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Quote: "We are already in early discussions with a major OEM about using Tesla FSD," Musk said during the second-quarter earnings call.

On a quick look at Say.com...

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I'm sad due to the number of votes on this question. There should be an update about this in Q3 2023 Earnings call tomorrow.

Well, since that Motortrend URL seems to be from the future, maybe Elon doesn't have an update yet?
-- the link actually indicates 2024 Q2 -- ".../news/elon-musk-tesla-2024-q2-earnings-call-robotaxis-full-self-driving-software/ "

Obviously /s and/or ;) . And if this is one of those "fiscal 2024 during calendar 2023" things that I don't understand the purpose of, then feel free to laugh at me instead of with me :).
 
The only thing I need to know from the conference call:
how good is FSD V12 performing today compared to the latest v11 build? And how fast is the performance increasing?

We are 2 months further since Elon livestreamed a v12 alpha build.
Did they already solved the issue of crossing red lights using only more clips to train the NN?
Miles/disengagement needs to jump exponentially high because the v11.47 hit a plateau.


The entire valuation of $TSLA depends on it.
 
Saw the Cybertruck in person today during my daily walk. Actually the first time I've seen one in Fremont.

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Couldn't disagree more. How Tesla is perceived is almost entirely irrelevant in the long run. What Tesla does is precisely what matters. Ultimately. Both company and stock. What you have written is profoundly wrong.
What I wrote is absolutely correct. I was writing about what Tesla does. Tesla does things that no other company can do. And in so doing, it drives the perception that this trend will continue in the future. Tesla will continue to innovate like nobody else and that will drive future profits.

When it comes to high tech growth stocks, the price investors are willing to pay depends heavily on how those investors perceive the future.

If Tesla was just a car company, you would be right. But Tesla is not just a car company.
 
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The only thing I need to know from the conference call:
how good is FSD V12 performing today compared to the latest v11 build? And how fast is the performance increasing?

We are 2 months further since Elon livestreamed a v12 alpha build.
Did they already solved the issue of crossing red lights using only more clips to train the NN?
Miles/disengagement needs to jump exponentially high because the v11.47 hit a plateau.


The entire valuation of $TSLA depends on it.
I'd be very happy if they told us about the trend in the miles/disengagement metric. That's Tesla's measure of FSD success right now. I don't think they will share this data except maybe in vague terms. If they actually start giving us the numbers then that would be a very bullish sign.
 
My Model 3 purchased 3 weeks ago only came with 30 days free Premium Connectivity. I already renewed for the first year for $100.
Smart move by Tesla. I just purchased my 3rd Tesla (arriving next month) and I too saw that the free period was reduced to 30days.
Does anyone have a good guess on what Tesla profits on this?
If they charge $100 a year, what is their cost?
 
Smart move by Tesla. I just purchased my 3rd Tesla (arriving next month) and I too saw that the free period was reduced to 30days.
Does anyone have a good guess on what Tesla profits on this?
If they charge $100 a year, what is their cost?
I suspect it's similar to the margins of a software company. There is a fixed cost to create and maintain the service. The cost to add a new user is close to $0. So as the user base grows, the margins approach 100%.

I wonder what the take rate is?
 
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Reactions: Mike Ambler
I suspect it's similar to the margins of a software company. There is a fixed cost to create and maintain the service. The cost to add a new user is close to $0. So as the user base grows, the margins approach 100%.

I wonder what the take rate is?
Connectivity requires a cell connection which is an external cost. The features may be free-ish at volume, but the infrastructure/ data is not.
 
Connectivity requires a cell connection which is an external cost. The features may be free-ish at volume, but the infrastructure/ data is not.
Isn't the cell connection still required if the user does not subscribe? In that case, it would not figure into the cost for a new user.

I suspect the extra data cost is trivial if there is indeed an additional cost to Tesla. And even that appears to be offset by ad revenue?

My point is that as the user base grows huge, the infrastructure/data also becomes "free-ish at volume", which allows margins to approach 100%. Obviously, it never reaches 100%, but it keeps getting closer and closer as you add more users.
 
Smart move by Tesla. I just purchased my 3rd Tesla (arriving next month) and I too saw that the free period was reduced to 30days.
Does anyone have a good guess on what Tesla profits on this?
If they charge $100 a year, what is their cost?
My guesstimate is the vehicle cell connection is $7-8/month in volume. I seem to remember reading this some where. If you look at the consumer prices for vehicle wifi connections they are typically $10-20/month.

I don't think they are making huge margins here. Probably just covering the costs.

It used to be free prior to 2018 so I guess you could say 100% margin improvement from where they were before:).
 
What I wrote is absolutely correct. I was writing about what Tesla does. Tesla does things that no other company can do. And in so doing, it drives the perception that this trend will continue in the future. Tesla will continue to innovate like nobody else and that will drive future profits.

When it comes to high tech growth stocks, the price investors are willing to pay depends heavily on how those investors perceive the future.

If Tesla was just a car company, you would be right. But Tesla is not just a car company.
Perhaps incongruously I agree with both you and @Bet TSLA in part and disagree with you both in another aspect.

TSLA price is driven now almost entirely >50% of typical volume by short sellers, most such volume from 'market makers' (the ' because they are less 'makers' than 'manipulators'). That means the price is largely determined by those participants. As the daily chart analysis of @Papafox usually shows, that manipulation is constant.

Long term innovation does indeed enable Tesla's own product advances, so it is logical to value them. However, securities analysts who drive much high volume in institutional investors all see a very limited scope. In fact today, an inhibition to high valuations is "an aging product line. Model S from 2012 and the most recent Model Y, itself only a reskinned Model 3, dates from 2019". That litany totally ignores factory automation, constant product evolution, octovalves, gigapress, 4680, lithium refining, Megabucks, VPP, subscription revenue and Supercharger revenue from 90% of the NA BEV market within two years already committed....and much more as we all know. BUT...read the analyst reports and most ignore nearly all of that, while the legacy dealers, oil companies and UAW, among others, are very happy to push FUD.

The sum of that is that both of you suggest that price of TSLA relates directly to future value of TSLA. Some theories suggest that, but Rational Market Hypothesis has been disproven definitively. OTOH, if HODL, eventually the roller coaster pays off handsomely. If not HODL no way at all! The volatility will not soon end, especially since the SEC has explicitly ruled that even Naked Short Selling with Failure to Deliver can and does have useful purpose. Under NO circumstances is long term TSLA value reflected in present market price.

Note that the PE ratio seems high, for example, but that good ratio neatly ignores capital base, free cash flow, capital efficiency and much more. Those indicate long term value, to be sure, but have minimal effect on TSLA price.

Of course I agree with you that long term value is the basis for my decisions and those of other HODL As for market timing, even in years, not so much. in multiple years, a different matter.
 
Nice summary and what we might expect by Al Root at Barron’s for today’s earnings talk and price reaction:

Self-driving tech typically comes up on the Tesla conference call, which is scheduled to begin at 5:30 p.m. Eastern time. FSD talk might be trumped this time by Cybertruck. Investors want to know when deliveries will begin and how many the company can make in the coming months. Expectations for Cybertruck, for now, aren’t over the moon. Investors just want to see them delivered and on U.S. roads.

Options markets imply the stock will move about 6%, up or down, following earnings. Tesla stock has moved an average of about 9% following the past four quarterly reports. The stock has dropped three times and risen once.

Coming into Wednesday trading, Tesla stock was up about 16% over the past 12 months while the S&P 500 and Nasdaq Composite were up about 18% and 26%, respectively. Its shares were down 0.6% in premarket trading Wednesday.


I am not so very much interested in the market reaction now. More interested in where we will be next year this time.
 
Looking forward to another exciting day of Tesla reality, both the progress and the challenges. That's the beauty with this one. 💯

None of that competitor-style BS on production plans for '24 or '25 that are shattered daily now. Nothing about begging employees to work together more as a team while they literally fight it out on the streets. We won't here how they're raising sticker prices to take advantage of scarce supplies while at the same time, somehow... gaining EV market share (that one week /s). And we're definitely not going to hear how they're going to make even more legacy products to compensate for declining BEV sales.

And I bet... I can't be sure... but I bet we don't hear the word Bailout or Bankruptcy. No, the only B word we'll hear today is how many gazillion 4680 Batteries are about to ramp and maybe how cheap a kWh will cost in '24. It's how they communicate to wall street so they completely understand that the vehicle discounts are not just a seasonal trick.
 
I suspect it's similar to the margins of a software company. There is a fixed cost to create and maintain the service. The cost to add a new user is close to $0. So as the user base grows, the margins approach 100%.

I wonder what the take rate is?
I doubt that the marginal cost is close to 0 as I think they need to pay the cellular carriers for the considerably more data.
 
Honestly, I think we need some optimistic comments from Elon. If he goes into all of the challenges with production and/or macro environment, I think it will be bad for the price action... media tends to gravitate towards the bad news. Not suggesting he gloss over things, but he has (at times) gone down a rabbit hole and spend disproportionate time there, which is neither useful nor insightful at this point.

Seeing how many of the other manufacturers are doing, indicates that the price cuts Tesla did a few months ago was actually staying ahead of game. Seems like they saw some indications of slowness and challenges others were facing and decided to go for volume. Casting this in a good light (despite the impact to margins) will be useful for the street to hear.
 
…. In fact today, an inhibition to high valuations is "an aging product line. Model S from 2012 and the most recent Model Y, itself only a reskinned Model 3, dates from 2019"…
Changing the subject of the post from which I snatched the above, and considering that together with the bromide that beauty is only skin deep, because recently I have been musing over the thought that many manufacturers have so badly tripped, again and again over the decades, in their attempts to stimulate their market base by altering an originally excellent design, year-in and year-out, with cosmetic tweaks.

I think of the stunning lines of a Jaguar XKE and compare it to the boring blob that today bears that name.
Of the punchy look of a 1965 Mustang versus the bloated mess it became, although it seems after a half century Ford recently may have made that same determination.
Of BMW and its grill-o-gorillas.
Of Toyota’s first generation of LandCruisers - the -40 and -60 no-nonsense looks, and the soulless LX series into which those evolved. The same is true of the mark from which those cars derived their name but I am trying to use only one example per country.

And then I look at any Tesla Model S rolling down the road and, other than whether it has the nose cone or the scoop, it is effectively impossible except to true trimwonks to say whether it is one week old or eleven years. But Oh! those internal improvements!