Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Not a great headline, but it's interesting seeing what Florida is doing regarding FSD.

Florida's Potentially Deadly Autonomous Car Experiment Is Just Beginning
Update:

What follows is my personal opinion only.

So I had a great call with the NYT reporter. We spoke on the phone for nearly two hours (really). Covered a lot of ground, got a lot of context, learned a lot -- I suspect both of us; l know I learned a lot. Ivan is a good guy, he's not a bad guy. Suffice to say, he's heard a ton from Tesla owners since the article came out. :)
When you feel like you are constantly being attacked, you can become prickly. Good to keep in mind that being prickly can turn you into a pr%ck if you let it.
 
When dealing with Tesla's abysmal communications, lately I've been very politely waiting a week after first contact attempt, so that when I spend 4 hours on the phone the second time I have justification to yell at anyone "I've been waiting a week to get a call back, do not dare hang up on me!"

Since I have no idea when Tesla will send me a front license plate bracket, I ordered a third party bracket at four times the cost. Just because Tesla can't be trusted to actually do anything. Isn't that lovely?

I can't recommend Teslas to anyone until they start answering their phones.

Have you tried going to the service center?
 
When dealing with Tesla's abysmal communications, lately I've been very politely waiting a week after first contact attempt, so that when I spend 4 hours on the phone the second time I have justification to yell at anyone "I've been waiting a week to get a call back, do not dare hang up on me!"

Since I have no idea when Tesla will send me a front license plate bracket, I ordered a third party bracket at four times the cost. Just because Tesla can't be trusted to actually do anything. Isn't that lovely?

I can't recommend Teslas to anyone until they start answering their phones.

Interestingly, I found another vector that seems more reliable: setting up an appointment for Mobile Service via the Tesla app. Within a couple days, they hook you up with a direct text line to a Tesla service person. I was able to get a quick response from that person on it(I already happened to have a service appointment to replace a broken fob, mobile tech will look at the autopilot issue too)
 
There is a difference between the individual journalist and the publication or media outlet that puts out the story. We too often forget that. There are also editors, copy editors, headline editors, web producers, and all sorts of other team members who are editing, guiding, cutting, pasting, rearranging, A/B testing of headlines (once again, I learned that the reporter had no say or input or anything as to what the headline of the story was: that's done in NYC, and this reporter is LA based), and packaging the final product that readers see in print or online.

This is *worse*. If it were the individual reporters, we could educate them. If it's the editors of the NYT deliberately hacking paragraphs out to turn a good article *into* a hit piece -- and it absolutely is a hit piece the way it came out -- then:
(1) how do we figure out who's *doing* this? They're hiding their names
(2) They are making Ivan Penn look bad. They are being unfair to him.

For now I'll just say that I suspect a lot of the dissatisfaction many of us feel in terms of how the EV phenomenon is being depicted and covered in major media actually stems from how the stories are packaged by the publication, not from the reporters themselves. But we tend to direct our unhappiness solely onto the name of the reporter attached to the article. On social media, the reporter gets the brunt of the grief, the attacks, the ad-hominems. If we want to move media coverage of EVs forward we have to figure out a way to constructively engage at the editorial level; reporters in general are not the enemy. (Yes, yes, there are writers out there who genuinely don't like Tesla, and have a bias, I will stipulate. Ivan isn't one of 'em.) Tweeting flames to NYT editors isn't the answer, unfortunately; I suspect they a) just tune that stuff out and b), worse, it all just fuels a view--deserved or undeserved--that Tesla owners are elitist and reactionary. (Perhaps a bunch of brief, respectful, thoughtful letters to the editor would be a better approach at engaging with higher-ups in the press. If only the New York Times still had an ombudsman/public editor.)

The problem is that this was a hit piece the way it came out. If Mr. Penn released his original draft, that would be lovely to see. But when Kathy Christianson drives her Bolt between LA and Las Vegas on a regular basis and says that the article is totally unrepresentative of her experience -- then what ended up being published by the NYT was a hit piece.

If Mr. Penn really did his research, he'd have talked to someone like Kathy who does the LA - LV trip routinely in an electric car. Maybe he did do his research and it was cut from the article... if so, the people who cut it have a *lot* to answer for.

What IS a constructive method of dealing with corrupt, clickbaity editors?

I think the EV crowd sometimes views news articles like this latest NYT piece as massive tsunami waves, wreaking destruction on the public's understanding of EVs. The more I discuss the articles with journalists at these media outlets, the more I start realizing that each article is indeed a wave, but just one ordinary wave, and it is the lapping of many waves over years that will ultimately cause the shape of a continent to change.

One thing that would really help is for the people in the press to begin owning EVs, so they have personal hands-on day-in/day-out experience with them. But realistically the industry isn't quite there yet. Early adopter Tesla owners, of which I am one, often easily forget that. Teslas are still pretty exotic/expensive vehicles, and EVs, be they Tesla or made elsewhere, are still out of reach economically and practically by many people for all sorts of reasons we often don't think about. So sure, there are Tesla superchargers all over, but to the ordinary public who doesn't own a Tesla, they mean nothing. I suspect this reporter was more interested in the state of charging for everything non-Tesla.

Which, according to the woman who drives between LA and Las Vegas in her Bolt regularly... is just fine for her. But you wouldn't know that from the piece which got published.

Furthermore, I suspect EVs in general, and definitely Teslas, are still not even on the purchase horizon of most people who work at news-gathering organizations. As a consequence I suspect editors are cutting stuff from stories that might have helped the overall context, stuff existing Tesla owners would have seen as no-brainers and crucial for increasing the public's understanding. I really think this is where the disconnect is.

This is wildly unacceptable. How can we get through to the editors?

I'm going to warn you: if it's the editors messing with the reporters' articles, well, that is traditionally where corrupt pressure is applied to newspapers, at the editor and publisher level. So what you've told me makes it more likely that big money is "leaning on" the editors to eliminate any positive reporting about EVs.

I previously thought Ivan Penn's article was just ignorance, not a conspiracy. You're telling me it was a conspiracy, of editors, headline writers, and whoever leans on them to cut text.

So, I suggest we all take a deep breath and work to find constructive ways outside of swift social media reactions to get better media coverage of the EV revolution. Ideally everyone ought to pitch in: owners, EV-makers, editors, and reporters. I suggested to this reporter that we ought to have a conference and hash these issues out constructively. Maybe that would move the needle forward a little bit. It's a dream, anyway.

A conference would be helpful; maybe it would be possible to figure out who is actually turning these articles into hit pieces.
 
I'll be volunteering Friday and Saturday at Tesla Santa Barbara which is a delivery center for a fairly large geographical area. I have done this end of quarters past since 3rd 1/4 2018. Basically the employees take care of the paperwork and have time only for the quickest explanation of the car. Then they are referred to us volunteers who, if the customer wants, go over the ownership and minutia of the car in detail. Sometimes this includes a short drive to explain AP etc.

I just got a text from a friend who is working there today as a volunteer. He said Teslas are selling quickly and people are even buying the demo cars up. He asked if I would be ok taking people out for drives in my car. Of course, I love to take folks for drives and even let them drive my car.

In any event, I'll let you guys know how my Friday and Saturday go. In any event, it sounds like there is a lot of action going on, at least in the little city of Santa Barbara.
 
Interestingly, I found another vector that seems more reliable: setting up an appointment for Mobile Service via the Tesla app.
Since I bought the car used, and I haven't gotten Tesla to register my ownership of the car in their system, I can't do that in an honest fashion.

I guess I could set up an appointment for my other car, when when I got a response, tell them it's actually for a different car.

:eyeroll: This remains super pathetic, but I might try it.

Within a couple days, they hook you up with a direct text line to a Tesla service person. I was able to get a quick response from that person on it(I already happened to have a service appointment to replace a broken fob, mobile tech will look at the autopilot issue too)
 
Update:

What follows is my personal opinion only.

So I had a great call with the NYT reporter. We spoke on the phone for nearly two hours (really). Covered a lot of ground, got a lot of context, learned a lot -- I suspect both of us; l know I learned a lot. Ivan is a good guy, he's not a bad guy. Suffice to say, he's heard a ton from Tesla owners since the article came out. :)

No time to write up a longer summary now -- it's midafternoon, I'm starving, and haven't had lunch yet -- but suffice to say there is no great NYT conspiracy to screw Tesla. I just don't see it. There is no Broder, the secret puppeteer, controlling everything from behind the curtain. Hell, these reporters don't even know nor have ever communicated with Broder. Forget Broder. We really as a community have to put that theory to rest for good. Broder has become to Tesla what Soros is for the GOP: the bogeyman. Same goes for Patrick Soon-Shiong, owner of LA Times: he is not dictating what Russ Mitchell or other LA Times reporters should write. These theories are not going to move things forward constructively. Time to retire them.

A lot gets cut from news stories and a lot got cut from this one. He did the EVgo/Chevy Bolt drive from LA->Vegas sometime in April, two months ago. He did not pick EVGo, they reached out to him. They offered the car; he did not pick the car. He rode with EVGo reps in the car, I suppose he thought it was worth a try, he might learn something about the charging infrastructure available to the public. There is so much context that gets lost by what winds up in the few words that survive to print. He did all sorts of research for this story which was ostensibly about charging and charging networks--not about the cars. He covers alternative energy and has an interest in EV charging networks and in battery storage. There was a ton more about Tesla in the article originally that didn't make it into the final piece (Tesla gave him a Model 3 to drive for a weekend--he thought it was a great car, no complaints, though he did have some interesting charging experiences, which is the thing he was mainly interested in). But still, I learned that apparently Tesla's PR team is generally happy with the resulting story, and is not bent out of shape the way many in the Tesla community have been since this story came out. Something to think about.

There is a difference between the individual journalist and the publication or media outlet that puts out the story. We too often forget that. There are also editors, copy editors, headline editors, web producers, and all sorts of other team members who are editing, guiding, cutting, pasting, rearranging, A/B testing of headlines (once again, I learned that the reporter had no say or input or anything as to what the headline of the story was: that's done in NYC, and this reporter is LA based), and packaging the final product that readers see in print or online.

For now I'll just say that I suspect a lot of the dissatisfaction many of us feel in terms of how the EV phenomenon is being depicted and covered in major media actually stems from how the stories are packaged by the publication, not from the reporters themselves. But we tend to direct our unhappiness solely onto the name of the reporter attached to the article. On social media, the reporter gets the brunt of the grief, the attacks, the ad-hominems. If we want to move media coverage of EVs forward we have to figure out a way to constructively engage at the editorial level; reporters in general are not the enemy. (Yes, yes, there are writers out there who genuinely don't like Tesla, and have a bias, I will stipulate. Ivan isn't one of 'em.) Tweeting flames to NYT editors isn't the answer, unfortunately; I suspect they a) just tune that stuff out and b), worse, it all just fuels a view--deserved or undeserved--that Tesla owners are elitist and reactionary. (Perhaps a bunch of brief, respectful, thoughtful letters to the editor would be a better approach at engaging with higher-ups in the press. If only the New York Times still had an ombudsman/public editor.)

I think the EV crowd sometimes views news articles like this latest NYT piece as massive tsunami waves, wreaking destruction on the public's understanding of EVs. The more I discuss the articles with journalists at these media outlets, the more I start realizing that each article is indeed a wave, but just one ordinary wave, and it is the lapping of many waves over years that will ultimately cause the shape of a continent to change.

One thing that would really help is for the people in the press to begin owning EVs, so they have personal hands-on day-in/day-out experience with them. But realistically the industry isn't quite there yet. Early adopter Tesla owners, of which I am one, often easily forget that. Teslas are still pretty exotic/expensive vehicles, and EVs, be they Tesla or made elsewhere, are still out of reach economically and practically by many people for all sorts of reasons we often don't think about. So sure, there are Tesla superchargers all over, but to the ordinary public who doesn't own a Tesla, they mean nothing. I suspect this reporter was more interested in the state of charging for everything non-Tesla. Furthermore, I suspect EVs in general, and definitely Teslas, are still not even on the purchase horizon of most people who work at news-gathering organizations. As a consequence I suspect editors are cutting stuff from stories that might have helped the overall context, stuff existing Tesla owners would have seen as no-brainers and crucial for increasing the public's understanding. I really think this is where the disconnect is. Sadly it's not going to get fixed overnight, or even in a year. But I am hopeful it is going to get better over time as EVs become more mainstream.

So, I suggest we all take a deep breath and work to find constructive ways outside of swift social media reactions to get better media coverage of the EV revolution. Ideally everyone ought to pitch in: owners, EV-makers, editors, and reporters. I suggested to this reporter that we ought to have a conference and hash these issues out constructively. Maybe that would move the needle forward a little bit. It's a dream, anyway.

Agreed. Everyone, kindly direct your hate to the real enemies: the likes of Linette Lopez.
 

P.S. I'd be happy to talk to Mr. Penn. I've had my Tesla since 2013, so I've watched the evolution of charging networks from "Does your campground have 50 amp service?" to "I have to go through Canada because there are no chargers in Ohio" to "I can go anywhere except North Dakota without thinking about it", and I have some of the stories for it. There is a story about the evolution of charging networks, and he might want to write it. Maybe publish it at a more reputable publication.

Frankly, his editors are doing him a disservice -- and there's a story there too, an investigative journalism story about who is leaning on the editors to slant all electric car articles negative rather than giving a real impression of what's going on.
 
I look forward to what will happen when more complex and addictive games come out. There will be more business opportunities to serve car owners that opt to stay in the car while charging to play these games.

Maybe a return to fast food in your car type diners where the server comes to your car while you charge and play games.

Which makes the resale value also interesting as version 2.5 hardware should have the best graphic chip...

A tie up with nintendo switch is probably a good idea. It just need a HDMI input to the screen.

Hmm, Sonic Burgers delivered to your car by roller-skating attendants while you plug in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Artful Dodger
I would do product placement for the company for free if I was in the position to do so. How do you know that Tesla paid for this? I don't remember the thread but free of charge Tesla product placement in TV shows was just discussed recently elsewhere on the forum.

Having managed product placement where a TV show called me and asked about putting the product in the show once and we got it in the show free of charge because they liked the company and product I can vouch for this being a thing.
 
When dealing with Tesla's abysmal communications, lately I've been very politely waiting a week after first contact attempt, so that when I spend 4 hours on the phone the second time I have justification to yell at anyone "I've been waiting a week to get a call back, do not dare hang up on me!"

Since I have no idea when Tesla will send me a front license plate bracket, I ordered a third party bracket at four times the cost. Just because Tesla can't be trusted to actually do anything. Isn't that lovely?

I can't recommend Teslas to anyone until they start answering their phones.

Can you use the phone app to call for service and describe as “please deliver and install front license plate holder”? BTW my car was inventory from Austin, we don’t have front license plates in AZ, so I had a detail shop carefully remove the bracket - it was just fastened with adhesive, no holes drilled, so there should be something they can just stick on.
 
This is *worse*. If it were the individual reporters, we could educate them. If it's the editors of the NYT deliberately hacking paragraphs out to turn a good article *into* a hit piece -- and it absolutely is a hit piece the way it came out -- then:
(1) how do we figure out who's *doing* this? They're hiding their names
(2) They are making Ivan Penn look bad. They are being unfair to him.



The problem is that this was a hit piece the way it came out. If Mr. Penn released his original draft, that would be lovely to see. But when Kathy Christianson drives her Bolt between LA and Las Vegas on a regular basis and says that the article is totally unrepresentative of her experience -- then what ended up being published by the NYT was a hit piece.

If Mr. Penn really did his research, he'd have talked to someone like Kathy who does the LA - LV trip routinely in an electric car. Maybe he did do his research and it was cut from the article... if so, the people who cut it have a *lot* to answer for.

What IS a constructive method of dealing with corrupt, clickbaity editors?



Which, according to the woman who drives between LA and Las Vegas in her Bolt regularly... is just fine for her. But you wouldn't know that from the piece which got published.



This is wildly unacceptable. How can we get through to the editors?

I'm going to warn you: if it's the editors messing with the reporters' articles, well, that is traditionally where corrupt pressure is applied to newspapers, at the editor and publisher level. So what you've told me makes it more likely that big money is "leaning on" the editors to eliminate any positive reporting about EVs.

I previously thought Ivan Penn's article was just ignorance, not a conspiracy. You're telling me it was a conspiracy, of editors, headline writers, and whoever leans on them to cut text.



A conference would be helpful; maybe it would be possible to figure out who is actually turning these articles into hit pieces.

Oh geez. This is an overreaction. There is no conspiracy. I think it’s unproductive to frame these issues that way.
 
Response from Texas senator Kirk Watson regarding Texas auto dealer laws: (my highlighting in bold- nothing we didn't already know):

Thank you for writing regarding Tesla and our state's auto dealership laws. We have had an incredibly busy (but also incredibly productive) legislative session this year, so our response time has been slower than usual. Thank you for your patience awaiting my reply.


I appreciate your interest in updating our state's auto dealer laws. I have long believed that we can update these laws to create more fairness and consumer choice without sacrificing the positive aspects of our current system. Unfortunately, the Texas Legislature has been very reluctant to have that conversation because the Texas Automobile Dealers Association is a vocal opponent of most changes. As a result, during the past legislative session the Legislature made only one update to our state's auto dealer laws, which benefits Berkshire Hathaway.


Although I think the substance of that bill is fine, I voted against it because I believe we should take a more holistic approach to this question rather than passing one company's requested carve-out. I was in the minority, however, and so the bill passed and is now law. Thankfully the bill was amended before it passed to ensure Tesla could continue to operate its service centers. With this change, Tesla became neutral on the bill.


Thank you again for writing. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and ideas with me on this issue. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future if I can be of further assistance.


Sincerely,


Kirk Watson

Texas State Senator- District 14
 
In Beijing in *1986* it was standard to wear a face mask because of the air pollution. It didn't help much but it was better than nothing. The air pollution has apparently gotten much worse since then. I'm quite sure all the people in Shanghai are wearing face masks because of air pollution.

"Bioweapon Defense Mode" will be on most of the time in Chinese cities. :-(
Used to live in Shanghai in 2011-ish. Only time I saw people with masks was when they were sick.
 
When dealing with Tesla's abysmal communications, lately I've been very politely waiting a week after first contact attempt, so that when I spend 4 hours on the phone the second time I have justification to yell at anyone "I've been waiting a week to get a call back, do not dare hang up on me!"

Since I have no idea when Tesla will send me a front license plate bracket, I ordered a third party bracket at four times the cost. Just because Tesla can't be trusted to actually do anything. Isn't that lovely?

I can't recommend Teslas to anyone until they start answering their phones.
Unless it's because they're all hands on deck doing that "record quarter on every level" thing successfully, then I'd forgive everything... And happily mail you a check for your license plate thingy too.
 
Hmm, Sonic Burgers delivered to your car by roller-skating attendants while you plug in.

Interestingly, there's at least one Sonic out here that does have an EVSE, and you can actually have Sonic burgers delivered to your car by roller-skating attendants while you're plugged in. I did it once way back in my Leaf days.
 
P.S. I'd be happy to talk to Mr. Penn. I've had my Tesla since 2013, so I've watched the evolution of charging networks from "Does your campground have 50 amp service?" to "I have to go through Canada because there are no chargers in Ohio" to "I can go anywhere except North Dakota without thinking about it", and I have some of the stories for it. There is a story about the evolution of charging networks, and he might want to write it. Maybe publish it at a more reputable publication.

Frankly, his editors are doing him a disservice -- and there's a story there too, an investigative journalism story about who is leaning on the editors to slant all electric car articles negative rather than giving a real impression of what's going on.

As I indicated right at the top of my post, what I posted is purely my opinion. Please don’t transfer what I said to be what he said. It’s a hastily-written summary. I too am a 6yr Tesla owner. Been there, done that. It is solely my theory that the disconnect may be happening at the editing level not necessarily the reporting level. Just to be clear.