Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Foghat]

Read this.

Walmart Inc v Tesla Energy | Solar City | Solar Cell

Look at it. Its over 100 pages, but its pretty damning. Photos. Timelines. And surprisingly few demands from Walmart other then fixing it and paying for expenses.

No, Tesla has not put forth their side. But looking at what I see so far, Tesla has performed VERY badly. Do not mistake me for a short or a troll, I have a good amount of Tesla stock. I thoroughly believe in the future of Tesla, but am deeply disappointed when they make COSTLY mistakes like this. SC was a trainwreck. But the bleeding on this issue (Walmart) could have stopped a while ago. It looks like Tesla has just brushed this aside and certainly has not gone to each site and given it a re-do like they should. They have treated this like they have treated the worst of automotive customers.

Did you read the entire document?

 

[Foghat]

What he said. It's true that we won't know the full story until we see Tesla's response filing. But what Walmart has claimed is clearly an extremely poorly-managed relationship by Tesla with a large customer whose Tesla-installed locations were literally burning. And that relationship was poorly managed over the course of years.

This is not to say that Tesla wasn't working behind the scenes to repair the situation, or that Tesla doesn't have a reasonable explanation for the conflagrations. But the filing rings true to me, having followed Tesla for nearly a decade and having watched them perform the same gross mismanagement of relationships with customers across their businesses for the majority of that time. (See the ridiculous fiasco of the S/X yellowing screens being called a wear item for one recent, ongoing example.)

Tesla's track record is terrible communication. Walmart claims terrible communication. Benefit of the doubt is earned, and Tesla doesn't get it for that particular claim. I'm not drawing any conclusions on the root cause of the fires. Just expressing that it seems clear to me that Tesla dropped the [bowling] ball on their foot with how they handled this thus far.

Those who follow me know better than to claim anything but Tesla support coming from me. Hell, Tesla Energy is installing panels on my roof tomorrow. But they're not infallible, and they routinely make mistakes. This is clearly one of those mistakes, even if Tesla is ultimately largely cleared with regard to the cause of the fires.

The irrational fanatical fanboyism here has gotten far out of control lately. I miss @neroden, @DaveT, etc.

Did you read the document?

 

[dww12]

Read this.

Walmart Inc v Tesla Energy | Solar City | Solar Cell

Look at it. Its over 100 pages, but its pretty damning. Photos. Timelines. And surprisingly few demands from Walmart other then fixing it and paying for expenses.

No, Tesla has not put forth their side. But looking at what I see so far, Tesla has performed VERY badly. Do not mistake me for a short or a troll, I have a good amount of Tesla stock. I thoroughly believe in the future of Tesla, but am deeply disappointed when they make COSTLY mistakes like this. SC was a trainwreck. But the bleeding on this issue (Walmart) could have stopped a while ago. It looks like Tesla has just brushed this aside and certainly has not gone to each site and given it a re-do like they should. They have treated this like they have treated the worst of automotive customers.

In that 100 pages did they include a fire marshall report? Did they list other SC installs that caught fire? Did they list their other stores that had solar not installed by SC that has not caught fire. I see Walmart has a solar fire problem, and they want to blame Tesla, I don’t see where they proved it was Tesla and not vandals or employees on smoke breaks tearing stuff up.

 

[SpaceCash]

People are starting to get pretty liberal with that "fanboy" word.

Relax. Tesla has already won.
The word is out
The technology exists
The mainstream media is rightly ignored
Nobody talks about any car brand anymore BESIDES Tesla.
Elon could get run over by an Escalade tomorrow and I'd hold my shares.
We're near 5 year lows, if you're not buying now you're a weak long #SorryNotSorry

 

[Electroman]

For the first time I am not defending Tesla on Twitter on this issue.

 

[ZeApelido]

Another interesting tidbit: Possible German factory location.... Alex on Twitter


Google Maps

Wow that's close to Denmark.

Careful Trump may try to buy the land.

 

[Johnny Ma]

For everyone losing their minds over Walmart v. Tesla, it turns out PlainSite withheld some information until AFTER the matter was reported on by the media.

Vladimir Grinshpun on Twitter

Things look at bit different after reading this.

 

[StealthP3D]

I thoroughly believe in the future of Tesla, but am deeply disappointed when they make COSTLY mistakes like this.

You don't know enough to call this a costly mistake by Tesla. It could turn out that going to court was the most cost-effective way to resolve this.

 

[Johnny Ma]

For everyone losing their minds over Walmart v. Tesla, it turns out PlainSite withheld some information until AFTER the matter was reported on by the media.

Vladimir Grinshpun on Twitter

Things look at bit different after reading this.

And for those unfamiliar with PlainSite, it's run by Aaron Greenspan, who has a least at one point been short Tesla (via puts, if I recall correctly).

 

[StealthP3D]

I see Walmart has a solar fire problem, and they want to blame Tesla, I don’t see where they proved it was Tesla and not vandals or employees on smoke breaks tearing stuff up.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it turns out these fires were started by one or two TSLAQ wannabees.

Did the fires occur after Tesla acquired Solar City?

In any case, it's clear that some people are trying to turn a mountain into a molehill. Lawsuits happen, Wall Street largely ignores them unless they are material. This isn't - it's just noise.

 

[Artful Dodger]

TSLA getting back from a midday low under $218 to above $220 into today's close was heartening from a technical standpoint. Round price numbers can indeed have psychological significance. The media harping on negative Tesla news appears to have motivated selling by shorts and weak longs for the greater portion of the day. Once they finished their flights, bargain hunters entered. I'd still like to see a return to the 50-day simple moving average, which is currently around $232, before sounding an all-clear.

Well, even if the SP were to stay at this level, we should have about 15 more sessions with the MA(50) rising daily (as older lower SP days drop off the MA).

So that's a tailwind of sorts until approx. Sept 12th. But as of yesterday, we have to break through the mid-BB to get to the MA(50), which may depend upon news. Addtionally (given its current trajectory), the upper-BB may come in to play at these SPs.

 

[davecolene0606]

I just sold about 21% of our TSLA shares and might end up selling more. I really, really don't like what's happening with Walmart, and I still have concerns about vehicle service communication, so I figured it's probably safest to trim back our TSLA position. We really want Tesla to succeed, and we see great potential for Tesla to disrupt multiple industries while benefiting humankind. But customer relationships, large and small, need to be better cared for.

You did exactly what they wanted you to do.

Fire Away!

 

[Zaxxon]

Did you read the document?

Of course I did.

For everyone losing their minds over Walmart v. Tesla, it turns out PlainSite withheld some information until AFTER the matter was reported on by the media.

Vladimir Grinshpun on Twitter

Things look at bit different after reading this.

Thanks. Do you have the direct source? I'd like to read them all.

In any case, it's clear that some people are trying to turn a mountain into a molehill.

You know, or the opposite.

 

[davecolene0606]

That is shitty lawyer rule #1. Good lawyers don't sue people/companies unnecessarily. And in this case, Tesla has both the responsibility and the deep pockets. The problem here is almost certainly poor install quality and maybe shitty connectors. They could sue the connector company, but why bother? Tesla has ultimate responsibility and the money. Tesla could sue the connector company if they had a substantial part in this, but my feeling is they probably would go bankrupt (the connector company).

Trina has deep pockets and they are the company that issued the recall for their connectors. The filings names Tesla as the “manufacturers” of the panels which is plain wrong. A lot of really shoddy “facts” in the filing along with a ton of redacted info that speaks to their agreements/contracts.

Fire Away!

 

[Foghat]

For everyone losing their minds over Walmart v. Tesla, it turns out PlainSite withheld some information until AFTER the matter was reported on by the media.

Vladimir Grinshpun on Twitter

Things look at bit different after reading this.

So did PlainSite redact the exhibits?

 

[Johnny Ma]

Thanks. Do you have the direct source? I'd like to read them all.

I've been looking for the direct source, myself. It seems Dana Hull was aware of Tesla's responses, but did not report on them. Dana Hull ‍ on Twitter

I'm signing off for the night, but hopefully someone can find the source. Others have, and screenshots of them are now circulating on Twitter. Of course they only came out after the damage was done.

So did PlainSite redact the exhibits?

Not redacted, but posted with a delay. Vladimir Grinshpun on Twitter

 

[abasile]

You did exactly what they wanted you to do.

That may be true, but I was already nervous about Tesla's customer relations failings. I'm now waiting to see how Tesla responds to the lawsuit. If Tesla displays a positive, conciliatory approach (regardless of whether Walmart seems to be going overboard), then there's a good chance I'll buy back the shares and/or sell more puts.

 

[dww12]

In that 100 pages did they include a fire marshall report? Did they list other SC installs that caught fire? Did they list their other stores that had solar not installed by SC that has not caught fire. I see Walmart has a solar fire problem, and they want to blame Tesla, I don’t see where they proved it was Tesla and not vandals or employees on smoke breaks tearing stuff up.

Ok, I had not read the entire 114 pages. How do I become a Walmart lawyer or consultant? The list almost $1M in fees for inspecting these sites.. to take pictures like this? How do you have $4,000,000 in lost merchandise and not take pictures of that? I’m going to inspect my Trina panels now, to look for these “hot spots”. Should I sue the installer if I find them. I guess it’s a little different if you are in a PPA. Just curious, if Walmart is so concerned about the safety of their customers (they bring it up in the suit a lot) why have they not installed metal detectors at their doors, and stopped selling bullets? 0 people have died from solar panel fires in a Walmart, not so much guns.

 

[Foghat]

I've been looking for the direct source, myself. It seems Dana Hull was aware of Tesla's responses, but did not report on them. Dana Hull ‍ on Twitter

I'm signing off for the night, but hopefully someone can find the source. Others have, and screenshots of them are now circulating on Twitter. Of course they only came out after the damage was done.



Not redacted, but posted with a delay. Vladimir Grinshpun on Twitter

In this usgov doc downloaded from plainsite, the exhibits are redacted.

gov.uscourts..654765_2019.1.0

So based on the tweet, there seems to be unredacted version?

This needs to be sourced, I noticed the screen shot of a portion of a Tesla statement/letter, but not a court document.

 

[dww12]

To be fair to the detractors on this board, Tesla hasn't yet put forth its side -- which is part of why the criticisms are being levied in the first place.

To be fair, they kinda did, it’s an exhibit in the lawsuit (251 sent on Aug. 11), but it’s redacted.