Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[printf42]

So we make a pie today?

 

[Joe F]

Re user 'adaptabl's' disagree

Who? Oh, never mind; That's one of those "show ignored" types.

 

[mongo]

Even if it's possible to apply before taking delivery, I doubt most people would think it would be possible.

Heck, I have a lot of trouble picturing an application getting approved before you've paid for the car in full.

Why not? If the subsidy is taken at time of purchase, one would expect applications to lead deliveries.

Tesla returned to German subsidies list, ending row | Reuters

Under the subsidy scheme, buyers get 4,000 euros off their all-electric vehicle purchase and 3,000 euros off plug-in hybrids.

The alternative is 10k vehicle sale in a week, per @avoigt :

Since the BAFA incentive is officially approved about 10,800 applications have been filled. Using mine as the last one a minute ago and the first one we know about right after it went public.Thats about a week BTW.

#thereisnoghostship

 

[Joe F]

So we make a pie today?


View attachment 373658

Yes, humble, spoon fed to the shorts.

 

[Buckminster]

View attachment 373650

I think Vincent made a very good suggestion, which Tesla should consider in the future, not now, but probably 2-3 years down the road.

Chinese generally prefer larger cars, but they have relatively lower income/budget, so BMW/Mercedes/Audi all made long wheelbase version (locally manufactured in China) just to appeal to the Chinese middle class.

For those not familar with the long wheelbase China version: the 3-series Li (L means Long wheelbase) has about the same leg room as standard wheelbase 5-series, and the 5-series Li has about the same leg room as 7-series. Same for Mercedes C/E class, and Audi A4/A6.

Also note China is the worldwide biggest single market for BMW 7-series and Mercedes S class, the wealthy is very small percentage of the large China population but the absolute number is very big. So Model S&X are selling very well here, especially X.

The way I see it is that in 5 years, nearly all privately owned cars (bought new) will be niche. The US will probably buck this trend but I doubt China will. Elon is building the finest fleet of autonomous taxis that will ever exist in this solar system. Extra legroom will happen as a matter of course when the front seats face backwards. Someone wanting extra legroom will likely want extra wood, champagne on ice, media in the back seat. Let Mercedes pick up those crumbs - there gonna need them to survive...

 

[MP3Mike]

This is not correct. There's already a shipment of Model 3s in Europe. We clearly missed a ship.

Nope. I think the only cars in countries right now are demo cars that were flown in. So we didn't "clearly" miss a ship. There are no customer cars yet. (They still have to get the Supercharger network updated for the Model 3 or things will go badly.)

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Agreed, it's too soon to think about Tesla complicating their lineup with all sorts of body-variants of each vehicle when they haven't even filled all major niches yet.

Couldn't agree more. Europe and Asia Model 3...Model Y...Pickup...Semi...Roadster...

I'd say they have more than enough on their plate. Remember gang, demand is NOT the problem. Let's get all these logistics of manufacture, delivery, service, etc. under control. Believe it or not, I think the company understands it's priorities pretty well.

Dan

 

[JRP3]

Extra legroom will happen as a matter of course when the front seats face backwards.

Only if they stuff your torso under the dash where your legs currently fit.

 

[PANN]

... legroom? really? In a model 3? This is the first car I've ever driven where I didn't just put the seat back as far as I could and wish it could go further. In fact, putting it all the way back is too far. I didn't even make it all the way back. And moved the seat forward.

The main difference for long wheelbase is the leg room for the back seats. Admittedly not everyone need that or like it (less sporty), but it appeal to Chinese families.

 

[KarenRei]

Why not? If the subsidy is taken at time of purchase, one would expect applications to lead deliveries.

What purchase? You haven't purchased something until you've paid for it. A non-refundable deposit is not a "purchase". That said, I'm sure that didn't stop some people for applying regardless, but I can't imagine that most people would think "I've made a deposit, so now I can apply for purchase incentives!"

#thereisnoghostship

There were plenty of pictures of trucks full of Model 3s. Whether any customer cars were among them is anything but clear, but the notion that Tesla flew them all in by plane seems nonsensical; the cost of doing that would have been astronomical. And Tesla would deserve shame from shareholders if they were shown to have engaged in such a waste of money.

But customers being among them is in no way essential. The simple issue is that the data we're looking at is for applications. Not purchases.

 

[Remus]

View attachment 373650

I think Vincent made a very good suggestion, which Tesla should consider in the future, not now, but probably 2-3 years down the road.

Chinese generally prefer larger cars, but they have relatively lower income/budget, so BMW/Mercedes/Audi all made long wheelbase version (locally manufactured in China) just to appeal to the Chinese middle class.

For those not familar with the long wheelbase China version: the 3-series Li (L means Long wheelbase) has about the same leg room as standard wheelbase 5-series, and the 5-series Li has about the same leg room as 7-series. Same for Mercedes C/E class, and Audi A4/A6.

Also note China is the worldwide biggest single market for BMW 7-series and Mercedes S class, the wealthy is very small percentage of the large China population but the absolute number is very big. So Model S&X are selling very well here, especially X.

That's the case when people prefer to sit in the back seat rather than driving. I saw a new generations of affluent young people, at least in IT industry, employees of Alibaba and Tencent, etc. prefer driving by themselves now.

 

[Remus]

The main difference for long wheelbase is the leg room for the back seats. Admittedly not everyone need that or like it (less sporty), but it appeal to Chinese families.

that should be easily fixed in Model Y

 

[humbaba]

The main difference for long wheelbase is the leg room for the back seats. Admittedly not everyone need that or like it (less sporty), but it appeal to Chinese families.

Okay, I hear you. But let me ask you: have you been in a model 3? The reason I ask is that I have quite long legs and I still don't run the model 3 all the way back. My wife isn't short (and has nice long legs herself) but sits much closer to the wheel. Before getting the model 3 this was actually a problem when switching out driving because I'd have to get in sideways and run the seat back before I could even turn to sit forward.

In other words, for most drivers there would be more space behind the driver's seat than when I'm in it. And in my case it isn't even all of the way back.

So Musk suggesting that a model S is what they should be looking at for more interior space is, I think, perfectly acceptable.

Maybe, after we have S3XY + truck + semi at full production rates, they might look into adding more variations, but that is definitely down the road.

 

[humbaba]

That's the case when people prefer to sit in the back seat rather than driving. I saw a new generations of affluent young people, at least in IT industry, employees of Alibaba and Tencent, etc. prefer driving by themselves now.

Now that makes sense. Yes, a chauffeured vehicle would not care so much about space up front, but the back should be luxurious. I think it's fair to say that the model 3 is not designed to be a chauffeur vehicle, so if that is what you want then maybe Tesla isn't an option. And I could see that being a legit part of Tesla's market segment as they started in the high end. But in my view it would fit better with the model S than the 3.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Hoooooly hell, just saw Audi’s pricing on e-Tron charging. This is the competition we’re all supposed to be worried about?

 

[KarenRei]

Hoooooly hell, just saw Audi’s pricing on e-Tron charging. This is the competition we’re all supposed to be worried about?

Haven't seen this yet. What are they charging?

Not that DC charging prices matter that much, but... it is a big energy hog, so this could be rather funny

 

[MP3Mike]

Hoooooly hell, just saw Audi’s pricing on e-Tron charging. This is the competition we’re all supposed to be worried about?

Don't trust Fred's article at Electrek, he gets some facts wrong. Like that the 150kW charging is currently per session as an introductory price and will then switch to per kWh billing. (not both)

Also, the first year being free is only the monthly "Basic Fee".

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Couldn't agree more. Europe and Asia Model 3...Model Y...Pickup...Semi...Roadster...

I'd say they have more than enough on their plate. Remember gang, demand is NOT the problem. Let's get all these logistics of manufacture, delivery, service, etc. under control. Believe it or not, I think the company understands it's priorities pretty well.

Dan

1) 3SR
1)b) Deep breath
2)a) Service
2)b) Y

 

[MP3Mike]

Haven't seen this yet. What are they charging?

Not that DC charging prices matter that much, but... it is a big energy hog, so this could be rather funny

As far as I can tell this is only pricing for in Germany: Audi e-tron Charging Service Goes On-Grid

City tariff* Transit tariff*
Basic fee €4.95/month €17.95/month
AC charging (up to 22 kW) €7.95/charging process €7.95/charging process
DC charging (up to 50 kW) €9.95/charging process €9.95/charging process
IONITY HPC (up to 150 kW) No offer Introductory price: €8.00/charging process; Special price: €0.33/kWh

* Prices valid for the German market; minimum term: 12 months. Due to the applicable legal calibration regulations, only session prices in Germany are currently possible.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Haven't seen this yet. What are they charging?

Not that DC charging prices matter that much, but... it is a big energy hog, so this could be rather funny

For access for the long distance 150kW chargers: 17.95 euros/mo + 8 euros / charging session + 0.33 euros /kWh.