The point is that you CHOOSE to have the Yoke. Are you against letting people choose what they like most?
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
They changed the language a bit by dropping a couple of words - “coming soon”.
Note: This is only for North America (US & Canada)
With all of the above in mind, the lowering of S/X prices is logical when FSD is on the brink of a massive breakthrough.
Then the lowering of S/X price is a way of pre-balancing the price of TSLA stock.
If true, in my opinion that would really be a master stroke of Tesla in finance, using Wall Street in its own game.
cliff harris
Member
If tesla are struggling to sell all their S/X production, they could easily take some time to make some RHD versions for the UK. As someone who bought an S in the UK in 2015, when Tesla was a relatively small struggling company with 1 factory, its ridiculous they cannot manage this now.
mars_or_bust
Member
The continuing price lowering makes me very bullish about Tesla, as it is probably to some degree motivated to destroy the competition. If Tesla is able to scale quickly (they are), then by having lower prices (while still being profitable) that no non-Chinese competitor can match (even the Chinese ones are suspect) Tesla will rapidly speed up the bankrupcy of a lot of OEMs. This is long term thinking, and goes against the short term Wall Street crap. This is similar to what Amazon was doing in the beginning, selling their stuff at barely any profit, all for the goal of gaining market share and destroying the competition.
For those thinking this goes against the mission, the opposite is true. The sooner all the German automakers die, as well as GM and Ford, the faster true electrification can come about - these companies are at their core against electrification, and the sooner they die off the better.
For those thinking this goes against the mission, the opposite is true. The sooner all the German automakers die, as well as GM and Ford, the faster true electrification can come about - these companies are at their core against electrification, and the sooner they die off the better.
First, please allow me explain:
Margin cuts really hurt TSLA share prices.
It's the weekend, so I'll indulge the comment; this is NOT tangential to what is going to happen to TSLA if it's not fixed soon.
The implications for TSLA are HUGE if this utter BS continues at Tesla. Bjorn's recent video ride-along in the new Highland Model 3 was telling. The driver enters a roundabout and then signals with his OTHER hand (because the turn signal is upside down and now on the wrong side of the steering wheel, and it's pointing in the wrong direction!), and Bjorn comments, "Oh, I see you've done this same route a lot of times already." [paraphrased.].
Second, there are no studies (to my knowledge) that would provide any support to having a moving, variable turn signal selector as no one would fund such an obviously stupid study.
Third, as the Model 3 and Y GREATLY outsell the Model S and X, the impact to our total EV demand will be far greater. Elon is the likely source of this "ram-roding for cost-savings" here as "All input is error" is a quote of his.
This may impact TSLA far more than we suspect as when demand wanes, price cuts follow (see Model S and X pricing trends).
We do NOT need otherwise brilliant EV's hobbled by hubris and arrogance.
Our only hope is that there's a quick recovery plan to re-install the friggin' turn signal lever. At least they got a clue and put the horn button back where it belongs, so that's something.
Those of us with the Palladium S and X still suffer from this Elon lie, or perhaps he just misspoke in an early a.m. Tweet?
Elon Musk confirms yoke steering wheel airbag horn will be turned on through OTA software update
In January we reported that Tesla was getting ready to add a new airbag horn to the Model S yoke steering wheel. The new feature was spotted on a yoke steering wheel with the sticker “AIRBAG […]
driveteslacanada.ca
I think the point is that yoke and stalkless steering columns barely passed muster on the S and X; they will be a huge product defect in the 3 and the Y, especially in Europe, as they WILL be panned for the safety compromises they present . . . .
But, as Elon said, "All input is error" and he is NEVER wrong. /s
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
First, please allow me explain:
Margin cuts really hurt TSLA share prices.
It's the weekend, so I'll indulge the comment; this is NOT tangential to what is going to happen to TSLA if it's not fixed soon.
The implications for TSLA are HUGE if this utter BS continues at Tesla. Bjorn's recent video ride-along in the new Highland Model 3 was telling. The driver enters a roundabout and then signals with his OTHER hand (because the turn signal is upside down and now on the wrong side of the steering wheel, and it's pointing in the wrong direction!), and Bjorn comments, "Oh, I see you've done this same route a lot of times already." [paraphrased.].
Second, there are no studies (to my knowledge) that would provide any support to having a moving, variable turn signal selector as no one would fund such an obviously stupid study.
Third, as the Model 3 and Y GREATLY outsell the Model S and X, the impact to our total EV demand will be far greater. Elon is the likely source of this "ram-roding for cost-savings" here as "All input is error" is a quote of his.
This may impact TSLA far more than we suspect as when demand wanes, price cuts follow (see Model S and X pricing trends).
We do NOT need otherwise brilliant EV's hobbled by hubris and arrogance.
Our only hope is that there's a quick recovery plan to re-install the friggin' turn signal lever. At least they got a clue and put the horn button back where it belongs, so that's something.
Those of us with the Palladium S and X still suffer from this Elon lie, or perhaps he just misspoke in an early a.m. Tweet?
Elon Musk confirms yoke steering wheel airbag horn will be turned on through OTA software update
In January we reported that Tesla was getting ready to add a new airbag horn to the Model S yoke steering wheel. The new feature was spotted on a yoke steering wheel with the sticker “AIRBAG […]
Some people are fine with it. You aren't. You have made it crystalline that this is how you feel and I fully support your right to your opinion.
Please, repeat yourself as many times as necessary to make you feel better about this. As you wrote, "It's the weekend," so posting additional echoes of your opinion at every instance of a conflicting post is perfectly acceptable if you find it soothing to do so.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”
I too am sick to death about you banging on about the yoke, I like it, you don't. Can we please move on......
Agreed, but I thought Tesla was thriving now.
Good question
. Residual values are set by lessors, so tend to be conservative estimates of end-of-term resale values, but in the US case roughly 50% or so of leases longer than 24 months are terminated early mostly through accidents, early tradein or repossession , so Residual values don’t matter for those Early terminations.
Resale values move with all the factors we understand.
Tesla securitized lease portfolios reveal that Tesla lease ordination credit quality is tied with Mercedes Benz for average origination quality. Why is that important?
For the OEM’s whose early terminations are highest, the cost of origination residual value subvention (industry term for OEM subsidy) is low.
Next comes money factor (industry term for efective interest rate). Many OEMs subvene those too.until now Tesla has not done that.
Lastly and most easy to miss are incentives. Consumer ones are visible. Dealer and F&I ones almost never are. The incentives are used by every OEM other than Tesla. All the dealer and F&I ones are wildly complex and are structured specifically to conceal prive cuts and sales. Resistance (caps intentional). That permits maintaining fictional MSRP.
Those of us who are irritated with Tesla pricing are really displaying disdain for the Tesla direct sales model, so WYSIWYG. Without question that forces all of us to actually see what is happening. Tesla also does not manipulate auction values ( the one part of this that is denied vociferously but which happens every day, not least by subvening dealer used car auction purchases though reduced interest charges etc.
Radeon valuesAs with so many TSLA topics, as an outlier in industry practice we have more understanding of actual reality, if we are prepared to do the work. Almost no industry analysts have the expertise, if they wanted to do the work. Many of us do, but the temptation to accept conventional wisdom is very, very great! Partly that temptation is even greater because of the industry practice of inflating Tradein values, covering the shortfall with a variety of F&I tricks. For anybody who doubts the veracity of the last point I suggest checking for auto dealer staff compensation: F&I are the closers on every deal, and make, on average, more than twice than do salespeople, and they also get the best free trips and other benefits.
So, think of that when disillusioned with Tesla complete disclosure which inevitably seems arbitrary at times.
For those who aren’t aware, I spent a decade responsible for many financial functions on behalf of one of the US’ largest captives, and did advisory work for others in US, Canada, UK, Germany, Japan and more. That makes me opinionated, it’s up to you to decide whether you believe this or not.
Next, this post is with regard to the US only. Other countries are very different and often, as in Germany, have OEM ownded dealers which can help conceal these practices. Those are long stories.
Finally, one major reason I have been very long on TSLA is their very conservative accounting, open disclosures and conservative financial practices. TSLA is always open, even when people like us argue for an endless variety of imprudent practices. Sadly, TSLA has toyed with very long term loans, for example, but not enough to lose too much money and even then they don’t toy with reduced credit quality.
Stalkless gear-shift and wipers are fine, stalkless indicators are not, at least not with the initial yoke buttons. There are multiple ways to adapt and resolve this, hopefully will come with time and provide an upgrade to owners
And yes, the horn needs to be shifted back to the centre of the wheel/yoke as standard - after 9 months of Plaid ownership I have no idea where the horn is located
All that being said, I much prefer the yoke over a traditional wheel and the aesthetics are definitely much nicer
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yeah, no kidding! Imagine an AMG that gets 102 MPGe*. That's what the Model X LR does. Unmatched performance with fuel economy better than a small motorcycle or moped!
Cheers to the Model X Buyers!
*EPA-rated 330 watt-hours per mile (205 Wh/km), including charging losses.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
I wonder if this change in status/designation for FSD as a consumer product is related to the upcoming announcement from the NHTSA regarding resolution of their Autopilot probe?
Clearly, Autopilot statistics show a significant benefit to fleet safety, while Tesla vehicle telemetry assists substantially to any investigation.
A consumer upgrade for FSD will be Big Boots for Tesla Auto margins going forward... and the best is yet to come when Dojo gets Trucking (Pepsico collecting data as we speak).
Cheers!
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Mercedes move a total of 10k AMG cars from their entire line up a year. However the forum is concerned about Tesla moving over 150k similar ASP/performance cars a year (factoring all performance models). I even saw the word "struggling". If Tesla is struggling, what are legacy auto doing?
MartinAustin
Active Member
Tesla cars will soon drive themselves. That is why there has never been any HUD, never been any 360° camera view while parking, and stalks are disappearing. In a few years, steering wheel/yoke will be gone too and we won't care all those things are missing... we will be busy doing other stuff (like taking another swig of our beer) while we ride.
Meanwhile, car brands where you have to do the driving yourself will look like dangerous antiques.
"Manual driving" will still be do-able in a Tesla via the touchscreen - for cases when FSD can't get you out of some mess
Meanwhile, car brands where you have to do the driving yourself will look like dangerous antiques.
"Manual driving" will still be do-able in a Tesla via the touchscreen - for cases when FSD can't get you out of some mess
The average new car in the US is 49K and the average used car is 28K.
A Model 3 in inventory is 37-40K (29.5-32.5 after tax rebate)
A Model Y in inventory is 44-49K (36.5-41.5 after tax rebate)
If the UAW goes on strike as planned on the 15th Tesla would be foolish not to blast media with advertising. Inventories of the big 3 are back to historical if not elevated levels (good for them going into a strike) but if the UAW goes say 30+ days on strike it's equivalent to COVID shutdowns. Obviously it's not the whole economy, but their suppliers from top to bottom will have to layoff to get by and then it goes on down the line. This should prop up prices at dealerships for big 3 vehicles, thus giving Tesla and advantage. Now would be the time to strike and use legacy and social media to a larger extent. Offer people an alternative when gas is nearly $4 and highlight the crazy value Tesla offers both in price and features.
Highlight the fact that the federal government will practically pay for home charging installation. Highlight markets where states are giving thousands to even further drive the cost down. If they could reveal CT pricing and public sales.....even better.
Finally, The US gov basically pre-bailed out the big 3 to the tune of 12Bn to build electric vehicles. While this pales in comparison to the 81Bn they loaned them in 2008, these 3 companies have cost the US taxpayer 10.2Bn from 2008, and now 12Bn in 2023 for a total of 22.2B in taxpayer cash. This whole thing pulls me in different directions as I am pro-worker, but also feel like the UAW is being wholly selfish here and overplaying their hand. If I had the capacity to feel bad for the big 3 I might....but I dont. GM + Chrysler have cost the US more than they are worth IMO.
A Model 3 in inventory is 37-40K (29.5-32.5 after tax rebate)
A Model Y in inventory is 44-49K (36.5-41.5 after tax rebate)
If the UAW goes on strike as planned on the 15th Tesla would be foolish not to blast media with advertising. Inventories of the big 3 are back to historical if not elevated levels (good for them going into a strike) but if the UAW goes say 30+ days on strike it's equivalent to COVID shutdowns. Obviously it's not the whole economy, but their suppliers from top to bottom will have to layoff to get by and then it goes on down the line. This should prop up prices at dealerships for big 3 vehicles, thus giving Tesla and advantage. Now would be the time to strike and use legacy and social media to a larger extent. Offer people an alternative when gas is nearly $4 and highlight the crazy value Tesla offers both in price and features.
Highlight the fact that the federal government will practically pay for home charging installation. Highlight markets where states are giving thousands to even further drive the cost down. If they could reveal CT pricing and public sales.....even better.
Finally, The US gov basically pre-bailed out the big 3 to the tune of 12Bn to build electric vehicles. While this pales in comparison to the 81Bn they loaned them in 2008, these 3 companies have cost the US taxpayer 10.2Bn from 2008, and now 12Bn in 2023 for a total of 22.2B in taxpayer cash. This whole thing pulls me in different directions as I am pro-worker, but also feel like the UAW is being wholly selfish here and overplaying their hand. If I had the capacity to feel bad for the big 3 I might....but I dont. GM + Chrysler have cost the US more than they are worth IMO.
cliff harris
Member
Maybe.
But I remember everyone saying exactly the same thing when I bought my 2015 model S, excited about the imminent coast-to-coast interventionless FSD drive from Tesla.
Its now 2023, and I'm on my second Tesla. I paid for FSD, yet this thing cannot even autopark (my 2015 S could) and cant see objects right in front of it, due to the lack of USS (my 2015 S had them). In many, many ways, my 2023 Y is WAY better than the old S, but in terms of autopark, summon and park assist, I now have a worse car.
So, having given elon 8 years to prove that 'Tesla cars will soon drive themselves', I', not going to make any bets on it until its a reality. Globally. Not just palo alto in daytime sunshine with no roundabouts. Until they actually have self-driving cars, the rest of the planet would like cars where we can indicate easily, and have the same autopark capability of a car costing less than half what I paid.
Do you think that US tax incentives to buy Hybrids is what accelerated this? The IRA Hybrid inclusion might have been a real watershed moment causing Tesla to not care so much about legacy survival. Ford might be a different story because of the F150 (which is a hard drug for many), and Ford making a valid attempt at electrifying it. Although, not much progress (or future) there as we learn more about Ford dealership pricing and diluted production plans, along with UAW mess. The NACS charging standard was for future vehicles, like from China in the US. Tesla needed Ford and others to adopt it only to create the standard (and maybe to demonstrate that charging can be pleasant so it doesn't get such a bad reputation).
If Hybrids were disallowed in the IRA, Tesla may have had more support for legacy and be more sensitive to their bottom lines. As it is now, anyone building Hybrids is not helping but hurting the mission. No need to debate the usefulness of Hybrids over ICE. This is more to do with Hybrid over BEV as a way to extend the service life of gasoline. To be clear, don't dare point out advantages of Hybrids as some bridge purchase toward BEV - studies have shown they are not routinely charged and were mainly purchased for HOV lane access. (Edit just to add that this is not 100% of the population; many here especially have milked their Hybrids of every mile they could - great, but not the norm historically.) The reduced costs of a BEV today make it so the Hybrids are more expensive long-term.
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Even if self driving works well, I'd always want a steering wheel and pedals. Will self driving be able to handle a snowy public road, or my snowy private road, where today traction control must be turned off to get up hills? Trying to drive that via touchscreen doesn't sound viable.
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