Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

It was determined that demo had a route pre-selected and that at that point was tuned to succeed for some specifics along that route.

Given what Elon said in the X post you cited was "Longer version of self-driving demo with Paint It Black soundtrack". Where is the lie there?

That is not an accurate description of how the 2016 video came to be.

In addition to hard-coding, they had to drive over 500 miles with very very frequent interventions (all documented in CA DMV records for self driving for the year) and then edit that down to splice together all the really short clips between interventions to make it appear that it did the full drive in a single take with NO interventions and stating right in the video the human is only there because he's legally required to be (rather than because the system required human intervention over and over and over again through the many many many takes they had to do)

I think you'd have to be....very very creative... to not find that outright dishonest.


The autonomy day video several years later, in contrast, WAS a single take, over I wanna say like 12 or 13 total miles driven... which again we have data on from the CA DMV records.

 

[EQC_]

Did you read my initial post? That was:

But that wasn't enough I guess.

Also, my "bad human" reply is not to the video but to to the comment that "He is lacking an understanding of physics and leverage as in moments!".

Maybe the "/sarcasm" was missing there too. Because the video is clickbait. But it does say everything you should know about the OTA fix and the algo that makes the test irrelevant (watch at 2:28). But did you watch it?

Now why am I sharing this here now? Because the SP is boringly flat and more importantly because I didn't hear about that OTA update and the algo fix to detect increasingly small objects. I did read about the cut carrots an split bananas in this thread, though. So I hope you learned something new today too.


Unpilot knows!

Thanks for the explanation.

I'll just politely suggest that when posting a video (especially one that looks a lot like one we've already seen), a few words of explanation might be better than just the emoji.

I couldn't tell that your video was an updated/longer version with the explanation at the end. We all saw the video last week with the same (or similar) lead image that just ended after his finger was hurt...so we had no way of knowing this one included the additional tests and explanation of the algorithm.

Also, as you've probably noticed, there's a lot of folks on this forum lately repeating (usually disproven) negative stories...and sometimes it's hard to keep track of who is who . With just a video thumbnail and an emoji to go by, it was hard to know if your eyeroll was directed at the video producer, at Tesla for "yet another mistake", or what .

 

[advocate8]

Seems like they are saying that when people buy into the FUD and aren't interested in the facts, that their opinion can be disregarded.

In your case specifically, any weight you give this anecdotal episode of people you know may be unwarranted when the facts contradict their purchase choice being based on logic and reason. (or, there were other circumstances that steered the choice, such as impact on their budget, rather any anything about Tesla or their products)

Sometimes folks will speak as though it was something about the product they didn't like to avoid admitting the purchase didn't fit their current budget. Likewise, there are many other illogical reasons to base a choice on.

This is all true. In the case of my relatives though, one is an experienced industrial designer (NOT auto industry mind you) and a HODLer, one of us in that sense. The other runs a bunch of trucks of al sizes for his large property operation, both are good on mechanical and financial stuff. The other people I refer to are indeed random and of varying levels of tech/financial/praticality savvy.

 

[FreqFlyer]

Tesla (TSLA) launches another round of layoffs

Tesla (TSLA) launched another round of layoffs this weekend, with employees in wide-ranging roles getting their pink slip amid broader...

electrek.co

I bet when all is said and done Tesla will be smaller than 10%. Maybe closer to 20% smaller. A leaner and meaner Tesla................back filled with robots.

 

[growler23]

It's interesting that gasoline is subsidized when produced and then taxed when sold. I guess the circle would be complete if the taxes paid for the subsidies.

Those two facts are why I cringe anyone uses the word "free" anywhere near the term "market" when talking about energy. Energy isn't a free market, never has been, likely never will be. Pretty sure Tesla is extremely well aware of this and shows evidence of planning accordingly.

 

[sunwarriors]

Tesla (TSLA) launches another round of layoffs

Tesla (TSLA) launched another round of layoffs this weekend, with employees in wide-ranging roles getting their pink slip amid broader...

electrek.co

I agree with this employee's sentiment that Tesla can cut whatever/however much % they want, but if you're still there, it'd be nice to have some semblance that you won't be gone at least next week, (but of course, maybe in 3 months). Seems better to just cut off whatever so the folks still there can just go back to work with "less" distractions.

Tesla sends out another wave of layoff notices as employees enter 4th week of job cuts

Elon Musk continues to cut deeper at Tesla. Workers posted about the latest wave on social media.

autos.yahoo.com

"We need some level of closure or a sign that we can stop worrying about losing our jobs."

 

[Singuy]

I agree with this employee's sentiment that Tesla can cut whatever/however much % they want, but if you're still there, it'd be nice to have some semblance that you won't be gone at least next week, (but of course, maybe in 3 months). Seems better to just cut off whatever so the folks still there can just go back to work with "less" distractions.

Tesla sends out another wave of layoff notices as employees enter 4th week of job cuts

Elon Musk continues to cut deeper at Tesla. Workers posted about the latest wave on social media.

autos.yahoo.com

"We need some level of closure or a sign that we can stop worrying about losing our jobs."

Worrying about losing your job and subjected to near abusive working hours/conditions have been part of Tesla's job description since the beginning of time.

Working at Tesla is like medical residency. It's gonna suck but rewarding at the same time.

 

[cab]

...

"We need some level of closure or a sign that we can stop worrying about losing our jobs."

Honestly, after a few decades in corporate America, I can say that never really happens. Heck, I've heard corporate leaders utter phrases like "we have no more planned reductions in force" while I was simultaneously being asked behind the scenes to provide names for the next RIF. Sure, there are times when business is going better and the risk is less, but it never goes away. During COVID at my most recent gig the company prospered and went on a hiring spree. I felt bad because I knew, as soon as the Covid money train dried up, it would be a blood bath. It did and it was (still is).

 

[sunwarriors]

Worrying about losing your job and subjected to near abusive working hours/conditions have been part of Tesla's job description since the beginning of time.

Working at Tesla is like medical residency. It's gonna suck but rewarding at the same time.

I don't disagree with you, but this can't help productivity/folks wanting to work, even hardcore if they are having cuts every single week. Just cut however many all at once, 20%, 30%, whatever. Move on and get back to work is my point.

Not about abusive working hours/conditions/or even that long, etc...No job is guaranteed, for pretty much no industry/company, but I don't see how it's strategic or good to not just cut all at once so you can assume you won't be gone next week was all, maybe even a couple months/etc.

At least I don't see how anyone can be that effective working there now if you may be gone next weekend. I wouldn't be surprised people who think they will be cut are updating their resumes/looking for a new job.

 

[Snerruc]

Worrying about losing your job and subjected to near abusive working hours/conditions have been part of Tesla's job description since the beginning of time.

Working at Tesla is like medical residency. It's gonna suck but rewarding at the same time.

Also, these are two of the conditions that cause employees to want unions.

 

[Snerruc]

It’s good to see Tesla starting to do some of the things that are needed to boost sales-like the new Y long range. However, it’s interesting also that now the longest range Y is the cheapest and the most expensive version the shortest range. Surely indicates they weren’t through here.

 

[FreqFlyer]

 

[scaesare]

That is not an accurate description of how the 2016 video came to be.

In addition to hard-coding, they had to drive over 500 miles with very very frequent interventions (all documented in CA DMV records for self driving for the year) and then edit that down to splice together all the really short clips between interventions to make it appear that it did the full drive in a single take with NO interventions and stating right in the video the human is only there because he's legally required to be (rather than because the system required human intervention over and over and over again through the many many many takes they had to do)

I think you'd have to be....very very creative... to not find that outright dishonest.


The autonomy day video several years later, in contrast, WAS a single take, over I wanna say like 12 or 13 total miles driven... which again we have data on from the CA DMV records.

My point is asking where Musk "lied" as per @DarkandStormy, and this is what he gave as evidence thereof . That demo is obviously cut and edited (it jumps from surface streets to freeways, at intersections the cars visible change after cutting to to side cam view, etc...). Elon nor anybody said it was a single uninterrupted journey.

As Ashok said: "The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said"

Again, if anybody thinks an early staged tech demo equates to lying, you 've not attended many tech demos. Especially when software is involved, Would you have seen Steve Jobs go to jail when the pre-release iPhone UI was mocked up to do things like always display full signal strength to impress viewers?

Are demos and wording carefully couched when pre-release? Yes.

Do folks who pay attention realize this? Also yes.

Would I prefer greater transparency and disclaimers so the uninitiated aren't under a different impression than the rest of us? Sure.

However, to use this as evidence of Musk being a liar doesn't hold, in my opinion.

 

[nativewolf]

Ports are full of unsold Chinese EVs.

Belgium's Ports Are Brimming With Unsold Chinese EVs | OilPrice.com

Le Monde reports Belgium’s ports drowning under glut of Chinese electric cars: ‘Some are parked here for a year, sometimes more’

oilprice.com

 

[advocate8]

He needs to stick to engineering, though he is pretty good at sucking up to keep his access flowing. Look, either hiring the 500 member supercharging team was a huge mistake, or firing them was. There is no middle ground here. If there were 15-20 people on the team, or they were trimming a percentage, sure. But either someone was asleep at the switch when the team was being built, or is making a huge mistake now.
He also didn’t mention cuts to the already badly understaffed service centers. No one alive thinks they had enough mechanics.
There are not enough Superchargers, especially with other manufacturers’ vehicles coming aboard. Not close. ICE is on the wrong side of history and TSLA has a profitable, winning and dominant position in the industry of fueling EVs. This is a temporary lull for the EV market. Now is the time to bear down and consolidate that position, not retreat... Just like buying when the market is down.

 

[DarkandStormy]

My point is asking where Musk "lied" as per @DarkandStormy, and this is what he gave as evidence thereof . That demo is obviously cut and edited (it jumps from surface streets to freeways, at intersections the cars visible change after cutting to to side cam view, etc...). Elon nor anybody said it was a single uninterrupted journey.

As Ashok said: "The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said"

Again, if anybody thinks an early staged tech demo equates to lying, you 've not attended many tech demos. Especially when software is involved, Would you have seen Steve Jobs go to jail when the pre-release iPhone UI was mocked up to do things like always display full signal strength to impress viewers?

Are demos and wording carefully couched when pre-release? Yes.

Do folks who pay attention realize this? Also yes.

Would I prefer greater transparency and disclaimers so the uninitiated aren't under a different impression than the rest of us? Sure.

However, to use this as evidence of Musk being a liar doesn't hold, in my opinion.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345208391958888448

https://twitter.com/x/status/716356456593756160

https://twitter.com/x/status/998082149356994560

https://twitter.com/x/status/1017149641991680002

https://twitter.com/x/status/888053175155949572

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1033494277643481089

For simplicity sake I think that's enough "evidence."

 

[nativewolf]

My point is asking where Musk "lied" as per @DarkandStormy, and this is what he gave as evidence thereof . That demo is obviously cut and edited (it jumps from surface streets to freeways, at intersections the cars visible change after cutting to to side cam view, etc...). Elon nor anybody said it was a single uninterrupted journey.

As Ashok said: "The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said"

Again, if anybody thinks an early staged tech demo equates to lying, you 've not attended many tech demos. Especially when software is involved, Would you have seen Steve Jobs go to jail when the pre-release iPhone UI was mocked up to do things like always display full signal strength to impress viewers?

Are demos and wording carefully couched when pre-release? Yes.

Do folks who pay attention realize this? Also yes.

Would I prefer greater transparency and disclaimers so the uninitiated aren't under a different impression than the rest of us? Sure.

However, to use this as evidence of Musk being a liar doesn't hold, in my opinion.

Steve is not getting on saying this iphone is something you can buy today, it was pre-release and oh...they released it just about on time. EM sold that FSD the very next day. If one can't understand the difference between showing a mockup and selling something that does not actually exist and to which the courts have agreed and to which Tesla has had to refund customers because the car will be obsolete before it works and contain hardware incapable of making it work...well such a person should not handle money, contracts, sworn statements, testimony, or buy sun dried east African coffee.

 

[FreqFlyer]

He needs to stick to engineering, though he is pretty good at sucking up to keep his access flowing. Look, either hiring the 500 member supercharging team was a huge mistake, or firing them was. There is no middle ground here. If there were 15-20 people on the team, or they were trimming a percentage, sure. But either someone was asleep at the switch when the team was being built, or is making a huge mistake now.
He also didn’t mention cuts to the already badly understaffed service centers. No one alive thinks they had enough mechanics.
There are not enough Superchargers, especially with other manufacturers’ vehicles coming aboard. Not close. ICE is on the wrong side of history and TSLA has a profitable, winning and dominant position in the industry of fueling EVs. This is a temporary lull for the EV market. Now is the time to bear down and consolidate that position, not retreat... Just like buying when the market is down.

Or the business case changed and they were not needed. Could it be handled better, yes, but it's not like Telsa has a sprawling HR either.

 

[FreqFlyer]

Ports are full of unsold Chinese EVs.

Belgium's Ports Are Brimming With Unsold Chinese EVs | OilPrice.com

Le Monde reports Belgium’s ports drowning under glut of Chinese electric cars: ‘Some are parked here for a year, sometimes more’

oilprice.com

Still? This has been a thing for a while.

 

[Linkmeup]

Maybe if not enough want to buy Tesla solar here on Earth, the Spacefarers and Martians will want to -

SpaceX's Starship could help beam solar power from space, says startup

Virtus Solis plans to place an expansive solar array in the highly elliptical Molniya orbit with the help of SpaceX's Starship.

interestingengineering.com