through some of the emotion if its not thick enough and get to the facts, which for some reason certain groups of people here refuse to do.

Be loyal to Elon 100% at your own risk...

So basically it’s okay to open one’s mouth even if one doesn’t actually know what they’re talking about. It just adds to the adventure for everyone else needing to figure out if it’s truth or crap.

What did Elon do to you personally?

 

[replicant]

View attachment 960329
Here is Amazon Google Tesla comparison

May I suggest to post this to TSLA Technical Analysis instead?

Charts are nice but I can't read tea leaves.

 

[Krugerrand]

Huh?
Model S?

Mark my words.