Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Joe F]

People buying in China are not necessarily buying it to drive, but to be driven in. Think chauffeur. So having a roomy and comfortable back seat is important. I think the model Y will be a huge hit here. When I was in China on business I was normally driven in a CUV style vehicle.

Okay, but that's not something I'd think a typical family would require, given that's what @PANN stated was the appeal for family's. Perhaps it's more a status thing? Unless family's have chauffeur's?

The main difference for long wheelbase is the leg room for the back seats. Admittedly not everyone need that or like it (less sporty), but it appeal to Chinese families.

 

[Cherry Wine]

Tesla Model 3 U.S. Deliveries Dip As It Ships To Global Markets

Insideevs estimate for Tesla January Deliveries

Model 3 6500
Model S 875
Model X 950

Interesting that January deliveries of S/X were higher than January 2018 (emphasis added):

For January, we estimate the following for U.S. sales of these two Teslas:

• Tesla Model S – 875
• Tesla Model X – 950

Again, let us note that in a typical first month of any quarter, Tesla focuses a lot of effort of non-U.S. sales. These U.S. delivery estimates reflect that. And in fact, both figures are above January 2018, which had the Model S at 800 U.S. sales and the X at 700 U.S. sales.

 

[Buckminster]

Eh? Leg room has a vertical component as well as horizontal. A higher seat provides more leg room in the same horizontal distance.

Exactly - but that won't meet the Chinese requirement which I think is more to do with Limo style space in front of you - a feeling of spaciousness.

 

[Don TLR]

Don't trust Fred's article at Electrek, he gets some facts wrong. Like that the 150kW charging is currently per session as an introductory price and will then switch to per kWh billing. (not both)

Also, the first year being free is only the monthly "Basic Fee".

Is he trying to get a Free Audi as well??

 

[EVNow]

I was hoping this would bring buying opportunity! Guess I was wrong

Seriously you want SP to go down now ? You had plenty of "buying opportunities" in the last 2 weeks.

 

[AudubonB]

Isn't a flat fee per charging - as reading the above posts suggests what Audi is doing - a recipe for amassing some really furious travelers? Those who thought that rather than charging "now", I'll just use that last 20% of charge to get to the next station....Oops!

Once learned/burned, twice shy, of course. But that is not a way to endear oneself to one's car, it seems to me.

 

[Tslynk67]

Great reading. Lots of tidbits that I missed.

I read the report twice and missed some of that, need to go through it again...

 

[M3Rider]

... legroom? really? In a model 3? This is the first car I've ever driven where I didn't just put the seat back as far as I could and wish it could go further. In fact, putting it all the way back is too far. I didn't even make it all the way back. And moved the seat forward.

While ICE vehicles have restricted legroom due to the engine compartment, EV's don't have that inherent restriction and the model 3 certainly does not. I think Musk's response was fine.

My confusion here is why would they want more legroom in China, given that the average height is...cough ...smaller? List of average human height worldwide - Wikipedia

If I was a Chinese, I would have asked for less legroom and a juicy discount.

 

[humbaba]

Okay, but that's not something I'd think a typical family would require, given that's what @PANN stated was the appeal for family's. Perhaps it's more a status thing? Unless family's have chauffeur's?

Just as a follow up: I decided to try sitting behind myself (that is, the driver's seat is configured for me) and I easily fit in. It wouldn't be comfortable for a long drive, but neither my feet nor my knees touch the driver's seat.

That... that... that is just incredible! I don't fit in back seats. It isn't a matter of not liking to ride in the back, its just there's never room. Sure, it is nowhere near sufficient room in the back to be used as a chauffeur vehicle, but for a normal sedan? That's just [expletive deleted] incredible!

 

[MP3Mike]

That's expensive. E-Tron in moderate speed summer driving / slow winter driving goes about 330km (NOT Autobahn speeds) on 95kWh. Can't wait to see the "non-introductory" / "non-special pricing" for the 150kW charging The introductory pricing using the per-kWh cost makes that about €0.10/km, which for Americans works out to around $0,20/mi. Not counting the monthly fees.

How do you come up with that? First year there is no Basic Fee, and it is 8 euro per session for 150kW charging. So an 80% charge costs about 0.11 euro per kWh. While the e-tron is thirsty it isn't using 1 kWh per km. (They aren't allowed to charge by kWh yet which is why they are doing per session charges.)

 

[KarenRei]

Anyone who is betting on a new "low" anytime soon will probably be waiting for a good while, unless there's some big gotcha news.

 

[printf42]

Okay, but that's not something I'd think a typical family would require, given that's what @PANN stated was the appeal for family's. Perhaps it's more a status thing? Unless family's have chauffeur's?

Typical Chinese family have two generations live together or close by. Senior members would usually be driven by younger members, and rear seat leg room is very important because of that.

 

[KarenRei]

How do you come up with that? First year there is no Basic Fee, and it is 8 euro per session for 150kW charging. So an 80% charge costs about 0.11 euro per kWh. While the e-tron is thirsty it isn't using 1 kWh per km. (They aren't allowed to charge by kWh yet which is why they are doing per session charges.)

I was using the 0,33 euro figure quoted in the OP.

 

[MP3Mike]

Ah, ok. That’s still laughably high. The year of free “basic fee” is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Just subtract 215.4 from the price of the car. And, of course, you’re paying that 17.95 every. Single. Month. Whether you use it or not. On top of the (high but not ridiculous on its own) cost for each charge.

But you aren't required to join the Audi program to use the chargers. And Ionity is currently just charging 8 Euro per session for anyone to use them. The 17.95/month is for the convenience of having one card/bill for all the charging networks. You can go directly to each network and bypass Audi.

 

[Remus]

Seriously you want SP to go down now ? You had plenty of "buying opportunities" in the last 2 weeks.

I did load some then. But another paycheck just came.

 

[Zaxxon]

I took one for the team and checked out what Mark Spiegel is tweety-birding about this AM.

'Tezzla' isn't generating cash and is out of money: CrowPointPartners on Twitter
Demand cliff confirmed (Jan deliveries of the 3 are lower than Dec): TeslaCharts on Twitter
Discount InsideEVs numbers heavily (just prior to retweeting InsideEVs numbers as apparently trustworthy enough to illustrate the alleged demand cliff: Mark B. Spiegel on Twitter
'Libruls R Dum: Mark B. Spiegel on Twitter
Retweet of contrast between sales growth and SG&A contraction, and how this relates to customer service terribility (hey, he accidentally got one right!): Pivotal Capital on Twitter
Mark has a new policy of blocking 'teslemmings' who post 'inanities' at him (no word on when he'll self-block for extreme inanity): Mark B. Spiegel on Twitter

That takes us back one hour from present. So basically, still a denial of reality, internally-inconsistent claims, inability to abstain from including playground insults, and general tomfoolery.

 

[MP3Mike]

I was using the 0,33 euro figure quoted in the OP.

Which they aren't charging now, and may never be able to. But in any case my understanding is that residential electricity in Germany is about 0.29/kWh, so it is a minor mark-up which seems reasonable.

 

[humbaba]

My confusion here is why would they want more legroom in China, given that the average height is...cough ...smaller? List of average human height worldwide - Wikipedia

If I was a Chinese, I would have asked for less legroom and a juicy discount.

Normal sedan design allocates more space for the front seats than the back seats, its just the way it is. Tall people are generally restricted to front seat riding because of this. But if you are rich and want to be driven around by someone else, you want the back to be spacious. I get that. But it is not normal design, and the entire premise is luxury which suggests to me that if Tesla were to introduce a long wheel base version the model S would be the logical choice to start with.

And, in the meantime, Musk's suggestion of a model S (as opposed to the 3) seems appropriate to me.

 

[KarenRei]

Which they aren't charging now, and may never be able to. But in any case my understanding is that residential electricity in Germany is about 0.29/kWh, so it is a minor mark-up which seems reasonable.

Point taken - but one should add that commercial users don't pay residential rates.

 

[humbaba]

Typical Chinese family have two generations live together or close by. Senior members would usually be driven by younger members, and rear seat leg room is very important because of that.

Makes sense. We got our van at a reasonable price because the (Chinese) family purchased it for the sole purpose of the parents coming to the US to visit and the van was for spaciousness.

And the purpose of the visit was to tell them to come home, hence the turn around sale of the newly purchased van.

But no Tesla is a chauffeur vehicle, they just aren't (although they are very surprisingly roomy).