Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[StarFoxisDown!]

Gee all it took was 1 day of patience to get the full story.

Is any actually surprised that information was withheld??? Come on guys we should all know how this works when negative news breaks on Tesla.

 

[MP3Mike]

Can this end up in some sort of arbitration?

I would think that depends on what is in all of the 248 contracts. But if Walmart is suing already my guess is that there isn't a mandatory arbitration clause.

 

[kengchang]

Gee all it took was 1 day of patience to get the full story.

Is any actually surprised that information was withheld??? Come on guys we should all know how this works when negative news breaks on Tesla.

Plainsite is known TSLAQ

 

[dww12]

It appears to me that Walmart decide to proactively file this suit because Tesla has served them with a notice of breach of contract on July 8th. So Walmart sued first. (Or we haven't seen Tesla's suit.)

Lots of details from the Tesla side here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=RqSHuW6uX9KG7VafnJj1Og== and here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=nxjvmTOyMhPSBoGvo4N/Ng==

You can get a list of everything related to the case here: Document List

For example:



So Walmart's goal is to either:

• Get concessions on the contracts to favor them
• or get the contracts terminated probably so they can go with a cheaper provider.

When I first read the details from PlainSite I didn't understand why they had 248 individual contracts, it seems it would complicate things. Now I understand why. Each site has an independent contract so that something going wrong at one site can't mess up all the others.

Thank you for finding that. Walmart sure is a bunch of dicks. Guess I am going to have to quit going to Sams.

 

[MP3Mike]

Gee all it took was 1 day of patience to get the full story.

Actually it was all available yesterday, just nobody had taken the time to find the source. I suspect that part of the reason nobody look is that Plainsite makes their site look like the "official" PACER/RECAP system.

I started to look last night but got distracted by life, and then work got in the way this morning.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

And for those unfamiliar with PlainSite, it's run by Aaron Greenspan, who has a least at one point been short Tesla (via puts, if I recall correctly).

From what I’ve seen, plainsite has been openly antagonistic towards Tesla/Musk

 

[Foghat]

It appears to me that Walmart decide to proactively file this suit because Tesla has served them with a notice of breach of contract on July 8th. So Walmart sued first. (Or we haven't seen Tesla's suit.)

Lots of details from the Tesla side here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=RqSHuW6uX9KG7VafnJj1Og== and here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=nxjvmTOyMhPSBoGvo4N/Ng==

You can get a list of everything related to the case here: Document List

For example:



So Walmart's goal is to either:

• Get concessions on the contracts to favor them
• or get the contracts terminated probably so they can go with a cheaper provider.

When I first read the details from PlainSite I didn't understand why they had 248 individual contracts, it seems it would complicate things. Now I understand why. Each site has an independent contract so that something going wrong at one site can't mess up all the others.

Each site has a unique system and based on those unique systems, production target obligations as well as any specifics due to net metering, etc.. are per contract basis to work effectively.

This also gives detail to how Tesla can “aggregate” all these contracts into a virtual power plant and offer grid services to the grid operators. From my recollection, Tesla leases have income sharing on these grid services already in the contracts.

There is so much coming down the Tesla product pipeline it’s insane... grid services (where home owners and business profit along with Tesla) is just one.

 

[ZeApelido]

In that 100 pages did they include a fire marshall report? Did they list other SC installs that caught fire? Did they list their other stores that had solar not installed by SC that has not caught fire. I see Walmart has a solar fire problem, and they want to blame Tesla, I don’t see where they proved it was Tesla and not vandals or employees on smoke breaks tearing stuff up.

Sources say this was the fire marshall involved...

 

[Foghat]

We can see already that they Tesla/Walmart dispute has 2 sides and Tesla's arguments seem equally strong...

Over and above that the main things Tesla purchased with SC where:-

• Existing Solar leases (like Walmart)
• The GF2 factory
• Solar Roof IP
• Experienced installers...

There is no reason at all why Solar can't make a good contribution to Tesla's business, no reason at all why a Tesla install can;t be a higher quality than any competitor.

We know the panels coming out of GF2 are high quality.

They also bought an undisclosed number of lease contracts that already have aggregation service revenue sharing with lease customers written in those contracts.

Once Tesla has their software and system in operations they can act as energy providers to the grid like a centralized utility. Big difference is the home owners and business get a cut of the revenue unlike traditional utilities who take money from ratepayers.

This is one of those huge game changers that Tesla is developing under the radar. Literally create a big utility right under their noses. They see it coming and are actively working to deny it or take it over and absorb it into the traditional structure.

It’s a battle happening in the background right now, most aren’t aware.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Actually it was all available yesterday, just nobody had taken the time to find the source. I suspect that part of the reason nobody look is that Plainsite makes their site look like the "official" PACER/RECAP system.

I started to look last night but got distracted by life, and then work got in the way this morning.

We all appreciate it Mike

 

[MP3Mike]

We all appreciate it Mike

You're welcome. It really irks me that Dana Hull admits to having read all of that, but didn't bother to mention Tesla's side at all. Yeah, Tesla hasn't officially responded to the suit yet but it is fairly obvious what their response is going to look like...

 

[DRAW]

My apologies. I didn't mean to pick on Denmark; it just happened to be in the news. I was being facetious. I was attempting to highlight the fact that so many wars are actually started by aggressors who try to make it appear that a defender has initiated an incident that must be punished. Often those incidents are either faked or intentionally provoked by the aggressor. Perhaps I should have ended that post with an emoticon.

Meanwhile, I am embarrassed by the way my nation's president has been offending your nation's prime minister with his remarks about Greenland and his cancellation of their scheduled meeting. I doubt that most Americans are in agreement with him in this matter. Sorry.

Thanks for the clarification. No need to apologize.

 

[Buckminster]

3 things on the Sandy Munroe interview:

1. MY wiring came up but Sandy started talking about fighter jet devices rather than the benefit of a bus and how it will be assembled etc. Missed opportunity.
2. Chassis castings not discussed. Missed opportunity.
3. I think that what Sandy is missing regarding the M3 chassis being over designed for crash is that Tesla are most likely thinking about crash performance in situations that are not tested.

I am constantly amazed how most people / organisations are 100% reactive.

 

[Foghat]

Actually it was all available yesterday, just nobody had taken the time to find the source. I suspect that part of the reason nobody look is that Plainsite makes their site look like the "official" PACER/RECAP system.

I started to look last night but got distracted by life, and then work got in the way this morning.

The PlainSite court documents *redacted* the exhibits with Tesla’s letter.

Does this mean PlainSite created these redactions to create a false narrative? If so, were these manipulate documents published on major news sites with far reaching exposure as their source documents?

If this is true, seems like grounds for major lawsuit on behalf of Tesla regarding this purposeful deception.

 

[MC3OZ]

We do?

The product is a very nice Panasonic panel that is well established.

 

[Foghat]

Bottomline:

Walmart is going to get hammered in the end.

They shut down 244 operational systems, each with separate performance obligations as bargaining plays on the 4 disputed systems.

That’s 244 breaches of contract that are not defendable in any reasonable manner, since those systems were functioning as contracted before being shutdown indefinitely.

It’s not an overstatement to point out that each system is an individually signed contract, just like each homeowner signs an individual contract in a home solar system contract. You can’t indefinitely shutdown your neighbors system because you are in dispute over your own, same here with the other Walmart sites.

Tesla has lost significant revenue due to these actions, they will be awarded all of it in my opinion. This will be a major embarrassment to Walmart (if not settled before judgement).

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Bottomline:

Walmart is going to get hammered in the end.

They shut down 244 operational systems, each with separate performance obligations as bargaining plays on the 4 disputed systems.

That’s 244 breaches of contract that are not defendable in any reasonable manner, since those systems were functioning as contracted before being shutdown indefinitely.

It’s not an overstatement to point out that each system is an individually signed contract, just like each homeowner signs an individual contract in a home solar system contract. You can’t indefinitely shutdown your neighbors system because you are in dispute over your own, same here with the other Walmart sites.

Tesla has lost significant revenue due to these actions, they will be awarded all of it in my opinion. This will be a major embarrassment to Walmart (if not settled before judgement).

Don’t worry, if Walmart loses, every article written about it will sugar coat that fact or avoid mentioning it at all.

 

[tinm]

Why am I not surprised?

View attachment 444968

I’m not surprised by your post.

I don’t see what all the fuss is with TeslaDaily. If you already follow Tesla developments closely every day, there’s usually nothing but old news in the TeslaDaily podcast. If TeslaDaily had info unreported elsewhere I’d probably have a different view. Funny how to dare even say this publicly in TMC is deserving of ridicule.

 

[mrmage]

Reuters - today: Trump attacks Ford Motor for not backing fuel economy rollback - Reuters

It's like Satan disguised as a human is running our government.

Otoh, he did refer to himself as the chosen one.

 

[Antares Nebula]

There are bigger things in the universe to worry about than Walmart and Trump. Let's all take a moment.