Lot's of rumors and speculation, including getting into mining (maybe after insurance), but Panasonic has the supply agreements for the chemical raw materials that have been and currently are used to produce cells at GF-1. Tesla may have an agreement for the Al in the cans.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Those "rumors and speculation" were both firm agreements reported in regulatory filings by the lithium companies.
Any deal to buy the GF1 business would clearly need to include transfer of Panasonic's current supply arrangements. Panasonic's not exactly going to have much need of tonnes of Tesla specification cathode material after it sells its Tesla business.
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There's a difference between "rock crawling" and "being able to drive on backcountry roads or fields which may occasionally jab you with a rock in a way you didn't expect".
They weren't a sufficiently "material definitive agreement" for Tesla to file an 8k. Where does Tesla get the NI, Co, graphite?
Something something insurance fraud?[/QUOTE
No, drama queen video.
Tesla's working capital is only ~$450 million; and, in less than four months, it's going to need $565 million to repay the SCTY convertible. What do you suppose that Panasonic would do with the equity you are expecting they would accept? The "strong" cash flow in 1H19 was $224 million of which $164 million came from Inventory write-downs and Loss on Disposal of Fixed Asssets.
I never alleged it was only about Panasonic's equipment. Panasonic did ok on the 18650 Supply Agreement and saw Tesla and GF-1 as a profitable opportunity. So far it hasn't worked out for Panasonic.
If Tesla could have gone to a bank or capital lease company in 2014 it would have, but the junk bond rating on its debt coupled with all of Tesla's other valuable assets pledged to the ABL creditors made the Panasonic financing arrangement the most viable option.
How much rent has Tesla received from Panasonic at GF-1? at GF-2?
dc_h
Active Member
I don’t see it. They need 35GWh from sparks. Next boost in cells needed for Shanghai and then Europe. If Tesla waits this out a year they can buy Panasonic out for nothing. Panasonic hasn’t driven productivity and production as fast as Tesla needs and CATL and LG are likely going to be future partners. I base that on the Indonesian partnership, which seems to be where the terawatt lithium source is coming from.
dc_h
Active Member
I can’t believe someone out 31,000 miles on one of them.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
For those of you who think the Tesla FUD will stop when [fill in your reason here], if Apple is any guide then it never will. Here's Apple fanboy Daniel Eran Dilger calling out the FUDsters using the results from this quarter. Won't make any difference though. It never has.
Editorial: Apple's Q319 earnings destroy a mountain of fake data and false reporting
John Gruber does the same over at Daring Fireball for one specific thing succinctly:
Damned If They Do, Damned If They Don’t
You can come up with whatever reason you like for why Apple and Tesla are targeted specifically. My personal belief is that both companies are motivated by things other than money (Tesla has their mission, and Apple is dedicated to making products that amaze and delight). That fact is supremely offensive to many, and Wall St. people in particular. So they view it as their holy duty to try to make sure these companies are vilified and (they hope) never make any money. We can all hope they will be just as successful with Tesla as they have been with Apple.
Editorial: Apple's Q319 earnings destroy a mountain of fake data and false reporting
John Gruber does the same over at Daring Fireball for one specific thing succinctly:
Damned If They Do, Damned If They Don’t
You can come up with whatever reason you like for why Apple and Tesla are targeted specifically. My personal belief is that both companies are motivated by things other than money (Tesla has their mission, and Apple is dedicated to making products that amaze and delight). That fact is supremely offensive to many, and Wall St. people in particular. So they view it as their holy duty to try to make sure these companies are vilified and (they hope) never make any money. We can all hope they will be just as successful with Tesla as they have been with Apple.
Not to mention, none of the big media orgs bother reporting on any such incidents unless a Tesla is involved.
Singer3000
Member
Nah... Q1 was the necessary wake up call: “due to unforeseen challenges we had only delivered half of the quarter’s numbers ten days before the end of the quarter”. Just imagine what their cash balance looked like on 20th March.
No minds will be changed now but it was the height of hubris not to have raised cash earlier at a higher stock price, given how many “unforeseen challenges”, both internal and external have caused problems so far and might again in the future.
I’ve assumed for a long time that Pana’s US battery business will be brought in house, though it would be a stock only (or mostly) deal surely?
Completely the right move vertically integrating cell production. Parallels to bringing the chipset in-house from Mobileye. The difference with a Pana acquisition would be that there would be continuation of IP and expertise, so hopefully you’d avoid the 12-24 month setback Tesla suffered on Autopilot. It’s especially important to do because the battery cell is the key supply constraint to aggressive scaling of volume and the capex/expansion should be done in lock step with vehicle production, rather than lagging as we saw in the past year.
Except that the unforeseen challenges in Q1 were already in the process of being fixed or had been fixed before they started the secondary offering. Considering the unforeseen was purely production and cell limitations, and not demand, I don't think it was needed and i still think Tesla raised the money for reasons other that shoring up the balance sheet.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Fiat Chrysler's Europe arm forecast to have 'break-even' Q2; long-term outlook less positive
Given the case Fiat-Chrysler's European arm is scheduled to pay Tesla over $2B over the next 5 plus years this seems very relevant.
Given the case Fiat-Chrysler's European arm is scheduled to pay Tesla over $2B over the next 5 plus years this seems very relevant.
I'll also never understand why American journalists/analysts produce so much crap about truly innovative American companies while finding time to praise and cheer on Korean dishwasher manufacturers and Chinese technology pirates.
According to them, Apple has been proudly going out of business for decades - and agreed, we can only hope that Tesla follows in their footsteps ...
RobStark
Well-Known Member
- Alfa Romeo deliveries fell 42 percent to 29,059.
- Maserati’s demand suffered a 31 percent drop to 3,040.
- Alfa Romeo was also outsold by Tesla’s Model 3, which, according to JATO Dynamics, accounted for 37,476 sales in the first half. The success of Tesla’s midsize electric sedan is actually good news for FCA because the more cars Tesla sells, the closer FCA gets to reaching its CO2 target.
Singer3000
Member
As I said, I don’t expect to change minds. But Q1 delivery hell was but one of the many unanticipated problems Tesla has had with Model 3. It’s great they finally realised the importance of a sensible cash buffer. I haven’t read much about Tesla bankruptcy in a while now.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Because - there are some other American companies willing to wine & dine the said journalists/analysts to write crap about Tesla/Apple. Ofcourse, the money need not come just from other American companies - as they say, money has no nationality.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes, one hopes FCA doesn't go bankrupt before paying Tesla.
Where’s the barf emoji when you need it.
That was a very Apple fan boyish thing to say.
I’m happy with my iPad, iPhone, ATV, and MBP. But, let’s be real.....$$$ is what it is.
$39 silicone case that could be had for $5 on Amazon.
$29 for basic cables and dongles?
Lets not forget their cash cow iPhones, which can cost as much as a 27” iMac.
And I guess their new credit card is going to amaze and delight the Apple buyers.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Last 4 quarters when Tesla has started selling Model 3 in volume has resulted in 2.8 Billion of Operating Cash Flow.
But I get the larger point. Tesla is not in a position to buy Panasonic part of GF1 with cash and Pana won't probably take equity (though if I was Panasonic, I would at the current price).
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