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Then Zach walked him through the balance sheet in more detail, there is a reasonable chance of flipping Einhorn.

as @Fact Checking said. the potential upside of flipping one of the prime shorts is worth some risk.

I agree mostly, with the exception that Einhorn should not be talking to Zach (Tesla CFO) - he should not receive any explanations which might risk disclosing material non-public information. He should be reading the 10-Q and 10-K like everyone else, and if he thinks it's fraud it's his problem.

I'm pretty sure that if this factory visit happens then Elon will be super careful about what he is saying and everything is going to be above board. Even a factory visit and meeting Elon is way more than Einhorn ever deserved - and the clients of Einhorn deserve getting punished financially for trusting an idiot.
 
Agreed. Elon is so convincing in direct conversation. When you see in depth interviews, or even some of his depositions to a certain extent, the level of detail he can dive into and his capacity to frame the situation from the base level assumptions and building from there is mesmerising.

I think there is a reasonable chance that if Elon showed the unicorn around the factory, detailing the technical achievements, explaining where the MY will start production in the near future, hundreds of thousands of more vehicles will be produced per year will little capex cost, etc. Then Zach walked him through the balance sheet in more detail, there is a reasonable chance of flipping Einhorn.

as @Fact Checking said. the potential upside of flipping one of the prime shorts is worth some risk.

It also would bring in an argument that the only reason people are short is because they don't understand the business. And now we have evidence of that.
But doing that would be providing unicorn with non-public (inside) information which it would be illegal for him to trade on. So legally, he'd have to stick with his short position even knowing it would kill him. While that might seem a fitting punishment, there is no way Elon is going to let him tour a part of the factory that public tours don't get, nor have a private look deeper in the books.
 
I will not speculate that David Einhorn's reaction is emotional.

It is just as possible that he is questioning Tesla and Elon Musk because he assumes that other short sellers are basing their trading on his reaction and he wants to dupe them into short selling TSLA even more, as opposed to them buying back any short sold TSLA, which would drive his own short position even more into the red.

Edit: To conclude, I read Einhorn's reaction not as a reply to Musk, but as (misleading) guidance to short sellers who look to Einhorn for trading advice.

Note that short sellers do not exist in a vacuum - there's at least one former associate of Einhorn that our own @jbcarioca convinced to (apparently) go long TSLA:

Actually I do exactly that. A good friend who manages a large fund has been discussing these points with me recently. Since he knows Einhorn well and favorably (he was in during the Lehman affair) he has followed Tesla with interest. He started buying yesterday, I surmise based on my last conversation.
A few formerly anti-TSLA acquaintances have been intrigued by the products, curious about investing, but have not committed AFAIK. Of course i do not know the actual holdings of any of them other than some long-held ones, all privately held.

I do agree that we all need to be cheerleading for the investment opportunities, perhaps more than the cars.

I hope they timed their entry in a smart fashion and gradually increased their stake from April to July, which would have put their average position cost at around $200. If they bought immediately then their entry price was around $250 - still a very good profit if they held during the lows.

(And I hope it wasn't Adam Capital, the big Brazilian hedge fund that went short TSLA... :D)

Anyway, my point is that shorts are people too, who are influenced by their own social surroundings and who are frequently teetering on the edge of going long or short a company.

"Turning" David Einhorn would be a major coup and would have ripple effects - more so than turning Jim Chanos (who is a genuine douche).
 
A few thoughts on how the pieces of Tesla’s future battery strategy will come together (based on acquisitions, press leaks, published scientific papers, patents and speculation):
  • Use relatively short term contracts for cell supply from CATL/LG/Panasonic to bridge to ramp of in-house cell production.
  • Tesla builds a huge factory to build Grohmann/Maxwells/Hibar/in-house manufacturing equipment at scale - bringing down equipment capex cost.
  • Maxwell dry electrode tech to reduce manufacturing cost and footprint.
  • Maxwell dry electrode tech leads to better physical properties, in particular allowing thicker cathodes.
  • Hibar designs systems for their electrolyte insertion IP during the cell manufacturing process.
  • Build single crystal cathodes - possibly helped by Maxwell process/other in-house R&D. This was a big part of the 1 million mile cells tested by Dahn.
  • Use very carefully selected electrolyte additives following Dahn research.
  • Highly automated manufacturing process to reduce staffing bottlenecks to production ramp.
  • Integrated cell, module, pack design and manufacturing process to simplify production, reduce footprint and reduce cost.
  • Dahn lithium metal anode allows for much thinner anode, higher energy densities and longer cathode/anode life, but at the expense of shorter electrolyte life.
  • Replaceable electrolyte design allows to replace the electrolyte and extend lithium metal anode battery life.
  • Develop Hibar machines to allow easy electrolyte replacement in service centres.
  • Dahn research is used to eliminate cobalt from the cathode leaving just Nickel Aliminium or Nickel Manganese.

Missing pieces (presumably many are happening behind the scenes):
  • Reveal other in-house cell manufacturing processes which have been developed in-house over the past 10 years.
  • Buy Panasonic’s GF1 business for cell manufacturing employee experience and other cell IP.
  • Buy out other GF1 suppliers.
  • Buy/build Cathode powder manufacturing expertise. Nanoone could be a good target if their process will help make single crystal cathodes.
  • Buy Nickel processor expertise - this will be a huge % of cell cost.
  • Buy lithium carbonate/hydroxide integrated mine/processing expertise.
  • Reduce cathode kg per kWh to reduce raw material cost
I'll note that none of this will happen at the same time. These are various steps and incremental improvements that may or may not be introduced once they have been proven ready for affordable mass manufacturing.
What if instead of buying Panasonic and short term CATL/LG contracts they did long term partnerships with all of them and shared technical IP for cells and partnered to scale up to 2 TWh annual production? Wouldn’t that put a nail in the ICE and fossil utility industry, scale up a lower margin cell business and increase margins on the higher value auto and Tesla energy business?
The fastest path to 5 million cars a year is minimize cell investment, but will require Tesla to reinvent and drive the growth. I think, based on Shanghai results, new factory production is going to accelerate. GF4 will be followed almost immediately by GF5 in the USA and GF6 in China or maybe India. Wrights law will apply with plants too. They’ll drive down the capital cost of each new plant and this machine that builds the machine business will become apparent in 2021.
 
Holy moly, the order rate is like rocket launch.

When will TMC support emoji? Using the rocket emoji would be super fitting in this occasion. :rolleyes:

T☰SLA Mania on Twitter

Latest leak shows how fast Tesla is receiving orders for Giga Shanghai Model 3

Simply mind blowing

FYI, ”新订单通知” means “New Order Notification”

View attachment 474812
Everyone likes to purchase goods produced in their own country--if they are worth purchasing.
 
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Regarding Einhorn and this "art of war" stuff.

No No and HELL NO. The man can read (I assume) and is in charge of a large pile of money. If he is not smart enough to do his due diligence then he should get what he deserves.

He deserves to be put out of business and end up selling pencil's on wall street.

Same with any other entities that lies and impedes the progress to a cleaner healthier planet.

Maybe a factory tour several years ago...maybe ....not now...put the knife in and twist it.
 
Freshly leaked layout of GF3:

gf3-layout.jpeg

I've added English labels:

gf3-layout.png

It's a very nice car factory design, it can be seen that they learned from the Sprung Tent in Fremont:
  • Note how the general assembly line runs along the building, and the loading bays are all along the assembly line: this allows direct loading of parts to sub-assemblies and the assembly line directly, simplifying material handling and reducing internal storage space required.
  • The 45° angled loading docks near the body shop (not visible on this image, but visible on the drone shots) allow heavy shipments of metal to be loaded directly at the side of the stamp shop. Since those trucks are probably close to the 30-40 tons weight limit of semi trucks, their loading bays were optimized for ease of approach and ease of unloading.
  • Also, the cars do a full circle within the factory as they get assembled: the body gets first assembled near the stamp shop, goes through the body line, then goes into the paint shop, and then starts the long journey through general assembly, which I presume takes around 70% of total assembly time.
Other observations:
  • Note the completed shape of the "battery workshop" in that render, in the top right corner. If battery packs are made there then they'd be carried over just to the end of the body shop to be "mated".
  • There's also new buildings shown at the very top right corner - it's unclear to me what they are for, but foundation works are already underway in the latest drone videos.
Edit: very interesting, the top right object is very similar to the bottom left paint shop!

My guess: that new section might be for Semi production. (!)
 
I'd like to make a post about the kind of short Chanos is. I see him mentioned at lot here, and often in a very negative way, so I'd like to share my perspective as someone who likes the kind of investing he does.

If anyone has access to an hedge fund database and could provide actual perfomance numbers for his three funds - short only, long short, 190/90 - that'd make things more clear/interesting. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of access.

I realize this post is kind of misorganized; sorry. But I think it's helpful to understand what actually happens at a fund like his. I think this is the reason it's unlikely there's any sort of short conspiracy to make the stock go down. Very few people are as concentrated as someone like Spiegel, which manages a very very small fund.

Many already know what Chanos' business model is, but some don't - not the least because promoting your hedge fund to the general public is actually illegal.

Kynikos main product is a short only fund, that typically doesn't really make any money. Making money is not actually the purpose of this fund. The purpose of this fund is to not make money while being short. This short only fund typically has a max position of 2-3% per stock. What this means is that tesla going up or down by even 30% like it has recently occurred is not actually a big deal for a fund like this. That's less than 1% up or down for the whole short portfolio.

Making no money being short only is actually a lofty goal when you consider that picking 20 stocks by throwing darts at a list and equal weighting them, you will probably do about as well as the benchmark. If you were to do that as a short seller, you'd have made -20% in 2017, -12% in 2016, -23% 2019 YTD... the list goes on.

The product that is actually designed to make money is, like many other hedge funds, a 190/90 long/short fund. That means, roughly, that if you give chanos $1M, he will short $900K worth of stuff, and go long $1.9M worth of stuff. This product is actually 100% net long, like a typical mutual fund might be - but it has 280% gross leverage. The $1.9M worth of long stuff is usually just the US market; something like just buying $1.9M worth of SPY. The short book is the aforementioned short only fund.

You can't just go long the market with a 2x leverage, because events like the great financial crisis or the dotcom bubble are going to potentially wipe your fund completely. It doesn't matter how well you do in the rest of your investing career if you have a -90% year.

But if you have a short book, what happens with events like the great financial crisis? Well, you lose a ton of money on your long side, but you also make a ton of money on your short side. You might actually have your short book perform better than just shorting the market during these periods - after all, if your short book is about breakeven when everything else goes up, when everything else goes down your short book is probably going to perform very, very well. While you're exposed about 2x to the general trend of equities going up, you're still losing around the same amount of money (or less) during these events where equities go sharply down.

Finally, what would happen if 100% of Chanos' short book was Tesla (remember, Tesla is actually a small portion of that portfolio), and as we said he was 1.9x long SPY?

upload_2019-11-9_15-24-12.png


He'd still be doing just slightly less well than holding the market. (For what is worth, the same backtest started from 2016 has him about breakeven, but again it's not representative of his actual short book).

I hope this kind of post is OK and cleared up some confusion.
 
Maybe but imagine the scenario where Einhorn was to go to Tesla, see the progress, chat in-depth with Elon and Zachary, and come away understanding his short position was only going to get worse and cover.

How would you think the market would react to that? I think it might be rather positive.

Of course he's probably too stubborn and entrenched in his beliefs to do that even when handed all the facts, but would be a very interesting development.

Wouldn't it be great if Einhorn covered and then went Long. I don't know whether he is short with shares or options and I don't know his entry point but it should be clear to him that his Short losses from the $200s to $337 rise is more than offset by Long gains from $337 to $600+,

Einhorn! flip the trade and go long!
 
Regarding Einhorn and this "art of war" stuff.

No No and HELL NO. The man can read (I assume) and is in charge of a large pile of money. If he is not smart enough to do his due diligence then he should get what he deserves.

He deserves to be put out of business and end up selling pencil's on wall street.

Same with any other entities that lies and impedes the progress to a cleaner healthier planet.

Maybe a factory tour several years ago...maybe ....not now...put the knife in and twist it.
I also would not give einhorn any tour or extra information. His business model is based on a company failing or flailing. He has targeted tesla as it seems to be very sensitive to 'news' and 'headlines'. In any tour he would be looking for ways to improve his business model which is based on false claims and innuendo. Tesla business model is making cars, not an app, not a phone, not a music service, and making cars are hard.

einhorn while painful is just a speed bump on the road for tesla becoming an energy company. As the car business stabilizes, i'm sure more focus on energy generation and distribution as well as FSD-- which is basically a form of energy distribution, tesla will enter a new stratosphere. (another unrelated analogy: at the end of the Big Short movie, it was mentioned that water was the next commodity in scarcity and food was the delivery and transport mechanism for water... So will FSD cars/buses be the conduit for energy distribution)
 
Freshly leaked layout of GF3:


I've added English labels:
It's a very nice car factory design, it can be seen that they learned from the Sprung Tent in Fremont:
  • Note how the general assembly line runs along the building, and the loading bays are all along the assembly line: this allows direct loading of parts to sub-assemblies and the assembly line directly, simplifying material handling and reducing internal storage space required.
  • The 45° angled loading docks near the body shop (not visible on this image, but visible on the drone shots) allow heavy shipments of metal to be loaded directly at the side of the stamp shop. Since those trucks are probably close to the 30-40 tons weight limit of semi trucks, their loading bays were optimized for ease of approach and ease of unloading.
  • Also, the cars do a full circle within the factory as they get assembled: the body gets first assembled near the stamp shop, goes through the body line, then goes into the paint shop, and then starts the long journey through general assembly, which I presume takes around 70% of total assembly time.
Other observations:
  • Note the completed shape of the "battery workshop" in that render, in the top right corner. If battery packs are made there then they'd be carried over just to the end of the body shop to be "mated".
  • There's also new buildings shown at the very top right corner - it's unclear to me what they are for, but foundation works are already underway in the latest drone videos.
I think there’ll be 3 car assembly buildings with one stamping system and one battery assembly building. Each supporting 5000 cars at full production. I expect phase 3, the second auto assembly building to start as soon as production hits 3000 a week in building 1. They need the battery assembly building to make local packs to build 3000+ a week. Otherwise there building with packs from Sparks.
 
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Falsely attacking companies and trying to bankrupt them? Since you're a fan I'm sure you're aware of his actions.

I just mean going short as an hedge and long with more leverage. I'm not a Chanos fan - I just know more or less how his fund works based on bits and pieces I've read. I don't know the history of what he actually shorted (apart from the fact that he's pretty vocally short Tesla, obviously).