Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[wipster]

Hydro-Quebec To Commercialize Glass Battery Co-Developed By John Goodenough

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“It can be glass or ceramic, but it is not a [lithium] polymer,” Zaghib said.

It can also be unicorn horn. /s

I'll believe it when I can see through it...

 

[LJS22]

Philippe Houchois of Jefferies down graded TSLA to Hold. But increased his price to $800 from $600.

That explains the after hours action

 

[Silentk]

5YJ3E7EB8LF562686

No comment.

COVFEFE

No comment

 

[MC3OZ]

How CATL Lithium-Iron-Phosphate Batteries Could Be Leading To 100 kWh Tesla Model 3 | CleanTechnica

currently CATL’s LFP batteries have reached capacities like 160 Wh/kg. For comparison, Tesla’s NMC 2170 cells made by Panasonic are somewhere around 247 Wh/kg. [Editor’s note: It appears to me from the table from “Moneyball” in this article that CATL has gotten energy density to >200 Wh/kg.]

Still not definitive, but a step in the right direction.... I'll look at the Moneyball article .. never heard of them..

EDIT:: Not that much to more to add, I can't 100% substantiate the energy density of current CATL LFP batteries....

tech.#BYD's CTP to be used on its #LFP super-battery, expected to be launched May or June 2020.
Says it increases volumetric energy density by 50%, cuts manufacturing costs by 30%.

Moneyball is a twitter feed that seems close to the action on Chinese battery developments...

 

[Artful Dodger]

After-action Report: Mon Feb 24, 2020: (Full-Day's Trading)

VWAP: $842.48
Volume: 15,249,417
Traded: $12,847,297,501.74 ( $12.85 B)

Closing SP / VWAP: 98.95%
(TSLA closed BELOW today's Avg SP)​

Comment: "MMs attacked in Euro Pre-Mkt w. 2x macros; SP to MaxPain $830"

 

[ammulder]

A heads-up:

A daily feature on some (US) Public Radio feeds is a 20-minute long podcast called "The Daily". It originates from the NYTimes, and at least today's episode featured an interview with one their business correspondents, Andrew Ross Sorkin.

This episode is not yet open for streaming but I very strongly recommend it to all participants of this thread. Although titularly dealing with Larry Fink's blockbuster essay to the world's CEOs regarding climate change from the perspective as the head of the world's largest investment firm - BlackRock - in fact the essay probed the reactions to this by three of the planet's iconic and sector-leading firms: Amazon, Microsoft and Delta Airlines.

Here, possbily hiding behind a paywall, is the paper's print version of the podcast: Can Corporations Stop Climate Change?

One way or the other, read it and consider.

I was really surprised they downplayed Amazon's response. Buying 100,000 electric delivery trucks and powering AWS with renewables is hardly small potatoes. Somehow the commentators there followed "so from Amazon this is really meaningful action, unlike Delta" with "but Amazon isn't really doing anything that makes a difference." I missed the logic that got them from A to B. Then they pointed out that of the three Microsoft has by far the least work to do, since their business doesn't rely on a fleet of carbon-emitting vehicles, and proceeded to give Microsoft big props for their impactful response to their tiny problem. I just didn't follow.

Then their Big Picture is that all the companies in the world could change and it wouldn't matter unless China changes. That doesn't pass the sniff test to me. It's not saying "this is a huge problem and we should work on this thing", it's saying "we can't make a difference so it's someone else's problem and let's you and me just Business As Usual." WTF.

Probably over in China there are a bunch of pointy heads saying "but if you add up all the big and little businesses in the world, they emit vastly more carbon than our government, so anything we do is meaningless in comparison."

Such a surprise we're all missing our climate goals.

 

[KarenRei]

How CATL Lithium-Iron-Phosphate Batteries Could Be Leading To 100 kWh Tesla Model 3 | CleanTechnica



Still not definitive, but a step in the right direction.... I'll look at the Moneyball article .. never heard of them..

EDIT:: Not that much to more to add, I can't 100% substantiate the energy density of current CATL LFP batteries....



Moneyball is a twitter feed that seems close to the action on Chinese battery developments...

The article says "aiming for" 200Wh/kg. Seems pretty clear they're describing their next-gen tech.

 

[KarenRei]

Re, the above: Guoxuan, which was described as having installed 190Wh/kg batteries in EVs: this says that their best tech in 2019 was 160Wh/kg:

https://lowemissions.solutions/static/uploads/10_Session_B_Demand_Side_Solutions_Chen_Li.pdf

Gotion (the company that produced that) is the US branch of Guoxuan.

I'm going to guess that "Guoxuan already installed 190 Wh/kg LFP cells on >400 km range vehicles, company added" refers to some sort of prototype?

Even if it is up to 200Wh/kg, though... there's no getting around the fact that the voltage on LFP is fundamentally significantly lower than on NCA / NMC; it's a basic property of the chemistry. Wh = Ah * V, so lower voltage for the same Ah is lower Wh. And as for Ah, the same sort of anodes are used for both, so Ah capacity is unchanged there, and you have electrolytes, separator membranes, electrode foils, packaging, etc in each. The only thing you can make a difference on in terms of Ah/kg is the LFP cathodes themselves vs. NMC / NCA cathodes. But it's hard to beat nickel in terms of lithium intercalation...

 

[MC3OZ]

The article says "aiming for" 200Wh/kg. Seems pretty clear they're describing their next-gen tech.

Yes, it is also from September last year but typically improvements take a few years to happen,,,

I now don't think the evidence is as strong as I previously thought.

We know CTP improves LFP and we strongly suspect Maxwell significantly improves LFP... we also know CATL and other Chinese manufacturers are working on improving LFP.

All I can definitely say is the trend is going in the right direction...

 

[ggr]

3.3M of TSLA Tesla Shares Added by Legendary Hedge Fund

Lots of people follow what the big hedge funds are doing. This one is Renaissance.

 

[capster]

I sold 10 Puts for 7/17/20 with 500SP right before close today. I will gladly buy more shares for $500 in July if we drop that low. If we drop another 20%, I will sell 400SP Puts. I have lots of core shares, and I had previously sold covered calls for March, April, June, and July for SP of 1500, 1200, 1200, 1500 respectively. As of right now, I have options that I've sold, but nothing that I've bought. We can talk about how the coronavirus is not a big deal, but if the rest of the world thinks it is a big deal, we could easily be looking at TSLA at 500 or below in a few months. I got killed with "safe" LEAPS last year, and I'm not making that mistake again.

Because of Ebola, a few years back I moved one of my 401K accounts out of whatever market fund it was in then into a non-equities position. That was a mistake.

Ultimately I converted it to an IRA and bought all TSLA with it. That was not a mistake. Though I did buy at a high price for the time so that spent more time underwater than I would have liked.

Now, there are so many cross currents with folks gaming TSLA at baseline and the Coronavirus just adds more. No offense, maybe this isn’t an accurate depiction of what you’re doing and this is more applicable to others here, but I’m baffled by the desire to stick an oar into strong currents with visible whirlpools.

I’m just going to hodl and ride this out. Yes, there might be some drama, but I personally feel that things will ultimately be fine.

 

[MC3OZ]

here's no getting around the fact that the voltage on LFP is fundamentally significantly lower than on NCA / NMC; it's a basic property of the chemistry.

I guess my question is what does that translate to in terms of the final EV?

LFP looks unsuitable for performance EVs.... but a bit of work may get it over the line for budget EVs...

If it can be made to work for budget EVs and produce a fairly good EV for a very good price, that is significant..

I'm not expecting a LFP battery to win a race against a Plaid Model S....

 

[S3XY]

5YJ3E7EB8LF562686

No comment.

Is this a VIN or your serial number?

 

[KarenRei]

I guess my question is what does that translate to in terms of the final EV?

LFP looks unsuitable for performance EVs.... but a bit of work may get it over the line for budget EVs...

If it can be made to work for budget EVs and produce a fairly good EV for a very good price, that is significant..

I'm not expecting a LFP battery to win a race against a Plaid Model S....

Power density won't be a problem. Energy density should be sufficient for SR; it just means that car will be as heavy as an LR.

Right now, it's just about letting GF3 Feed. Because GF3 Hungers for cells. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[UncaNed]

5YJ3E7EB8LF562686

No comment.

Hey! No posting your referral code on the forums!

Hey MODS???

 

[JRP3]

China's CATL unveils cell-to-pack battery platform - Xinhua | English.news.cn


I think it is true lots of very useful R&D is being done on batteries by may parties and the future looks bright for EVs and energy storage..

In that space Tesla is very well positioned for the next 5 years, and the next 5 years are where the race will be largely run and won..

That doesn't say LFP. Do you have a link that says LFP? Thanks

A CTP battery can increase the system energy density from 180 Wh/kg to more than 200 Wh/kg. At the cell level, the energy density has already reached 240 Wh/kg in 2019, and by 2024 CATL aims to increase energy density to 350 Wh/kg.

Those are definitely NMC numbers, not LiFePO4.

 

[ggr]

Hey! No posting your referral code on the forums!

Hey MODS???

Doxxing Karen's real first name ("5YJ3E7EB8LF") is not allowed on TMC.

 

[Drax7]

Philippe Houchois of Jefferies down graded TSLA to Hold. But increased his price to $800 from $600.

These are like backhanded compliments,
How conflicted are these analyst.

 

[Prunesquallor]

The Icelandic language is fascinating.

I think that's Icelandic for “ Oh, yay-a!”

 

[Bunky]

Futures are looking tasty. Hope it sticks.